Patrol VS Prado

Submitted: Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:12
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Just wondering which would be best off road

Thanks
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Reply By: Gossy - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:16

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:16
remove all favourtism everyone will have and simply look at the facts and I would suggest the Patrol (removing the issue of the 3.0 diesel in the earlier models which is now fixed).

1. Larger vehicle for more storage
2. Solid axles all round. Prado does not have this.
3. Wheel travel is greater because of the above and the ability to play around with the suspension with aftermarket bits.
4. Value for money. You could argue you are paying $5K more just for the Toyota badge on all their cars.
5. Ground clearance advantage with the Patrol.

Everyone will have their own thoughts; these are just mine.

Cheers,


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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:53

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:53
Putting aside the Prado's tip over angle which I reffered to in the past - when it actually came to laying out the cash on a new model of either (in petrol - the diesels were to noisy for me in both cars) it really comes down to what the individual feels is important.

The greater fuel use of Patrol wasn't an issue for me , power of both petrols was adequate and not an issue , but the size and shape of Prado seemed to by all wrong just by a little bit in every direcioin.

I.E. it is taller by a couple of inches , narrower by a couple of inches , and with a lot of sensitive stuff closer to the ground.

We are currently using our Patrol to sleep in and the back of Prado sort of curved in a little , its not flat at all, and was definately more cramped. It had more room though at the roof line.

The real price difference was however over $8000 in favour of 4800 GU Patrol.

I note that the Patrols have again won the lowest cost of ownership stakes as published in latest RACV magazine in both Petrol and diesel variants.

The diesel 200 series again taking out the award as the most expensive car to own.











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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 23:17

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 23:17
Hi Robin

Out of curiosity when was the last time you exceeded the tip over angle of a Prado in your Nissan? Must of been a bit scary :)

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Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 07:47

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 07:47
Hi Greg

More than scary - I will refer to thread 68264 because it was an occasion on which I recovered mentally enough to take some pictures.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 11:11

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 11:11
....that thread states you were on ~35° slope. Based on limited search of internet and a somewhat suspect source (thread 60050:) 43° is tilt angle for 90 series Prado....i.e. you didnt exceed the tip over/tilt angle of a Prado (well not of the 90 series).

Are there any published tilt angle figures for 120/150 series Prados ..or is it all heresay? The 150 series is 80mm longer, 10mm wider and 15mm lower than the 120 series so I dont think you can generalise about "Prado" tilt angles like you have done in the past. Patrol would still be better no doubt but I dont think its as much an issue as you make out.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 11:33

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 11:33
Greg , you surprise me , you should know by now that when I make statements they can be backed up.

You have read from my thread that the car came to a stop at 35 degrees - before it stops the stopping force which is applied through the lower wheels causes a rotation effect ands tilts car further before settling back as stated.

The Prado and Patrol tilt angles are not controversial and they are printed on the back of car companies brochures in countires that require more disclosure to customers.

The 150 series is still 42 degrees apparently because it has more mass higher up.

Attached is 2002 data image the 90 series are worse.

Image Could Not Be Found






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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:01

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:01
No worries - still doubt you went past 42°/43° but maybe you did - wasnt there. My understanding is that anything past about 30° is getting real scary.

Wasnt really disputing the TA figures (what ever they are and if they exist or not) - they were always going to be less than the Patrol. Its more the interpretation of their degree of significance to 99.999% of people out in the real world. As stated, my personal opinion (and thats all it is) is that its not as big an issue (i.e. 5 or 6° lower TA) as its made out to be by some, but I could be wrong. Obvioulsy in some rare circumstances it will be the difference between going over an not. Maybe the circumstances are not as rare as I think they are - keep in mind I live in a relatively flat part of WA and dont deliberately seek out 4WD challenges:)

Wonder what all the figures are for all the other 4WDs makes and models?

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:20

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:20
I think you would have more of a chance of the wheels falling of a Patrol then tipping a Prado over.

I know what I would sooner have.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:47

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:47
Hi Greg

Racv used to provide those figures for all tested 4wd until they couldn't afford Pucapunyal (haven't got time to spell that) fees. They ranged from troppies 39 to Patrol 48 , whereas most Commordores etc exceed 50.

They did this because that its the single biggest factor in 4wd accidents and deaths, and a mandatory specification now in USA.

The Prado is simply a fine car with a weakness (as is my Patrol but in a different way).

If people know about these things in advance they have a chance to take preventative action and that makes me happy.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:58

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 12:58
Greetings

Yes well my point is that its not a "weakness" its simply a specification that is less than some other vehicles. Even 4WDs with higher TA will tip over - so as you say its just a case of knowing "about these things in advance ....take preventative action". This applies to Patrol drivers as well, but they can be slightly more care free in extreme conditions:)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Tim - Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 05:10

Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 05:10
You need to look at your research figures a little closer. The prado has more ground clearence then patrol, its in the stats, whilst its only 10mm, its still 10mm.
The size difference is quite small also, while the prado may not look as big the numbers are very close. What you do get for the prado is more power and torque, bigger fuel tanks, the same size front track and wheel base and it even comes with 6 gears.
The extra $5k you pay "just for the badge" is also the extra $$$ you get when you sell it because toyota have a high resale value then most other vehicles on the market.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 07:53

Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 07:53
Hi Tim

My 2002 Patrol has 185kw - which Prado has that ?
My 2002 Patrol has 420nm - which Prado has that ?
My 2002 Patrol even has 380nm of torque down low at 1000RPM !
My 2002 Patrol has 2970mm wheelbase - which Prado has that ?

Where on earth do you get those track figures from Patrols are 1605/1625nm
the Prado had 1505/1525 (and thats in the wider wheel GXL) for the 90 series and increased a bit giong to 120 but still in 1500's even in latest variants, this
figure is basically why they don't perform well in side slopes.

You are doing better with that wonderful feature they had with the original 159lt fuel tanks which went to 180lt and now reduced to 150lt.

I wouldn't mention ground clearance to much though , but on average they did have 10mm more this is because my Patrol has a giant 264mm diff and solid cast housing as lowest point and which Prado wouldn't love to have that.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 08:04

Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 08:04
Whoops I like to be fair - if you go to the new 150 series Prado it has 202kw at high revs but loses out on low down torque as a result.
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 11:17

Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 11:17
Robin

The GX 150 Prado has 1605 mm F/R track. Other models have 1585 mm. Something to do with a different rim offset on the GX to compensate for narrower tyres.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 16:14

Sunday, Jul 03, 2011 at 16:14
Hi GReg

Yep agreed , I have been using data up to 2004 as per posters question.

But I always found it interesting that in 150 series that the cheaper GX has wider track , one could probably use this to advantage and specify wider wheels than standard and still be legal.
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Reply By: 3.0turbob - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:46

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:46
A stock standard Prado in our club had traction control fitted as standard, road tyres, and easily kept up with the locked Patrols and 'Cruisers. The others without lift and lockers struggled. I was impressed!
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Reply By: Rob! - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 14:30

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 14:30
james,

What are the results of your "pajero vs pathfinder vs grand cherokee" and "Challenger vs Pathfinder" threads.

If you give some feedback on what why you are now changing your mind you might get responses better suited to your needs. Otherwise people will think you're just a troll.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 18:57

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 18:57
oh you poor innocent lamb.

jimbo a troll?????? LOL

only 23/7

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Reply By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 15:14

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 15:14
Which is best off road?
Beach, Bush, Dirt, Sand Mud, Wet, Dry,
What is the car used for?
How many people in the car.

What are you hoping to get out of this post?
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 15:45

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 15:45
I agree.

To climb knarlie offroad I would have the Patrol but outback desert cruising I would have the Prado.

The patrol is built like a truck and rides like a truck - the Prado is more refined and would be more comfortable.

Personally I would have neither and would prefer my Range Rover Sport TDV6. Much more capable and refined than both.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Gossy - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 16:12

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 16:12
When it's working.......
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Follow Up By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 16:15

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 16:15
I think you two gents have just found the point of the post.
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 18:46

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 18:46
Gossy - what do you mean??
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Follow Up By: Gossy - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 09:18

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 09:18
no offence, the TDV6 is a beast with alot of capability. I'm just a traditionalist and not a big fan of all the electronics on the new cars. Great for a few years but if the modern vehicles are truly used for what they are capable of they will be a nightmare to own around the 10yr mark.

Example would be driving roads like the Gibb River with it's corrugations or the Cape York with it's water crossings. What does that do long term to the fancy headlight motors that turn the lights for corners, powerfold mirrors, leather interiors, reverse cameras, parking sensors etc.

Range Rovers are not alone but I just can't see this all working if the car is used for what it's purpose it long term. The first owner should have many happy years with these vehicles but 2nd and 3rd owners will become broke and suicidal...
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 11:02

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 11:02
Hi Gossy - no offence taken this is a forum is a place to discuss and put points of view.

The points you make about electronics are more myth than reality - sure they do occur just as my brothers brand new Toyota V8 Diesel Ute has broken down on every trip he has been on.

Maybe we need to go back to a horse and buggy. - oh by the way mine does not have turning headlights, powerfold mirrors, reverse cameras but it does have leather - very nice thankyou and reverse parking sensors.

Cheers

Garry
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 19:16

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 19:16
looks like ole gossy has run out of uninformed cheap shots at the RR/LR


must admit, I've gone over to the dark side (Prado) since there's no bugger around where I live that can work on anything other than Ford/Holden/Yota/Nissan
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Reply By: olcoolone - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 16:51

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 16:51
What do you call off road.

In extreme off road driving that may relate to less then 3% of off road driving the Patrol would win hands down and for the remaining 97% the Prado would be just as good or if not better.

The Prado would walk over the Patrol for in terms of handling, stability and comfort in normal off and on road conditions.

They are both built strong and capability comes down to driver in most cases.

So what do you call "off road".


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Reply By: Member - Matt M - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 17:27

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 17:27
James G1 = Jim Best? Just an excuse to get the best off road link in a thread? That's a joke BTW, not a serious suggestion.

James, as others have said, you need to provide a bit more information on what you will be doing. As a Prado owner, the answer is (I think) that the Patrol is a better off road vehicle. But if you are mainly touring with some lighter off road (dirt) use, then the Prado a bit more refined.

Depends on what you want to do with it.

Cheers (sorry Jim),

Matt.
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Follow Up By: rags - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 19:05

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 19:05
Matt I think you have cracked the code in the words Best Soft Toad or similar

But with the words Prado and Patrol and which is best we are always guranteed to get the same responses like watch out for the Prado as it may rollover on you one day [14 years later and 2 prado i still am yet to have one fall over on me but i have rolled a 3tonne excavater with a far better rollover angle] and then the Patrol are better as it has 2 solid axles but be sure to get the 4" lift and 33" tyres and then twin diff locks and then you can tear up any track, tree or rock.
James if you where serious in your search for the best for YOUR needs then get on the different forums like Pradopoint or Patrol forum or whatever 4wd forum you maybe interested in research find out about real life problems and experiences and then you maybe in a better situation to decide on which is better for you.
If you really only wanted to know what car is a best suit for your drawers then give out a few samples for the punters here to try!
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Reply By: Crackles - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 20:27

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 20:27
After riding in the back of a Patrol yesterday all I can say is what a noisy, rough uncomfortable truck they are. Considering the vast majority of four wheel driving in Oz is of an easy to intermediate standard with allot of transit driving then the Prado is the best off road vehicle between the two for Australian conditions.
Cheers Craig.
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 07:51

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 07:51
I hope that wasn't a 4800 Gu you where in Craig.
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Follow Up By: Crackles - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 09:00

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 09:00
No. Just the 3Litre.
Cheers Craig..........
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Reply By: James G1 - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 21:23

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 21:23
By the way Rob I'm not a "troll" my mate wanted to know which would b best out of the 2 so I am asking it for him. And sorry guys about the lack of info but he wants the 1999 to 2005 model for patrol and the 1998 to 2004 prado

Sorry guys
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 23:31

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 23:31
Depends on what model prado hes looking at, the 95 series (first of them here in Aus) started in 97 to 02 then the 120 started till 09, You have put down 98 to 04, two totally different shaped vehicles, And dont be fooled the prado's cant keep up with some of the bigger boys, no they wont keep up with lets say an 80 series or GQ GU patrol with 4 to 6 inch lifts, lockers front and back and so forth but with a few mods they are still extremly capable, this clip is of a slightly modified prado, general 2 inch lift, some decent rubber and a locker, it did it witth ease compared to the patrol that tried it but the patrol didnt have a locker, he got through it but with some more right boot and some serious wheel spinning the prado walked through it as you can see. its not extreme but just to show that a prado is more capable off road then some people think...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BwsYyrmX-0
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 23:33

Thursday, Jun 30, 2011 at 23:33
Forgot to mention, as you can see in the clip he still had his roof top tent on top and his rear cargo area was also loaded, didnt end up on its side !!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 14:36

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 14:36
""started in 97"" was 96, sorry
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Follow Up By: Member - Mark E (VIC) - Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 19:54

Friday, Jul 01, 2011 at 19:54
Huh, there was a perfectly good track around those holes...terrible driving I thought ;-)

Cheers,

Mark
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Reply By: Member - Jason B (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 02, 2011 at 17:26

Saturday, Jul 02, 2011 at 17:26
Mate


In my opinion I would go for the Prado. It is a little smaller, but in my opinion is much, much more refined than a Patrol. I have had 2 x Nissan Patrol ST 3.0lt Turbo Diesels and they were very capable off road, but they were noisy, gutless below 3000 RPM, the clutch is a fuse in real 4wd situations, they both had quality after market suspension and accessories, the ride was choppy and harsh. They were not comfortable to eat up the vast miles of this country. The 3lt also was very oridinary when towing a trailer with any weight in it.

I have since had 2 x Prado GXL's (120) TD's and found them to be quite capable off road, they are softer in the front suspension and for serious off road work it needs to be upgraded as it has a dendancy to bottom out. The Prado is much quieter, much much more comfortable and a joy to travel long distances in. The single rear door is a pain in the backside when you have a trailer on etc. The engine isn't a hand grenade like the 3.0lt nissan is also.

Regards

Jas
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