Wheel Stud Pattern

Submitted: Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 21:58

ThreadID: 86569 Views:22160 Replies:3 FollowUps:7

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Member - Tony Z (NSW)

Hi guy's & girls,
Question is when looking at buying a Caravan/Camper Trailer, and they say Landcruiser Stud Pattern what do they mean ! - is it 6 studs and a set PCD of the studs or is it something else. We want to match Pajero 17" wheel to the Van/trailer for extra spares if required. PCD of Pajero is-139.7 with the center hole 67mm
Do all 4x4's have the same PCD ( Nissan - Toyota - Landrover - Jeep- Mitsubishi )

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Reply By: mudbro2 - Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 22:40

Thursday, May 26, 2011 at 22:40

Hi Tony Z, I believe all 6 stud patterns are the same, but not 100% positive. As far as Landcruiser stud pattern that could be either 5 or 6 stud. Early model cruisers such as 60 or 80 series have 6 stud, but 100 & 200 series have 5 stud. Phil.

AnswerID: 455579

Reply By: greydemon - Friday, May 27, 2011 at 01:27

Friday, May 27, 2011 at 01:27

Hi Tony,

I have just had enormous problems with this issue. I bought a new camper trailer which was supposed to come with wheels compatible with an NM Pajero (16"). I won't go into the whole thing but briefly they couldn't fit hubs to the trailer with the 67mm hole as those hubs would be weight limited to too low a figure. So they fitted hubs requiring wheels with a 105mm hole - so the Pajero wheels wouldn't fit. Once they sorted out the different offsets we found that it is illegal to run 105mm hole wheels on a 67mm hub, even though they will fit. This is becasue all the weight is then taken on the studs, not shared with the hub. (This was established by the Technical guys at the Deft of Transport with documentation to back up their viewpoint.

So, you need to match stud pattern, offset, and centre hole to be able to interchange legally. The key thing here is not that you are likely to get caught but that you will nullify your insurance.

Incidentally the Tyrepower agancy the trailer seller sent me to had no idea that it is illegal to run the big centre holes on the smaller hubs and the guy was doing precisely that on two of his own vehicles.

AnswerID: 455587

Follow Up By: Member - nick b - Friday, May 27, 2011 at 11:40

Friday, May 27, 2011 at 11:40

I question your tehinical block in regards to the hub taking some of the weight because if the nuts are tight then the wheel cant move and unless the rim was pressed tight onto the hub then there must be some sort of gap -not much but a gap- so the rim and hub are not realy touching unless it was taped .the only time you will see a fairly tight fit is the early landcruiser etc with the big hubs .its always been my thought that it was to locate the rim in the centre so the wheel nuts a line in the centre of the stud hole . you will see on some wheels that there is quite a gap . for the hub centre to take some of the weight it would need to be a similar in contact i would think !!!!

but if I was broken down with a flatty and the only wheel was one with a larger hole and I could fit it or walk . although the studs pattern will be the some the wheel might not fit because of brake calliper /steering arms /etc

I'm no expert of any sort just mere male .

Cheers Nick b

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FollowupID: 728512

Follow Up By: greydemon - Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:31

Friday, May 27, 2011 at 12:31

Hi Nick B, I'm not going to argue with you, I have had this discussion too many times over the last few weeks! You are probably right, but at the end of the day rules is rules. Here is one of the places the Technical guys at DoT looked at ...

Vehicle Standards Bulletin 14, section LS Tyres, rims, suspension and steering (Jan 2011)
This says in one place : " Replacement wheels must be designed for the particular hub/axle and have the same bolt/stud pitch circle diameter and the same centre location method."

They also referred to the 'Universal Tyre Fitment Guide' which says something similar - I think it refers to centre hole size rather than 'centre locatiuon method'. The bit that says 'must be designed for the particular hub/axle' is very clear - obviously a 105mm hole has NOT been designed for a 67mm hub.

The RAC in WA advised me that using the larger hole rim would not be legal or wise.

Perhaps predictably Mitsubishi state that only genuine parts should be used, which is not particularly helpful but falls in line with the DoT and the RAC.

I ended up with rims on my camper (and two spares provided with the camper) with the correct stud pattern, offset, and rolling circumference to fit the Pajero, albeit illegally, so that if I am stuck out in the desert somewhere I have the option of saying stuff the law, I want to get out of here!

The Pajero spares however cannot physically be fitted to the camper.

Nick F

FollowupID: 728520

Follow Up By: Member - nick b - Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 09:34

Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 09:34

I had a look my camper about 18 months old ,white spoke wheel . the hubs have no centre locating rim just flat to the bearing hub . landcruiser 100 front hub has like a crown type set up and hardly touches in some places .
you have to wonder some time whats going on !!!!! i guess they trying to stop any old wheel being use - off set etc -

Cheers Nick b

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FollowupID: 728592

Follow Up By: Member - Tony Z (NSW) - Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 14:56

Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 14:56

Thanks for all the replies, I have been in contact with a few Camper Trailer manufacture's that we are looking at to confirm whether I will be able to have 17" Pajero wheel fitted. Had no reply so far

FollowupID: 728619

Reply By: blown4by - Friday, May 27, 2011 at 23:24

Friday, May 27, 2011 at 23:24

I would question whether VSB14 being the Light Vehicle NCOP applies to trailers. There are plenty of boat trailers and box trailers that do not run spigot mounted wheels if you have a look around. I agree spigot mounting to the hub is preferable but on a motor vehicle you have far more loads imposed on the wheels due to steering, transmitting the drive to the road, rounding bends at speed, etc than on a trailer which just follows along being towed (or led) via an 'A' frame drawbar (hence the name "Dog Trailer"). PCD's do vary as does the stud hole diameter and the angle of the taper on the chamfered section where the nut seats. Also some chamfers are not just a straight line angle they can be "dome" shaped so you have to be sure the nuts match the taper otherwise instead of a full face contact the contact will be on a fine line and the nuts will come loose all the time. The other variable is the offset which is the amount the wheel centre disc (with the stud holes in it) is offset positively or negatively from the centre (in width) of the rim. Also when the nuts are done up tight the the angle of the chamfer centres the wheel on the hub and the hub spigot does not really carry the load, but rather assists the centralising of the wheel, because if the hub was to carry the load the wheels would have to be press fit and you would never get them off or be able to easily assemble them. On some vehicles with a bit of rust between the hub and wheel they need a good belt from behind with a gympie or sledge hammer to remove the rim/tyre.

AnswerID: 455673

Follow Up By: greydemon - Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 12:40

Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 12:40

From the introduction .....

" Publications in the Vehicle Standards Bulletin (VSB) series provide information on the design, manufacture, sale, modification, maintenance, import and repair of road vehicles.

The term "road vehicles" includes both motor vehicles and trailers. "

I don't necessarily disagree with you blwn4by but the DoT guys make and enforce the rules, and I don't particularly want my insurance nullified by a sharp eyed insurance assessor noticing that I have the wrong rims on my crashed trailer.

I believe that there are probably hundreds or even thousands of vehicles running around breaking this particular rule, certainly the Tyrepower guy I spoke to knew nothing about it and therefore had two 'illegal' vehicles of his own which were performing perfectly and have done for some time. But if something breaks, even if not directly connected to this issue, he could be in insurance trouble. I stress 'could' - the chances are that the insurance assessors don't know the rules either!

Nick

FollowupID: 728607

Follow Up By: blown4by - Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 16:12

Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 16:12

Agree with you greydemon re doing everything by the book. What State are you in? The NCOP is also about vehicle modifications only, so if your trailer was supplied with rims that the centre bore was larger than the spigot on the hub then you could not be knocked back because that was the way it was supplied and had not been modified. Check out boat trailers next time you see some. Especially the galvanised wheels with the triangle shaped holes scalloped out of them in a circular pattern. They are rated to take their design load on the studs alone. I have seen this confirmed in writing by the wheel and hub manufacturer.

FollowupID: 728626

Follow Up By: greydemon - Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 17:54

Saturday, May 28, 2011 at 17:54

I'm in WA but that doesn't matter because VSB14 is national. As shown above from the piece I copied from the introduction, it does not relate just to modification but to ....

" the design, manufacture, sale, modification, maintenance, import and repair of road vehicles. "

It is obviously not well enforced, which is fine by me.

FollowupID: 728635