Indian Ocean Misplaced

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:04
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Someone hasn't heard of the Arafura Sea?

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Reply By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:36

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:36
Actually Alan, Stuart's 1861/62 expedition reached our Northern coastline at Chambers Bay, east of where Darwin now is and probably on the Timor Sea. I don't think the Timor Sea was named at that time so they probably considered that they were at the Indian Ocean.

Perhaps someone else may have better information.

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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:45

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:45
In fact, the entry in Stuart's journal was: "I advanced a few yards on to the beach, and was gratified and delighted to behold the water of the Indian Ocean."
But it may have been himself who was geographically mistaken.

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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:55

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 21:55
Hi Allan,

Perhaps it was then taken from Stuart himself.

Or Maybe I fell into the same trap, Arafura Sea, close enough, Indian Ocean, close enough. I think the Statue was put up in 1962. Not sure when Timor Sea was named however on my wall I have an original Australian map from about 1900, Timor Sea was marked, Arafura was not.

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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:09

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:09
No Alan, the statue was unveiled on the 4th June 1904.

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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:15

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:15
Alan, the plaque in your photo was placed in 1962 on the centenary of the 1862 crossing.
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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:23

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:23
Thanks for the info Al


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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 02:33

Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 02:33
earliest records of the Arafura sea is from GW Earl's 1837 "Sailing Directions for the Arafura"
when the staue was erected is irrelevent as it relates to what the place was called at the time of the visit
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:16

Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:16
Hi

To confuse you all more the Arafura Sea appears to be part of the Pacific Ocean!!

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:17

Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:17
I would agree with that, the Pacific is east of Cape Londonary (s) in WA - and while Stuart might have said he arrived at the Arafura using modern boundaries it would now be the Timor sea
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Reply By: The Explorer - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:00

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:00
Hi

My understanding is that all the various seas (well except those that are called seas but are actually lakes) are sub-sets of the various oceans. Timor Sea, as far as I can figure, is a sub-set of the Indian Ocean. Chambers Bay faces the Timor Sea. i.e it is also part of the Indian Ocean.

So, assuming Chambers Bay was where he finished up and made the statement - no problem.

Well thats my take on it.

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Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:12

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:12
Sounds feasible Greg, could be..


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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:12

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:12
Yes Greg, I had a nagging feeling that at least some seas are actually sub-sets of oceans. Thanks for confirming that.

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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:11

Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 10:11
yeah, that's the way I've always known it.
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 20:59

Friday, Jun 24, 2011 at 20:59
Some seas aren't considered to be part of oceans: Mediterranean, Caspian, Dead Sea, and so on. But I agree that although Australia is bounded by the Coral Sea, Arafura Sea and Timor Sea, it really lies between the Pacific and Indian Oceans.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 10:44

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 10:44
Hi

Found this map - shows the Mediteranean as part of the Atlantic Ocean. Timor Sea as part of the Indian Ocean and Arafura Sea as part of the Pacific.

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Caspian Sea is considered by some to be the worlds largest lake but yes I think it is, like the Black Sea, a little big to be called a lake :) Maybe I should have said (well except those seas that look like big lakes :)

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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 10:47

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 10:47
...not so sure about the boundaries of the southern Ocean in that map?...but anyway... illustrates the point.

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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 13:05

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 13:05
Well there you go, JMDS was right all along. Thanks for the clarification Greg.


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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 13:14

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 13:14
You really started something there Alan, but it was interesting.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 20:31

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 20:31
The Explorer,

I will look up the history of the southern Ocean but I have no recollection of it even existing until fairly recently And I come from South Australia

and it certainly was never mentioned or taught at school. if it is indeed a recently named ocean it could be why it has an idefinat boundary.

Places like the far SW of WA use a suposed boundary simply as a tourist thing
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 20:34

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 20:34
Follow up,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_ocean

seems to back up my memory as it not even being a properly defined ocean or possibly one at all
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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 20:42

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 20:42
I have a ref. to the Southern Ocean:

First gazetted in the letters patent describing the Colony of Western Australia 23/10/1890 page 787. In 1913, Commonwealth maps of Australia showed the "Southern Ocean" to the south of the continent. As the Government Statistician could find no reliable reference to either the "Southern Ocean" or the "Great Southern Ocean" research was conducted in to the matter. In 1914 on the Surveyor General's suggestion, the Premier of WA approved that the ocean washing the southern coast of Australia be separated from the Indian Ocean and named the "Great Southern Ocean", he wrote to the Prime Minister requesting this alteration.In September the Prime Minister approved the name as "Southern Ocean" and noted that the Indian Ocean did not extend east of the meridian of Cape Leeuwin. In 1915 advice was received from the Governments of New Zealand and the Union of South Africa concurring with adoption of the name "Southern Ocean" and that its limits be; on the north, a line joining the southern portions of South America, Africa, Australia and New Zealand and on the southby the Antarctic Continent. (Corr 807/67 pp17-18) In 1972, following compilation by the RAN Hydrographic Office of the Nomenclature and limits of water bodies surrounding Australia, the limits of this ocean was modified to read as follows: ON THE NORTH -From Cape Leeuwin (34 22'S, 115 08'E) the southern extremity of the west coast of Australia, eastward along the high water-line to Cape Otway (38 51'S, 143 30'E), thence along a line southeast to Cape Wickam (39 35'S, 143 56'E) King Island, along the high water-line of the western coast to Stokes Point, the southern extremity of King Island, thence southeast along a line to Cape Grim (40 39'S, 144 43'E) Tasmania, south along the high water-line to south East Cape (43 39'S, 146 49'E) the southern extremity; thence southeast along a line to the southern extremity of Auckland Islands (50 55'S, 166 05'E); thence southeast along a line to latitude 53 S to longitude 180 E, from this point eastward along a line to Cape Horn (55 59'S. 67 17'W), the southern extremity of South America; east to the northern extremity of South Georgia(53 50'S, 37 50'W); thence east to Marion Island (46 54'S, 37 44'E) the southern island of the Prince Edward Islands; thence east to the northern point of Iles Crozet; thence east along a line to Cape Leeuwin, Australia.ON THE SOUTH -The coastline of the Antarctic continent.See Misc Chart 18, Limits of Ocean and Seas. File 4318/69 and 807/67 pp35.


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Follow Up By: equinox - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 21:31

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 21:31
I've dug a little deeper and found this ref. to the Indian Ocean which reinforces what Garrycol says above but does not prove it, and puts me basically back to square one.

This ocean is limited on the south, by the Southern Ocean, being a line joining the southern extremities of Africa and Cape Leeuwin of the Australian continent; on the east by the west coast of Australia from Cape Leeuwin to Cape Londonderry; on the north, by the East Indian Archipelago, a linejoining the N.W. tip of Sumatra to the southern tip of Sri Langka, the Adder Atoll and the southern limits of the Arabian Sea, and, on the west by the east coast of Africa and Madagascar.See Misc. Chart No. 18 - "Limits of Oceans and Seas".

I have nothing on the Pacific or Arafura. Enough of this research on a Saturday night. I'm off to walk the dog.

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Alan

PS: whoever has a copy of Misc. Chart No. 18 will have all the answers.

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Reply By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:24

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:24
Anyway Alan, even if Stuart tried to confuse you, did you enjoy your visit to Adelaide, my old home town?

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Follow Up By: equinox - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:30

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:30
Yes I liked it. Very historical sort of place, has all the good statues. Loved the railway station. Hadn't been since the mid-nineties.




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Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:45

Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 at 22:45
Funny thing is, I was happy to move to Queensland and be among the mountains, rivers and forests and now I'm spending a lot of time travelling to the desert regions within easy reach from Adelaide.

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Follow Up By: ozjohn0 - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 15:53

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 15:53
I'm quite happy to say he had a nice day at the beach.
OJ
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Reply By: Bazooka - Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 21:26

Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 at 21:26
If anyone ever discovers officially defined boundaries of seas or oceans I'd be very interested to get a reference. Thanks
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Follow Up By: Scooter13 - Sunday, Jun 26, 2011 at 13:00

Sunday, Jun 26, 2011 at 13:00
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/World_ocean_map.gif

Seas are a lot looser

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea
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