About to buy diesel 4WD

Submitted: Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:27
ThreadID: 87705 Views:7370 Replies:13 FollowUps:24
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Hi my wife and are about to buy a used diesel 4WD. my wife could not choose between Mitsubishi or Nissan. I have convinced her we should buy a Navarra but since she agreed I have been told horror stories about Navarras ie the D40 is made in Spain and suffers with electrical problems. I am an auto electrician by trade and this worries me as I have retired and do not want to have to constantly fix my own vehicle. Does any one know if the D40 is made in Spain.
Regards Jim K

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Reply By: Puma1 - Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:41

Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:41
G'day Jim. The STX and the STX550 are the only ones built in Spain. I just bought a STX 550 and the lights are still working as are all the other electrics - lucky me!
I beleive the others ST etc are built in Indonesia (somewhere around there) so careful you don't buy a bomb:-)
Cheers Nigel
AnswerID: 460553

Reply By: dazren - Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:47

Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:47
Gidday Jim, YES they are made in spain, but that does not mean much nowadays, just about every make of vehicles gets some models made in other countries, but they are still good vehicles, i have just bought a new Colarado and they are made in Thailand, if you go into REDBOOK.COM.AU your can get all relevant information on all vehicles, i know a few people with Navara's they seem to like them, but not happy with warranty back-up and apparently spare parts are not kept in any great range meaning you can wait 6 weeks for delivery, I did drive one, very nice, but ! not for me !! Dazren
AnswerID: 460556

Follow Up By: Puma1 - Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:55

Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 22:55
must have been an Electrical problem
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Follow Up By: Dough Boy - Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 23:47

Thursday, Jul 21, 2011 at 23:47
Hi there
Nissan had built a brand new plant in Taiwan , I know the D22 model is now made there and I thought the D40 was now as well . You can always check if the vehicle comes with twin batteries , it was made inTaiwan as the government there demands local manufacturing and they dont make a battery big enough to crank so they just put 2 off them in !
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Follow Up By: John G10 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 11:07

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 11:07
Why did you pick Colarado over Ranger,D max.
I am doing a similar exercise and looking at all options

Thanks johng10
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Follow Up By: coley62 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 13:50

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 13:50
Hi Doughnut Boy

is that a fact about the new d22 as to why they come with twin batteries.
Seems silly. How do they go.

FollowupID: 734294

Follow Up By: coley62 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 13:52

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 13:52
Hi Dough Boy

sorry, put in the wrong name before, thinking of someone else when i typed your name.

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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:14

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:14
I understand that the Navaras that are sold in Australia are manufactured in either Spain or Thailand........

D40 Dual cab ST and STX and STX550 - Made in Spain
D40 - King Cab and other variants - Made in Thailand
D22 - Made in Thailand
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Reply By: Bigfish - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 04:56

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 04:56
Only posting what I have seen first hand. Three navaras owned by govt section here in town. 70% bitumen and 30% off road work. All three flex between cab and ute tray. You can see the rust/crease marks on cabin. Possible chassis flex. NOT driven like weekend racers cars neither. I was looking at possibly buying a navara. This certainly steered me away from them.
Just an honest observation.
AnswerID: 460560

Follow Up By: patsproule - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 05:14

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 05:14
My brother-in-law has had a D40 for about 4 years and has had plenty of issues including multiple DPF problems, shut downs to Limp mode on the freeway, blew a rear diff, broken spring retainers and a few others. The Mitsu and D40 are very different vehicles. Have you driven both?
FollowupID: 734257

Reply By: Member - Heather MG NSW - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 07:31

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 07:31
Hi Jim,

We have a 2007 D40 STX Navara. Have had a couple of issues with it - timing chain problem at 60,000 kms and just a few days ago (at 120,000 kms) had new ball joints replaced. Both were covered under Nissan warranty (we bought the extended warranty 3 yr/50,000 km just before the 3 yrs was us) so we have first hand knowledge that Nissan does honour the warranty if the vehicle has been regularly serviced since new and Nissan products and parts are used in servicing.

I am not sure whether the whole vehicle is built in Spain but the parts for the timing chain were and we waited nearly three weeks to have one sent to Geraldton in WA where the problem occurred a couple of yrs ago.

Haven't had any electrical problems with it. Have used it to tow our 2 1/2 tonne van extensively around both on and off the dirt for close to 80,000 kms now. Its a bit thirsty when towing and the fuel tank is small - 80 litres - so we carry extra diesel (40 litres) when travelling the less populated roads. You never know when a dreaded head wind will spring up!

Hope this helps you,


Of all the paths you take in life, make sure a few of them are dirt. John Muir

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AnswerID: 460568

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:33

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:33
Heather - I reckon the best and most beneficial piece of after market kit I fitted to my D40 was the 160ltr Opposite Lock long range fuel tank. Throws the fuel gauge out a bit - the need doesn't move until you've done about 400km but all good after that for some reason. Half full means you still have 80 ltrs left and when the light comes on there is 23 ltrs left in the tank.
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Reply By: Notso - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 07:34

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 07:34
Just luuurve that Triton!

I must admit though, going to a 2.5 from the 3.2 diesel was a backward step, even though they have more power and torque.

My 3.2 has been a dream to own, had it almost 5 years now and not a single issue.

Use it as a tow vehicle 70% of the time, economical, plenty of power.
AnswerID: 460569

Follow Up By: Member - Shane D (QLD) - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:15

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:15
Why was it a backward step going from the 3.2 to 2.5 if you don't mind me asking

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Follow Up By: Notso - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:20

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:20
I don't really know but I just like the thought of the few extra cubic centimetres.

There have been no real problems with the 2.5 as far as I know.
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Reply By: stevie1947 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:39

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:39
I have a 2009 R51 Pathfinder which is basically the same car as the D40 and I luv it. I have only done 60,000km, mostly towing a 2 1/2 t caravan, but I have not had any issues to date and have not heard of any electrical problems. All makes have some problems thru their lifetime.
Check out the D40 forum.
Make sure you buy one with a a good service history.

Enjoy whatever you buy.
AnswerID: 460577

Reply By: deserter - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:40

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 09:40
I would be concerned with Nissan's woeful record for after sales service.
AnswerID: 460578

Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:35

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:35
All have there fair share if issues, some minor, some major and some very isolated.

There are known issues with both brands but then again it is hard to find the truth.... Look at Hilux D4D and injector issues and according to the internet every one has a problem but the truth is less then 1% of 70000+ sold have an issue.

Navara's breaking chassis rails is another commonly mentioned issue on the net... and again only a handful used under hard conditions have failed.

Most people who say they wouldn't buy brand XXXX because they break such and such usually have never owned one and the ones who have or do own them have never had the problem.

But like most things they are all built to a price.... Navara and Triton are cheaper then a Hilux or Amarok for a reason and they show.... the urban myth of there more expensive one the manufacture/dealer make more money out of.
AnswerID: 460601

Reply By: TerraFirma - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:56

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 12:56
The 2.5 Navara is no comparison to the D40 Engine or the older 3.0 Litre design. The timing chain issue is quite common, 2 of my mates have had theirs done. I haven't driven the Triton so I can't comment on that, the 5 Year Warranty is a huge selling feature imo. Made in Spain is irrelevant, the Hilux is made in Thailand, who cares. It's the brand that controls the quality, design and service of the vehicle, factory is not the issue. Either would be a fair choice, personally I would buy the Hilux. LOL
AnswerID: 460603

Reply By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:09

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:09
The later Nissans have Clutch / Flywheel problems also problem with DPF Filter regeneration in the Diesel. This is problem with many of the vehicles that have mass damper flywheels.
I would not buy a modern diesel vehicle with Euro 4 specifications as our fuel is not up to scratch and there are too many problems with fuel contamination with the CDI

Just my opinion

AnswerID: 460619

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:34

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:34
Sorry Wayne B but our diesel is certainly up to scratch...it is at least equal to that of Europe. The main problem we have in Aus is that the retailers storage facilities are not up to scratch but this is improving every day. I try to fill at a station that has a high diesel turnover and never just after a tanker has been doing a fuel drop.
FollowupID: 734307

Follow Up By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 20:36

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 20:36

Yes I agree the performance of the latest engines is fantastic. Its just our fuel outside the big cities is not what it should be.
Many of the country outlets have BIO fuel. A big NO NO for the modern engine.

I see many blocked injectors and stuffed pumps with the CDI engines.

However you cant knock em for get up and go and the economy is great.

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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 21:03

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 21:03
I often wonder about that statement Patrol22,

never, after a tanker has made a fuel drop

unless your there at the same time as the tanker and can see the tanker, but, when it has unloaded its fuel, it doesn't stay there, it goes back to depot to refill

so your driving along, pull into service station, do you run up to the window and ask, Did a tanker just leave? Just because the servo is empty doesn't mean a tanker has not been there in the past 15 mins.

So, how long should you wait for the new fuel to stabilise before refilling your vehicle?

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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 21:49

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 21:49
Maybe another urban myth?

The number of CRD with stuffed pumps and injectors are properly less then the non CRD ones and the number of CRD's on the road far exceed the non CRD vehicles.

Our diesel is as good as the rest of the world and contamination is few and far between.

Same as Waeco's fridges and Cooper tyre's have more issues the other brands.... is it because they sell more?

Wayne what do you do in the automotive mechanical industry?
FollowupID: 734350

Follow Up By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 12:48

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 12:48
I am an automotive inspector with a Gov department that deals with automotive complaints both New and Used Vehicles.
I am a Automotive engineer by trade.

I agree the numbers of CDI fuel system failures are a low percentage of the total vehicles sold however I see enough to start me thinking. Up till a few years ago European companies like Renault ect with their high performance Diesel engines would not sell them into Australia because of our poor fuel quality.

To say the modern CDI engine is not suspect to fuel contamination is like saying the 3lt Patrol did not have a piston problem or the Kia Carnival never had an engine problem or that the mass damper flywheel is a great invention.

The old systems on the HJ80 etc could pass Gaul stones and still keep running.

Its the cost of fixing the bloody things that is the real problem.

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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:20

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:20
Yep agree Wayne....but I remember when we had no starter motor failures before those new fangled electric self starter systems came into vogue as well. And you are right re Renault et al not selling into the Australian market but that was years ago and before we adopted the European standard for diesel....of 50ppm of particulate mater and ultra low sulphur. Like everything the technology moves on and we better get used to it. The low sulphur diesel will more than likely have an adverse affect on the older engines as this diminishes the lubricating quality of the fuel and the older engines were engineered for that particular standard.
FollowupID: 734399

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:30

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:30
You're probably right re the tanker thing OutBack Wanderers but I try to fill my car at the same station and I know when the tanker deliveries are at this particular servo. When in foreign part I usually put the first 15-20 ltrs from the pump through the Mr Funnel Filter I carry with me....if all clear...I'll finish filling direct from the pump....if not all clear...I finish filling through the filter. Can be a PITA but it works for me. As an aero engineer I know what dirty fuel can do to pumps and other fuel system parts - especially with the close tolerances things are being manufactured to today.
FollowupID: 734402

Follow Up By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 24, 2011 at 21:23

Sunday, Jul 24, 2011 at 21:23
I had a guy who complained that his new Motorcycle did not have a kick starter.
I asked him what type of car he drove "A Commodore he said, Why"
I asked him if that came with a crank handle??. He just smiled and said fair enough.
FollowupID: 734499

Reply By: Patrol22 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:29

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:29
I know there are a lot of he said/she said, my mate has one or my mate's mate has one etc comments out there but my personal experience with my 2008 Automatic 2.5crdi D40, fitted with a huge amount of aftermarket stuff for touring, has been nothing short of exceptional. I've crossed Australia twice...one of those was from Steep Point in WA to Cape Byron in NSW....straight through the middle. Apart from the two recalls (bonnet and alloy wheels), and the usual recommended servicing I've not spent anything on it and nor has it broken down....ever. It performs very well off road but I do have a 50mm lift, full underbody protection plates, a 160ltr long range fuel tank, an arb air locker, steel bull bar and warn xd9000 winch. Interestingly, I've not had to use any of these extras but I wouldn't go off the bitumen without underbody protection....there's a few radiators (water, transmission, intercooler) that are a little too exposed for my liking.

There is plenty of power (128kw and 403nm in my model) and the newer 2.5 has even more. The STX550 will simply blow you away. Comfort of a car and the cabin space is huge. All in all having now driven my 65000km I am more than happy with my decision to go for the D40.

I would recommend, however, if you do go down this path that you buy and automatic if you intend towing. This holds true for ALL the modern dual cab utes as the dual mass flywheel set up in these models just don't seem to be able to deal with the different driving styles of people - especially as you need to slip the clutch a little when off the turbo to get moving on inclines when towing.
AnswerID: 460623

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:31

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 17:31
I should also point out that most of the DPF problems happen simply because people don't read their handbook and follow the directions......it ain't rocket science.
FollowupID: 734305

Follow Up By: Member - Wayne B (NSW) - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 20:46

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 20:46
You are correct again with the DPF filter certain driving conditions have to be achieved for the DPF to regenerate.

As for the mass damper flywheels these are a problem not only on 4by4. They are a problem in the family car as well. Many have been changed back to the solid flywheel. A little more gearbox noise noticeable at low speed low rpm.

Problem with the mass flywheel is that you cant machine it and it has to be replaced at great expense.

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Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:24

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 13:24
While I personally wouldn't refit a machined dual mass flywheel to a vehicle of mine, I do know that there are workshops out there that are now machining them. I replace the set up in my 1998 2.8tdi GU Patrol with and Exeddy HD solid mass flywheel and clutch - you can certainly feel the change in NVH but the clutch operation overall was much better both for towing and off road.
FollowupID: 734400

Reply By: Member - Jason B (NSW) - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 20:59

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 20:59
Mate by the sounds of this buy a Hilux or a Prado and be done with it...........
AnswerID: 460651

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 00:21

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 00:21
Spoken like a true Yotaphile Jason....but unfortunately if you go over to pradopoint or newhilux forums you will see that these too have more than their fair share of problems. I believe most of the problems come about for two main reasons:

1. People simply don't take the time to read and understand the vehicle handbook, and

2. Most of the issue you read about are relating to modern diesel engined vehicles and this too can, IMHO, largely be related to the fact that some people just don't understand that you need to drive these differently.....even the new crdi engines....especially those where off the turbo say <1700-1800 rpm are quite asthmatic....and this is just about all those hooked up to a manual transmission.
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Follow Up By: Member - Jason B (NSW) - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 09:09

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 09:09
I agree mate all new TD engines are very reliant on good quality diesel. And yes I have preference for Toyota for reasons of personal experience. I use Nissan's also and they have many design points that are better than Toyota which can be quite bland (and bloody expensive for what you get).

We currently have 9 vehicles in our fleet, these are all replaced every 70,000k. Currently we have 6 Nissan Patrol 3.0l TD cab chassis fitted with Obieco (Telstra type) Pods, and 2 Toyota work mate V8 TD cab chassis fitted with the same Pods. Apart from the obvious power advantage the Toyota's are just much more reliable in the off road conditions we use them in. I have herd of all horror stories about the V8 and the alternator etc getting wet and packing it when repatedly being exposed to river crossings but none of these issues have occurred to us.

The Nissan's on the other hand all have to have their clutch replaced before the 700000k mark, they have always let us down with a clutch failure in off road difficult conditions (Sand, boggy ares atc) Nissan acknowledges to us that the clutch is designed as a fuse to protect the engine and drive line and that they are an issue when used in difficult off road conditions, and they don't give us warranty for them (one failed at 23,000k) Also when the clutches fail they damage the fly wheel which must be replaced and cost us about 3k for clutch and fly wheel replacement. (We now factor this expense into their running costs) (and yes all of our drivers are experienced 4x4 drivers who have done many courses and have 10+ years of ecperience or more)

We have just purchased 2 brand new patrols and one of those has had the spigot bearing fail in the bush, causing the the gear box to seize (get stuck in gear) this required a flat bed tow 400k to the nearest dealer (This vehicle has done 4000km). When Nissan looked at it they acknowledged that they had a number of these fail and may consider a recall (we have a second vehicle of similar age and KM's).

The Toyota's have required nothing other than routine service and maintenance.

I acknowledge that the Nissan's are a more comfortable vehicle, have nicer features and ride better, but the Toyota's, stop and tow better and don't have the reliability issues.

This is from my personal experience and why I tend to favour Toyota products when spending my own money.

Vehicle number 9 in the fleet is a Nissan X-trail TD and it is a fantastic little vehicle that punches way above its weight for towing ability and comfort.


FollowupID: 734376

Reply By: rocco2010 - Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 22:45

Friday, Jul 22, 2011 at 22:45

Just back from a trip along the Anne Beadell, Connie Sue and Gunbarrel highways. . One of our group had an auto Navara king cab tray top (which I believe are made in Thailand) . Great car he says, and it perfomed faultlessly but he was disgruntled about the fuel consumption. He was reaching for the jerry can a long way before me in my Ford Ranger even with the benefit of a bigger tank. When I was researching mu purchase a couple of years ago fuel consumption was an issue with some auto Navara owners and I have now seen it first hand.

Just some food for thought


AnswerID: 460661

Follow Up By: Patrol22 - Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 09:14

Saturday, Jul 23, 2011 at 09:14
Agree with you on that one Rocco - the autos are a tad too thirsty for my liking. Over the 65000km + I've had mine I've averaged 14.5 LPH but that includes significant time in desert sands, high country climbing etc and my car is heave. I fitted a huge amount of after market gear and I also drive around with tank full for the most part. I know I probably could get better milage being defueled to some extent and not carrying water in the onboard tank all the time...but hey it is only money eh :-(.
Being an aero engineer I don't particularly like running fuel tanks low for extended periods - especially with diesel as it allows too much opportunity for condensation and if this gets bad enough then there is too much chance of Cladosporium resinae and Aspergillus fumigatus (aka diesel bug) growing in the water diesel interface.
My D40 has an ARB canopy, air locker, aftermarket suspension, underbody bash plates, water watch, 160 ltr long range tank, ORS storage system, 2x105AH aux batteries, rock sliders/sill protectors, HD tow kit, steel bull bar, HD9000 winch, 70ltr stainless water tank and other odds and sods so it is much heavier than originally intended when the fuel consumption figures were calculated by the factory.
I will be doing some work once the warranty expires to block the egr and replace the DPF (with a ChipIt DPF delete pipe) - might also fit a chip - and hopefully this will see an improvement in my fuel consumption. But to be fair for usual running I get 12.5 LPH around town, 13 LPH on the highway (go figure), and 14.5 - 15.5 when towing my 1.5 tonne camper.
FollowupID: 734377

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