Difficulties paying for camping in National Parks
Submitted: Monday, May 23, 2011 at 09:51
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Member - John and Val
In replying to an earlier thread I was reminded of some difficulty we had in paying for entry and camping in Francois
Peron NP. The fee structure was such that coins were required but after we put the payment into the envelope it wouldn't fit through the slot into the security box. Also we had to pay in advance although we may have wished to stay for more than one night depending on what we found when we arrived out at the campsites 40km away.
I"m using FPNP as an example but its not the first time that we have encountered payment options that in practice just dont work. You may not have the right notes/coins, envelopes are missing, the slot isnt big enough, you dont want to pay until you have seen the
camping area etc. Or there is a sign telling you to phone through your credit card details to a number that is unattended - from a
campsite where there is no signal.
Im not too fussed if through poor systems NPs (and other
camping area managers for that matter) miss a payment that I am otherwise happy to make. However NPs are always complaining that they are short of funds so I do think it would be good if "they" could find a system for collecting fees that actually works. One that caters not just for weekend visitors but long term travelers as
well.
Are we the only ones to have encountered this problem?
Cheers,
Val.
| J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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Reply By: Member - Troll 81 (QLD) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 09:56
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 09:56
Happened to us out near the
Sundown National park....there was a self registration desk thing but no paper to write details on...or you can call the number but we had no reception...so do you drive back 40km to pay or do you just go in?
We just went in, we tried to do the right thing but the
tools provided was not good enough.
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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 10:06
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 10:06
simple answer to that, pay by cheque .....
We had a problem years ago in WA where some had the keys to the box and most coin/notes went into pocket, and i may add it still is rife now in most parks with the cash box collection system ........
Pay by cheque and if it is legit it will show up on your statment, if it is just the normal national parks riff off scheme that is rife all over Aust then they will be to lazy to bank it and YOU have done the correct and just thing and paid for the fees as requested..... it works and works really
well
But i never told you that eh...
Cheers
"What charter boat"
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Follow Up By: Member - Michael P (QLD) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 14:18
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 14:18
Hi,Joe,Mel & kids
When I went to pay at
Mitchell Falls NP didn't have the correct money, was out by say $1.00 put the extra in the envelope. Later in the day when the
ranger called at my
camp checking names against his list as soon as I told him my name He said that He owed me change. Another
Ranger may have presumed it was a tip but???
Mike.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 15:26
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 15:26
No - not a simple answer :-)
Not everyone has cheque books and also not likely to get one, most
places do not like a cheque
Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 02:29
Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 02:29
who has a cheque book these days??
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Follow Up By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 15:54
Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 15:54
yeh good point, but i would go out and get one, i have one, i think, have not used it in years hahhaha
And yes, most
places will not take cheques, hence the reason to place it in the "collection" box and it is by the way all legit doing so as long as you have the funds in your account to cover it .... i support the fees but only if used in the right areas and if it goes in the right pockets, i have seen large amounts go where they should not be and it only hurts them in the long run, it was one (among many) of the reasons for the introduction of the NT intervention ...
Joe
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Reply By: Member - Josh- Monday, May 23, 2011 at 10:14
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 10:14
We have encountered this several times.
1. Were told by info centre could pay at the
campsite, so headed 45km out to
camp to find a phone we should call to book a site and pay by credit card. No signal so camped free for 2 nights. If
ranger had turned up we would have happily paid.
2. Got to
camp site and no envelope to put details on. Again free camped for 3 nights.
Ranger turned up the day we left so I did the right thing and went to talk to him. He said because we are leaving don't bother paying.
3. Arrived at
campsite to find a sign ring number to book. Used our sat phone to ring only to get told their computer is down and I will have to go find a
ranger. I asked where the nearest
ranger station is or for a number to ring them on. They said they don't have that info, they only book sites. Decided to
free camp again. When we got to
camp another guy camping there and been there a week already and never saw a
ranger. We stayed 4 nights and no sign of anyone.
One
ranger said they stopped using money boxes cause people would smash them and take the money so they were loosing funds. I explained they are still loosing them cause it is nearly impossible noe to actually pay the fee. "Good for you" was his reply. He basiclly said if you try to do the right thing and can't, don't worry.
Josh
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Reply By: Member - Min (NSW) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 11:22
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 11:22
It seems many of us have had the same problem - ready and willing to pay the fees but thwarted by NPs themselves. Is such cases I don't worry any more, just have the money ready if a
ranger appears or
check to see if envelopes have been replaced since our arrival.
Of course there is the other problem too - people who come in and say to other campers that they are only staying the night and will be gone early. So what! If you stay for even a few hours you are a cheat if you don't pay.
Min
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Reply By: Member - John G- Monday, May 23, 2011 at 12:46
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 12:46
G'day Folks
We've had similar issues. Maybe the NPs could have a system whereby we could ring a 1300 number once we were back in range and pay by credit card. Maybe some wouldn't pay but those of us who appreciate the facilities and opportunty to be in a NP would do the right thing. It would be interesting to see the NP balance sheets, to see how much fee collection costs, how much they get, and what percentage it is of total park running costs.
Cheers
John
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 13:49
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 13:49
Its not only national parks that have a fee collection problem , our council run and maintained c/van park loses $ bigtime , the council office which is not on site but only 750 meters away is open from 9am to 4pm weekdays and from 9am to 11am on Saturdays , fees are only $12 per night for a powered site and the 3rd night is free yet the system is abused , take this weekend as an example , a convoy of 6 ,yes 6 Ultimate camper trailers pulled in early Saturday afternoon and set up
camp , non went to the one and only pub or
shop on Saturday or on Sunday so not 1$ spent in town , all 6 packed up and gone before 7am this morning , and to top it off ,every
toilet roll taken ,
you wonder why locals call " tourists" terrorists. And yes there is plentiful signage offering alternatives for paying the fees at either the pub or the
shop.
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Follow Up By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 15:30
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 15:30
DON'T YOU JUST HATE THOSE GRUBS?
Yes a small few destroy it for most. I would have to agree they are terrorists
Cheers Tony
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Follow Up By: Member - Vince B (NSW) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 19:56
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 19:56
We saw the same thing happen last July when we camped at the
Morven Recreation ground.
The grubs came in after dark & camped
well away from the facilities & donation box.
The next morning, they were gone after using the amenities, which the local community tries to provide for travellers.
You wonder why such camps are being closed down by the authorities.
Cheers.
Vince
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Follow Up By: Roachie.kadina.sa.au - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 21:27
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 21:27
As the owner of an Ultimate Off-road Camper Trailer, I feel compelled to say that this has left a sickly taste in my mouth!
I just cannot believe (not that I'm doubting Alloy CT in any way) that people could stoop that low.
It makes me feel ashamed in some ways (but I have no reason to that I know of).
Would I be able to ask Alloy CT which small town this was please?
Cheers and please be assured that not all owners of Ultimate C/Ts are from the same mould.
Regards,
Bill Roach
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Follow Up By: Member - Rob D (NSW) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 21:30
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 21:30
Hi Alloy c/t,
Can you tell us where this occurred. I copied your post onto the Ultimate owners website. Most of the members seem to be unhappy about this incident.
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 23:40
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 23:40
Alloy c/t you don't happen to be in the south of WA do you? We went to a caravan park in a small town down there earlier this year, we were there for a week, others were coming and going but no one was paying. It is a Shire run CP but there is a number on a sign to ring which we did but went to message bank, waited a while, no reply, so went in and set up, didn't see hide nor hair of the girl who was supposed to be in charge, no cleaning or anythig, (I did some cleaning in the ablutions). Anyway to cut along story short we finished up running around town to find someone to take the money from us. I've since heard that we upset quite a little hornets nest as the girl had been putting in that she had been cleaning and collecting the fees,
well we knew she hadn't, it wasn't our intention to cause problems, we just wanted to pay what we owed, it's not like we were camping in the bush anywhere.
We always buy the annual parks pass for WA, if we go interstate we get one from there as
well, saves all those hassels.
Cheers
D
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Follow Up By: BarryR1 - Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 16:02
Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 16:02
Alloy,
are you going to address the requests of these
forum users. You've made a pretty big call there and it sounds like there are more than a couple of people who will make the appropriate enquiries within the Ultimate group for you and you've gone silent for 4 days! I think we'd all like you to put up so your claims can be substantiated and dealt with appropriately.
Hopefully you're just not checking the
forum. Will look forward to you providing some appropriate details soon.
Baz
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Reply By: ob - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 13:50
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 13:50
Yep, had the same problem a couple of years ago at
Millstream NP. A collection box at the
gate and no one around. There was a notice saying that the
Ranger would come and collect the camping fees. We put the correct money in the "honour" box ($10 admission I think) although how that was collected and administered I have no idea and for the 3 days we were there we never saw hide nor hair of any rangers and talking to others there at the time no one else had.
ob
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Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 15:32
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 15:32
It seems that we all have had this issue at some time, you would think some simple system could be set up.
Cheers Tony
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Reply By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 16:24
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 16:24
After visiting SA a few years ago, we found over there where our national parks pass allowed us to
camp so no looking for money or change. I wrote to DEC or Calm as it was then and sugested they use the same system,I sugested taking an average of the number of nights stayed per family over a month, some would loose some would win but certainly easier to manage.
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Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 16:25
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 16:25
Forgot to say they did not acknowledge my email
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Reply By: Outback Gazz - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 16:38
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 16:38
Howdy - Last year, myself and a friend ( in 2 vehicles ) were driving through a national park to get to our destination which was outside the park. The sign at
the entrance said it is $5 per vehicle to
camp in the park and a lock box provided to put your money in.
Well I'm guessing the rangers were listening to our conversation on the cb somewhere close by and went to the box to see if we paid our fees. Obviously there was no money in there so they decided to catch up with us because they must have thought we were camping there and were ripping the NPWS off.
Well it took them 1 1/2 hrs and 80 kilometres before they caught up with us ( we stopped for a beverage ) and proceeded to abuse us for not paying -
well, when they found out we weren't camping they were very apologetic, especially when they saw we had no camping equipment at all. After a very polite lecture on how much it costs to maintain a national park we offered to donate $10 each. They then apologised that they couldn't execpt the money as they didn't have a receipt book with them ! We said our farewells and they got into their $75,000 Landcruiser ute complete with 60 litre Engel in the back and returned to where they came from ! I'm guessing the $10 fee ( had we camped ) wouldn't have covered the diesel they used chasing us nor the wear and tear on the vehicle and the tyres. I now realise why it costs so much to run the parks. I have always paid my fees when required and appreciate the effort of the rangers etc but I think they could spend their money a bit more wisely !
Happy Travelling
Gazz
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Reply By: rumpig - Monday, May 23, 2011 at 18:00
Monday, May 23, 2011 at 18:00
had similar issue with Charlie Morlands
campground just North of
Brisbane.
Dirty Weekends book said it was self registration, but when you got there, there were no envelopes to do so, the rangers hut down the road was also closed so we couldn't pay there either.
i camped the night and rang the DERM number that arvo when i got
home to make my payment of $5.50 or whatever the amount was. the lady on the end of the line was surprised i was bothering and nearly said do you really want to bother, when she remembered the calls are recorded....lol
i did the right thing and paid even though i probably could have not bothered.
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Follow Up By: stoney123 - Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 08:27
Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 08:27
NSW parks seem to have it right (except remember to bring a pen!)
I think they work on a trust system, as
well it is not economical for them to drive to every
camp site every day. They do turn up at peak times, so the cost of their time and fuel is more than compensated. They even outsource some parks to locals who collect for them. The popular parks have on site managers or an office to pay as you drive in. NPWS is not for profit and it is one of the first things state govt's slash in their budgets. Also many nat parks are free. :)
Yes i have seen some backpacker vans turn up at dusk to use the showers etc, but they do that at normal c/parks as
well.
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Reply By: Member - John and Val - Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 14:49
Tuesday, May 24, 2011 at 14:49
Thanks all for your
feedback.
It seems this is not an unusual problem and although we may wish to do the right thing sometimes its just not possible. Doubtless there are some who will take advantage of any facilities provided, though I really do wonder why anyone would want to pinch
toilet paper, especially if it's the "government issue" type.
Also there does seem to be a fairly common misconception that having a "National" Parks Pass entitles you to
free camping. Not so unfortunately.
We can only hope that one day we just might get a truly "national" park system with some consistency in the rules and requirements to go with it. But I'm probably dreaming.
Cheers,
Val
| J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 16:55
Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 16:55
Val said "Also there does seem to be a fairly common misconception that having a "National" Parks Pass entitles you to
free camping. Not so unfortunately. "
The Parks Pass in SA allows camping as we checked up with that and that is the case, at least for the desert Parks Pass anyway.
Cheers
D
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 17:15
Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 17:15
Hi Dunworkin,
Thanks for posting that info - I stand (partially) corrected. You do need to select the "with camping" option when you get your pass, unless its a DP Pass. WRT Desert Parks Pass it has just streamlined the process a bit as maybe Dalhousie was the only
camping area in the DP area where a fee was collected by the
ranger? Anyway I congratulate the SA Parks for moving in this direction, but at least some other states have not followed suit.
Cheers,
Val
| J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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Follow Up By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 17:41
Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 17:41
Sorry Val, I wasn't correcting you, I was just saying that in SA we were able to
camp on our Desert Parks Pass. When we were at Dalhousie we were able to
camp on that pass as
well.
We were also stopped on the Simpson when we crossed by rangers, they were at the bottom of a sandune, lucky we had our passes.
Cheers
D
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 17:54
Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 17:54
No problem and understood DW, but its good to have your info anyway.
Cheers,
Val
| J and V
"Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted."
- Albert Einstein
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