inverter

Jaycar inverters are electrically isolated and safe. Many cheapies are not
http://www.jaycar.com.au

actually yes I did - but I also know that 100A for 5 minutes is:

1/12 x 1- hour so 100A for 5 minutes (say) =

approx 8.3 amp hours

ignoring inponderables

...easilly achievable with a 100 amp hor deep cycle battery I think

Geo

"I think" better do some research and then your thinking will change. You know what they say thought did - BUGGER

George, Paul's on the right track. Where are you going to get a 100 Ah battery that will tolerate 100A for 5 minutes? It's not going to be cheap and won't have a long life. And .... why a pure sine wave inverter? I can't think of any 1000W load that will demand it.

This sort of power is not easy from batteries - if you must go up this path, suggest either much more battery capacity, or, better, run the inverter direct from the alternator, (after you've fitted a bigger alternator!)

."..easilly achievable with a 100 amp hor deep cycle battery I think" No. Time for a rethink.

Cheers

John

HiJohn

RE :"This sort of power is not easy from batteries - if you must go up this path, suggest either much more battery capacity, or, better, run the inverter direct from the alternator, (after you've fitted a bigger alternator"" end quote

I think for clarity you should change to
", suggest either much more battery capacity, or, better, run the inverter direct from battery while CHARGING with the alternator [after yo've fitted a bigger alternator unless your's is 100amp plus]

I am sure you do not mean direct with no battery in circuit
Peter

Thanks Peter! Yes you are absolutely right! Post in haste, repent at leisure!...

John

Absolutely you need a battery in circuit with an automotive alternator. Would need to be a cranking battery. Alternators with no battery connected will do 1 of 3 things. Destroy themselves, produce uncontrolled voltage or produce nothing. Usually 1 & 2.

Practical size for vans and mh is 300W sine wave.
Sinergex have a well featured 300W sine wave with remote on/off.

Jeff glad you think they are as good LOL
Stick with the Jaycar Powertech inverter if you you want to be smart and alive.

Buying an inverter substantially bigger than is needed is not recommended or smart. Bigger is far from always better. Inverters are in the main most efficient between 40% and 70% load. In your case you are wasting a lot of energy powering such a large inverter at low efficiency levels.
Looking at the Projecta IP1000 which you have, the efficiency below 500W is woeful. The other issue is the IP1000 takes 1.2A to power itself prior to the high inefficiency. The Projecta IP series are a good inverter for the price, especially for casual use, as in short time, but high efficiency across the power range they don't have like all inexpensive inverters. In your case a 300W sine wave high efficiency inverter would have been a superior choice power wise. Overall you are wasting probably 50% of your power usage in inefficiency.

Interesting...I must be guilty of wasting heaps of energy as I run my old 3 way on 240 via a 2400/1200 modified sinewave inverter. Only when alt is running ,of course.
Fridge draws 150-200w maybe. Fridge works like a dream,fan rarely runs on inverter
& starter only battery seems fine after 3 years & 20k of touring. Inverter cost less than
$200, & leco BIL has dismantled it & assures me it has all the current isolation devices
installed & operating. It may well be inefficient but it sure does the job well.
cheers....oldbaz.

Hi Peter1

RE:" I then run a 240V lead from the inverter around to the 240V input to the van. : end quote.


You are BREAKING the basic safety rule for use of a fully isolated inverter or generator.!!

'Do not connect more than ONE class 1 devise AT ANY TIME"

A class 1 devise IS ONE THAT REQUIRES A 3 PIN PLUG

EACH ADDITIONAL DEVISE ENCREASES THE RISK OF A PROBLEM

YOUR van becomes that FIRST devise you, then have other class1 devises built in,[probably @ least two. fridge & house battery charger] then you start adding possibly other class 1 devises via the power points,

I hope you turn your house battery charger "off" when using the inverter.

YOUR VAN RCD will be inoperable with an isolated inverter!

Muliple class 2 [2pin plugs] devises are ok, DIRECT FROM THE INVERTER not via the van
DO NOT BE COMPLACENT
ACCIDENTS CAN HAPPEN

Peter

"Do not connect more than ONE class 1 devise AT ANY TIME" old fashioned horse manure thinking and alarmist. Considering the majority if not all the devices listed are double insulated, chances of an issue would be like winning lotto 1st division 10 times in a row.

Hi Oldbaz


RE:" leco BIL has dismantled it & assures me it has all the current isolation devices
installed & operating

I wonder just what those devises included,''current isolation devises" will not protect against electocution!!
DOES IT HAVE AN INBUIL RCD??

Peter

"modified sinewave inverter" there is no such thing as modified sinewave, it is modified squarewave.

"Inverter cost less than $200" "BIL has dismantled it & assures me it has all the current isolation devices" Your BIL must be a marvel. A 2400W square wave inverter with full electrical isolation for $200 ROFLOL No doubt an evilBay version. You can jerk some of the population some of the time but not all the population all the time. You don't need to dismantle an inverter to check if it is electrically isolated.

HI Paul
Still in form ,I SEE.

The van is not classed as double insulated , most upright fridges are not double insulated ,3way fridges not double insulated, many house battery chargers are not double insulated. the possible electric kettle , small micro wave etc are not double insulated.
If you wish to play Russian roulette fair enough .
BUT THAT IS THE STANDARD SAFETY RECOMMENDATION for the use of isolated generator generators & inverters

Do not connect more than ONE class1 devise at ANY TIME

ACCIDENTS HAVE HAPPENED


BUT perhaps you are wiser & know better than the various state electrical safety offices , Reputable generator manufacturers.
State work place health & safety offices etcs

Yes, the risk is low but the risk exists ,
, Accidents have happened, including some that have came to light on forums.


It is for each to decide what risks he wishes to take but to be aware THERE IS A RISK
YOU CANNOT DENY THAT

Peter

Hi Bill & paulnsw,
Firstly to Bill, no it doesnt have an inbuilt RCD, but it sure does have one wired to
the output between the inverter & the socket used for the fridge. Installed by my
"marvel" BIL..... & no need to S H O U T.
And to paulnsw...I bow to your superior knowledge re squarewave. The inverter
was dismantled by my "marvel" BIL leco to hardwire the RCD & attach it to the case.
At that point he commented on the inbuilt current isolating devices & tested same.
I wasnt trying to jerk any of the population but I certainly wont invoke your wrath
& indignation by responding to your posts again..cheers....oldbaz.

Sorry , Peter that should be..not Bill.....oldbaz.

G'day paulnsw & oldtrack123

Paul, I know it may be a bit of overkill, but it's better to have too much than not enough in this case. If I decide to take my 650W microwave with me as I sometimes do, I will be able to use it via the inverter instead of dragging out the gennie. Also when using the sat. TV setup it would be close to optimum load for a 600W inverter, but I accept your point.

Peter, the inverter is earthed via it's earth terminal to the van when connected and the 240V inlet goes through two RDC circuit breakers to the 240V outlets in the van. The battery charger is unplugged when the inverter is connected and the fridge is run on gas.

I only use the inverter when I bush camp and using the batteries as the only source of power. During the day the batteries are charged by solar panels and if the sun is uncooperative I disconnect inverter and run the gennie. I hope this allays your fears, but thanks anyway for your concern.

Regards,

Peter (1)

Hi Oldbaz

Re:"BIL leco to hardwire the RCD & attach it to the case."

Excellent , your Bil knew what IS required by the Aus standards for RCDs when used with generators & inverters
You can plug YOUR inverter into the van with safety, knowing that your inverter RCD & the van RCDs if fitted are fully functional.

Sorry not shouting just emphasizing important points!!

IT is allowed .& recognised


Peter

Hi Peter1


RE:"Peter, the inverter is earthed via it's earth terminal to the van when connected and the 240V inlet goes through two RDC circuit breakers to the 240V outlets in the van. The battery charger is unplugged when the inverter is connected and the fridge is run on gas.

Peter, your RCDS in the van are non functional, if your inverter is fully isolated type,

Earthing via the inverter frame point to the van chassis does not make the RCDs functional

IF it is not a fully isolated type,dump it, they can be killers

Do not be mislead by the RCDS tripping when you press the test buttons
That test only confirms the mechanism is OK

IT does not confirm that the overall system is functional.
One way to confirm is to have the operation checked by testing @ each power outlet with a tester


I did not catch you with the battery charger[smile ] but have seen some who did not understand it should be switched "off"

Peter

Thankfully I am not old and hark down tired old tracks of tired outdated dinosaurs that need an 1820mm deep hole.

"BUT THAT IS THE STANDARD SAFETY RECOMMENDATION for the use of isolated generator generators & inverters" Never ever was a safety recommendation in our state, it was an advisable under particular and specific circumstances. Take note PARTICULAR and SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES. Thankfully electrical quality and insulation, and double insulation has progressed substantially from old tired tracks some live down.

Peter 1 "If I decide to take my 650W microwave with me" A 650W microwave would use at least 900W and because it is old and probably unsafe 1,000W. Always stand at least 1.5M away from old microwaves. There is insufficient safety regard with old microwaves.

Hi Paul
Sometimes apart from when you are being obnoxious , loud mouthed ,young & brash you do @ times make some sensible posts
BUT this thread is not one of your shining hours

Are you aware that ALL States Work Place Health acts now require THAT ALL generators & inverters,now require a permanently fitted RCD.
IF double insulated is so safe as you make out why is that a requirement??
.Generators so fitted do not need the limitation of class 1 devise BECAUSE THEY HAVE FULLY Operational RCDs
I think in your ego trip you miss the point that a line to earth fault anywhere in the system, means the system is no longer isolated
IF that fault occurs in a van with no RCD then the potential for SHOCK is no different to any mains situation where no RCD is fitted
If the fan is fitted with an RCD &that fault occurs after the RCD again the van RCD will not be operational & the potential for shock is the same as any non RCD protected mains supply
WE do know that many deaths have occurred in the past with non RCD protected mains supply or are you too young to be aware of that??

THEN if you have seen the quality of workmanship in many many vans,electrical faults to earth are very likely to & have occurred.
No matter what the quality of isolation within the source,it is external faults that can become the problem
SURELYYOU DO NOT DENY THAT??
I do not say every day everyone is likely to receive a shock
A generator or inverter without a fully operational RCD can not be considered anywhere near a100% safe

THE advise still stands with a NON RCD protected generator or inverter it is recommended that only ONE class1 devise be connected @ any time
The inverter /generator is not the only source of a possible line to earth fault occurring.
THAT is why WH&S in ALL states require RCDs to be PERMANENTLY fitted TO ALL GENERATORS/Inverters

SOME stateWH&S actually have a blanket ban on inverters
UNLIKE YOU,I want people to not be complacent,But just treat with great care & realise there are risks

THAT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE THEY ARE USED.
I WILL leave it to others as to whose advice is backed by reasoning rather than attacks on age or intelligence.
Peter

Thankfully I know better and don't have to take into account your ego tripping and pompous posts. A study of state regulations would take you a long way to correct information.

HI Paul

I see you are not up to the task, of actualy explaining where my post on the dangers is wrong
Or post anything to back your claims. including state regulations
Do you deny that all states WPH&SO's require ALL generators to be fited with RCDs no matter if they were double insulated or not??
An inverter is no difference in the risk level, IS IT??


Do you also deny that people have recieved shocks & deaths have occurred with double /fully isolated power sources, generators & inverters ,when due a fault the SYSTEM WAS NO LONGER ISOLATED.

Time TO PUT UP OR SHUT UP

AS I said I will let others judge the worth of our respective posts
My ego tripping & pompus posts ,talk about the kettle calling the pot black!!

AT least I am prepared to explain my reasoning

WHEN will you explain ANY of your reasonings

You would not have posted on other forums, under a different names, in the same obnoxious manner, have you.
I THINK SO & got short shift from those on those forums.


Peter

Hi George
Looking @ your proposed use a 600watt should be ample
I would suggest that if you wish to use multiple double insulated [2pin plugs]devises, you DO NOT USE your van wiring, but use a small power board direct to the inverter
Your risks would be very very low.

Peter