I don't like to winge....but

Submitted: Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 18:30
ThreadID: 8831 Views:2728 Replies:19 FollowUps:35
This Thread has been Archived
This is the e-mail I sent to my local ARB dealer, ARB head office and Safari.
I'm not happy with the service from my local ARB rep.

Mark,

As you are aware, I recently had a couple of jobs carried out at your Suburban 4WD workshop, on my '98 V8 Discovery. One of these jobs was the installation of a Safari snorkel. After picking my vehicle up from your workshop and arriving home, I noticed that the rubber duct between the air temperature sensor and the intake manifold had come off at the temp sensor end.

Your operating hours meant that I would not have been able to return the vehicle in time for repairs by Suburban 4WD. I therefore attempted to re-attach the duct myself. During this process, I discovered that the duct, although having been cut to the manufacturer's specification, seemed too short. To make things worse, the clamp fitted by your staff would not tighten sufficiently to hold the hose. As a result, I purchased another clamp and carried out temporary repairs. When I returned the vehicle to your workshop to have the job corrected, I was informed that ARB would not fix the problem because I had carried out emergency repairs.

To date, all discussions with you have failed to resolve the problem to my satisfaction. I feel that your offer to share the cost of a replacement duct is a token gesture. Had the job been carried out correctly in the first place, I would not have found myself in a position of having to carry out repairs myself. Placing blame on the manufacturer's instructions, in relation to cutting the duct, is an issue between you and Safari. As a customer, I paid your business, Suburban 4WD, money to have a specific job carried out. At the end of the day, I did not receive what I had paid for. My disappointment is made worse by the fact that I selected your workshop, not based on price, but rather on the impression that your business, proudly displaying the ARB logo, would provide excellent back-up and customer service.

The other work which was done at the same time, was the installation of a dual battery system. Having booked my vehicle in, weeks in advance, I was told the whole job would take only 1 day unless something went drastically wrong. My vehicle was with you for 2 full days, enough time I'm told, to do both jobs 3 times over, yet you still managed to botch the job.

On top of the this problem I have issues with the quality of workmanship from your workshop. I had mentioned these to you, for you to consider along with the duct problem, but they seemed to get brushed aside. For your benefit I will list them again;

* The hose clamp that was to hold the rubber duct onto the intake temp sensor was damaged and would not fully tighten.

* The coil was repositioned in such a manner that the air filter could not be accessed. i.e.:- the catch wouldn't open because the coil was in the way.

* The coil was bolted on top of the wheel arch with a wiring loom stuck between the 2 surfaces.

* I was told I would have to relocate the car jack. Unfortunately the hook and pile (velcro) tape and bracket that previously held it in place was found next to the wiring loom, under the coil bracket, with a newly drilled hole through it.

* The positive lead from the new auxiliary battery was positioned where it stopped the air cleaner from being opened. The same as with the coil except on the diagonally opposite corner.

* There are 2 rubber blanking grommets in the bottom of the air cleaner, that block holes of approximately 20mm diameter. One of these had not been fitted, thus leaving a 20mm hole at a point lower than that of the original intake. Why have a snorkel?

* A small diameter breather hose that normally runs between the air cleaner and the engine was was not fitted to the air cleaner, but found tucked away under the washer tank.

These may seem like trivial things, but the reason I was willing to pay $1371.00 was to get a professional job done on my vehicle. I consider these problems to be extremely unprofessional.

Considering my interest in 4WDing, I feel obligated to inform other 4WD owners of my experience with Suburban 4WD at Minchinbury N.S.W. A process I have already started.

It has been my intention for some time now, to have a bullbar and winch fitted to my vehicle. You need not concern yourself with this however, I will be purchasing them from TJM.

Mark, I feel you have done your business and the ARB name a serious disservice. If you have any questions or concerns over this matter, please do not hesitate in contacting me.

Regards,

Barry.
Back Expand Un-Read 0 Moderator

Reply By: Member - Eskimo - Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 18:45

Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 18:45
go to your local court house and slap a pink? slip on them for any money you spend getting it fixed to a industry standard...not yours unless they were specificallly advised by you what you wanted.

This usually gets action.
yep it cost money but if your right it justs gets added to billWow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
AnswerID: 38832

Reply By: GaryInOz (Vic) - Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 20:54

Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 20:54
Do nothing further until you have taken heaps of photos of the workmanship and emailed copies to ARB Head Office. Photographic evidence is hard to escape....
AnswerID: 38837

Reply By: BJ42turbo - Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 21:09

Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 21:09
Very valid whinge I reckon................Dazz
AnswerID: 38839

Reply By: Tiger - Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 22:22

Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 22:22
The best place to go is the Dept. of consumer affairs in your respective state and lodge a complaint. A phone call from them will have the repairer jumping
AnswerID: 38843

Reply By: Chris (W.A.) - Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 23:44

Friday, Nov 28, 2003 at 23:44
That's disgusting for ARB, send the bloke this website and postID and tell him just where he stands with us now!!!
He should be sacked and sent to a budget auto shop to fit cheap crap. Nice southerly coastal fishing trip someday.
Chris
AnswerID: 38851

Reply By: Rob H - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 00:23

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 00:23
Go get em Barry

just a note of caution though. I'm not a lawyer, but I'd say publishing stuff like this in a public forum could be considered defamatory. If it all goes legal, they could consider countersuing for damage to their reputation etc, however justified your complaint (which it sounds to be).

I'd go the consumer affairs route myself. Right up their street, less cost to you than court, but very likely to get it sorted.

AnswerID: 38856

Follow Up By: Member- Rox - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:46

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:46
But Bary owns the copy rite to his words (email) that he sent, doesn't He???I don't save My daylight
0
FollowupID: 82764

Follow Up By: Rob H - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:52

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:52
Whether he has copyright or not doesn't stop something being defamatory. Anyway, judging by Sub XJ's response below, sounds like takng it legal would only achieve one thing, and that's making lawyers richer - something we could all do well to avoid.

Do I sound cynical at all?
0
FollowupID: 82765

Follow Up By: G.T. - Monday, Dec 08, 2003 at 18:08

Monday, Dec 08, 2003 at 18:08
My dictionary says that `Defame` means to take away or to destroy the good fame or reputation of: to speak evil of :to charge falsely: Has Barry done any of the afore mentioned ? or has he just told the truth!
Regards G.T.
0
FollowupID: 257348

Reply By: cokeaddict - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 01:57

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 01:57
well done Barry,
I cant believe what they did. Imagine if you had no idea and went througha deep river, who would be responsible for the repairs? I can tell you they would fight it as long as they could meanwhile u dont have a working car.

I thought I'd go into the ARB site and send a letter in support of your claim. Had tos end it through the "Enquiry's" section ..here is what I wrote.

No inquiry, Just wanted to inform you that i have just read a copy of an email sent to a Mark at head office regarding Bodgy installations of snorkel and dual batteries to a 98 Discovery, with not much in the way of support from yourselves. Glad I read this now, I was about to book my car in for a air Locker, but i wont be dealing with you now. Your reputation no longer exists for me after that letter i read. And I will pass the word on To my fellow club members.

Hope you didnt mind my move, I get pretty annoyed when this happens, so if it helps then its well worth it. And dont worry about any legal defamatory action taken against you mate, Thats the last thing they want is knowing that we the ppublic 4wd'ers wuld spread the word. Would hurt them too much to attempt it.

Thats my opinion, I welcome others AngeloI love it when you take DIRTY !
AnswerID: 38858

Follow Up By: SUB XJ - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 09:37

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 09:37
Barry

Suprisingly you have failed to mention some of the efforts SUBURBAN4WD made with relation to the rectification to your problem and have some major concerns.

FACT:
We where never given the opportunity to rectify your any of your said issues with the accessory fitment, you elected to attempt to resolve the issue independently without returning the vehicle to the Vendor for a warranty claim.

FACT:
When the vehicle was retuned the air hose in question was torn and repaired with duct tape. The vehicle was not in this condition when it left the workshop and was damaged post fitment in your said repair, additionally another hose clamp was used implying that the hose clamp was defective - again we where not given the opertunity to replace the clamp. Was the other clamp correct ? did it damage the hose ? did you damage the host fitting it ? there are all unkonwns.

FACT:
When we discussed option for repair SUBURBAN4WD was offered to go 50/50 in replacement of the hose even though we did not tear the hose in the installation process. Your response was “Do not worry about it” you did not indicate at all that this offer was not satisfactory to yourself - yet you do in public posting.

FACT:
Posting of opinion with out supporting facts is defamatory and will be actioned upon. It also seems unfortunate that you feel the need to post comments on the internet other than tack issue up directly.

We further invite you to take the matter to consumer affairs for action as our actions during this entire matter have been in line with trade practices codes. Additionally ARB was consulted during this matter and due to the fact recommended the 50/50 course of action.

SUBURBAN4WD warrant any of the products we supply and install for the specified warranty period but cannot be held responsible for customers actions post installation.

It is also disapointing to see what people will believe at face value without hearing the other side of the story. And will also send dafamatory support letters without supporting fact.

Local 4WD Shops spend considerable time and money suporting the local 4WD community - it is of great concern that this support is not returned.
0
FollowupID: 82713

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 10:11

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 10:11
I love hearing both sides of the story!!

Welcome Sub XJ... ;)
0
FollowupID: 82715

Follow Up By: Michael - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 11:20

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 11:20
C'mon bazza, how about another reply!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0
FollowupID: 82721

Follow Up By: JohnH - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 14:59

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 14:59
SubXJ, You didn't mention that the job wasn't done right to start with. One would think that if it was all in order there would have been no need for the 'punter' to undertake his own repairs! There are always two sides to the story I know, but personally I would expect that if I paid a premium price for a job, then I personally would not expect to have to carry out extra repairs myself. You can't make everyone happy I know, it's just that some people are particular about their vehicles and expect the best result when they trust someone to undertake repairs.
0
FollowupID: 82723

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 15:49

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 15:49
John.. I'll bite on taht one about not being done right.

Everyone on earth makes mistakes once in a while... Fertilizer happens.

and there is this bit... Winging without even giving the place a chance?

"
FACT:
We were never given the opportunity to rectify your any of your said issues with the accessory fitment, you elected to attempt to resolve the issue independently without returning the vehicle to the Vendor for a warranty claim. "
0
FollowupID: 82728

Follow Up By: howesy - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 16:07

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 16:07
Hey there sub.
I have worked in the motor industry also ( now on easy street) and what you say is correct. The customer is supposed to give you the opportunity to make goog the job on the tube and should emergency repairs need to be undertaken they should have been carried out by a licensed person or NRMA road service. he erred in his approach in this matter and you are within your rights to walk away, however goodwill and customer relations normally had me fixing it along with a stern assurance of my non obligation.

Having said that however!!

I would dearly love to see you address all the other issues raised including his claims of sub standard workmanship in the fitment of other goods and were you prepared to make good on the placement of equipment in the engine bay that restricted access to to air filter and was he informed fully of how the equipment fitment would impose on access to other areas.

I'm not trying to have a go but after reading both replies I feel that perhaps there is still only half the story and if you were going to bother replying then why not address all the issues otherwise just go to mediation without causing yourself and the customer furtheraggrivation and upset.
0
FollowupID: 82731

Follow Up By: howesy - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 16:12

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 16:12
P.S.
Any job I reluctantly fixed for a difficult customer I will admit that next time they came to me I tended to overquote hoping that freedom of choice would have them go elsewhere. It usually works. (It's quite acceptable to do a job on quote)
0
FollowupID: 82733

Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 08:40

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 08:40
Sorry , but I think you are way out of line

your quote

It is also disapointing to see what people will believe at face value without hearing the other side of the story. And will also send dafamatory support letters without supporting fact.

Local 4WD Shops spend considerable time and money suporting the local 4WD community - it is of great concern that this support is not returned.

I think you need to get off your high horse and type in the word ARB on the forum search , I think you will be suprissed how offten ARB gets supported withought getting the other side of the story . So all us foruites are equally dissupointed in you for not doing your home work also Venus Bay
0
FollowupID: 82779

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 10:16

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 10:16
Eric,

are you saying Suburban is in the wrong?I think he did the right thing in replying to the post..

I think its wrong that the bloke didnt take it back to give shop chance to sort out the issue.. People make mistakes.. , but then as you see in Mad Dogs reply below, that someone is telling bollox...

I for one am happy to have seen the other side to the story.

Suburban is a 4wd shop, he sponsors trucks and competes in Tuff Truck Challanges, so knows his bleep ...
0
FollowupID: 82785

Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 10:50

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 10:50
NO , I dont think they did the wrong thing . I havent seen the vehicle , and I havent , heard th whole story . I was only upset with there statement that I quoted in relation to the responses from people in the forum . There quick to critisise peoples reaction before reserching how we respond to these matters .

I will give SUB XJ my opinionin these matters. Every time I faced these issues in my workshops , I never won anything when it came to trivial matters like this . It seams like a big complaint about a small issue . For the sake of a hose clamp , some rubber hose and 1 Hr of your time , you have upset a customer . In casses like this , I have found it better to fix it than argue ,whis is right is irelavent . I am sure it costs you thousands every year in advertising & sponsorship, yet we wont spend $100 to keep a customer happy . It goes down to the marketing rule . If you are happy with the service of someone , you will tell 3 people . If you are unhappy , you will tell atleast 9 . ( you do the math )

Please do not take it that I am telling you how to run your buisness . Nor do I want you to think that I beleive your customer to be correct . It is a simple rule of numbers . We sometimes concentrate to hard on the fact that we are correct , and not enough on the reason we are in business .

I must say it is sad that people do not sit down face to face and discuss a problem , they find it easyer to air there dirty laundry in public , I know we all have a right to speak , and forums are here for discussion , but if you put the same effort that you have in comunicating with SUB in the first place , I dont beleive it would have come to this .

I hope I dont offend anyone , I am only here to offer a opinion , Venus Bay
0
FollowupID: 82788

Follow Up By: Brian - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 11:38

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 11:38
Fact: Why was the Job not done correctly in the first place?????

NO EXCUSE

Just why I do all my own work why pay some clown $1400 to stuff up a job, when i can do the same for nothing!!!!!!
0
FollowupID: 82794

Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:00

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:00
Fact:
we dont know what the facts are!
its all heresay to us!Wow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
0
FollowupID: 82798

Follow Up By: bruce.h (WA) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:27

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:27
Gday all
i have to agree with eric the cost of not fixxing this job has just blown the cost of fixing it out the window, agian not telling you how to run your business but our business has been running since 1975 with several customers having been with us since we opened=. the reason they are still with us is that if a problem arises we fix it then sit down & work out a solution to the problem of who pays .sometimes that may meen fixing a problem that is not entirely our fault yes it may cost a few extra $$ but the customer goes away happy not only do they come back for their next job which you can then pick up your losses on but they send their freinds as well so you pick up more work,making a profit in business is not always about making a $$ on every job. one customer i had afew troubles with in the begining turned into a contract worth thousands of $$ 2 years latter.
sub xj cop it sweet on this one & see how much good will it gets you the rewards might just be worth more $$ than you will loose fixing the problem
0
FollowupID: 82801

Follow Up By: howesy - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 16:31

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 16:31
Just so we don't get cunfused here.
I do not necessarily believe or support either party in this issue except in that I find it interesting that the repairer chose not to do a full repair for the goodwill and also chose only to address one issue of the complaint when there were several areas of concern raised.
I also accept that customers will misrepresent situations on a frequent basis however that is not to say that this is one of those.
As a repairer you get crack pots trying to scam you for repairs to things that they are responsible for all the time and it is frustrating. But is not up to us to determine who is right and who is wrong or even if there is blame on both sides.
I simply pass comment on an observation that only half a complaint was addressed and wondered why a goodwill repair wasn't done. Like I said if a customer turns out to be a problem you can always over quote him out to another business at least if they are silly enough to go ahead with an overpriced job then you have a good margin to work with.
Opinions are just that and I only ever take for gospel what I know for fact In cases such as this you never know who is right and it is best sorted beween the two parties or by the M.V.R.I.C who incidently you will get referred to if you contact fair trading.
My thoughts only and I hope no one takes offence. A good Xmas to you all.
0
FollowupID: 82808

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:09

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:09
Brian posted this followup

Fact: Why was the Job not done correctly in the first place?????

NO EXCUSE

Just why I do all my own work why pay some clown $1400 to stuff up a job, when i can do the same for nothing!!!!!!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Brian,
Even doing work yourself you have never nuffed something up? Think about it, everyone has, doesnt matter who you are, where you are, or who or how much you pay, he may have doen 100,000 jobs in the past and not stuffed one, nuffing 1 up is only human, not giving the shop a chance to repair it or talking to them before posting it on the internet, is stupid..

There are also somethings you cant do yourself, so you have no option but to pay.. if this bloke could have done it himself he would have, but had to pay for the work... The bloke made a mistake. FERTILIZER HAPPENS... but not given a chance to fix it? or even a phone call to say hey you phukt up?

Hope he has a good lawyer.
0
FollowupID: 82823

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:27

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:27
Barry, good to see that below you got some action, and that it was to your satisfaction...and Sub XJ I am impressed that you replied to the post ana didn't take the opportunity to bag Barry in your reply. Reading down theres some risk in simply agreeing to any "repairs" that may be necessary after a "dodgy" job. Everyone makes mistakes and in my experience ARB has been extremely up front in responding to customers concerns - you can't say yes to everyone, there are actually some who want to take advantage - but it could have been made easier for Barry to get the action he required.

Simple message is, IF you arent happy with the work then tell them on the day, don't say its OK and then email them or bag them online. Ifd you can't tell them on the day call them ASAP and indicate your intention to rectify with duct-tape fencing wire whatever, but keep the poor installer in the picture. Good on Ya Sub XJ for having the testemonials to reply in open forum and as the T-Man says "Welcome to the site"Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
0
FollowupID: 82825

Follow Up By: Brian - Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:46

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 11:46
Truckster I have made heaps of Stuff ups...Heaps but I never charged myself $1400 for the privilege.You Take your 4X4 to a SPECIALIST to have a job done you expect the job to be done right the first time.
And if you read the orignal post the the air cleaner, wasn't, that in my book is not just a stuff up what company recogmends unfiltered air ????

"When I returned the vehicle to your workshop to have the job corrected, I was informed that ARB would not fix the problem because I had carried out emergency repairs" this seams to indicate the they were given the opportunity to correct the problem but did not take it!

It is a worring trend that people will pay laywers $1000's rather than a few bucks to resolve a problem.

Just my thoughts
Brian
0
FollowupID: 82855

Reply By: Member - Les & Clare - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 11:18

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 11:18
There is always 2 sides to the story and it was good to hear the other sides version of events. I think cool heads need to prevail on both sides and both parties need to sit down and discuss this in a cool calm manner and try to leave the emotion out of it. Both parties need to try and reach a solution that is acceptable to each other.

Les
Have beast - will travel!
AnswerID: 38874

Reply By: StephenF - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 17:13

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 17:13
Well, I hope those of you who jumped in and made grand proclamations before hearing both sides of the story now feel like fools.
AnswerID: 38888

Follow Up By: Member- Rox - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:57

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:57
Well I don't feel like a fool cause theres other damage that can hapen like, was the air filtered or not and if not would it cause damage to the engine?
What about QUALITY ASURANCE?
what if Bary was due to go on a trip the next day and NEEDED to make the repaires as he couldn't get back to the shop in a hurry! I don't save My daylight
0
FollowupID: 82767

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:29

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:29
What do fools feel like??? I picture something akin to jelly with a velour cover?Laterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
0
FollowupID: 82826

Reply By: Member - DOZER- Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 17:47

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 17:47
Barry now that you have had your winge, repeat after me....
I must check the work of others b4 i pay....it may be substandard. and dont try to fix it myself- i may be made a scapegoat!
Fact: to keep the public and boss happy, the poor mechanic may be working on 3 cars at once with a phone in his right hand and a broom...you know where. Last time this happened to me i got no satisfaction either....had good air conditioning, but the rad fell into the fan....no hold down bolts!
Fancy being told 50/50 to something that should have been right the first time! FWIW I wouldnt go back either.
Andrew


wheredayathinkwer mike?
AnswerID: 38893

Reply By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 19:09

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 19:09
Quote Barry B:

When I returned the vehicle to your workshop to have the job corrected, I was informed that ARB would not fix the problem because I had carried out emergency repairs.

Quote SUB XJ:

We where never given the opportunity to rectify your any of your said issues with the accessory fitment, you elected to attempt to resolve the issue independently without returning the vehicle to the Vendor for a warranty claim.
I may be mad but I'm not crazy
Hooroo
Ray
AnswerID: 38900

Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 21:02

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 21:02
Yup!

Thats what I meant on the Glad to hear both sides... Something is fubar in this story...
0
FollowupID: 82748

Follow Up By: JohnH - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:20

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:20
The customer is 'nearly' always right.
0
FollowupID: 82760

Reply By: Groove - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 22:35

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 22:35
Its all well and good to say you were not given a chance to repair what was done wrong but if a 4wd specialist cant fit a snorkel without needing a second go to get it right then why bother going to a so called specialist. Its not rocket science.

It is so hard to get anything done right these days, nobody has standards anymore.
AnswerID: 38912

Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 22:49

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 22:49
I do Grove old mate, I still take pride in everything i do..especially if its to do with my car or friends cars. I just like to know that its done right first time.I love it when you take DIRTY !
0
FollowupID: 82759

Follow Up By: Cobra - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 00:42

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 00:42
It is nice to see both sides of the story. How many are tarred and feathered without a right of reply, or even worse, without knowing they have been.
0
FollowupID: 82772

Reply By: Member - Melissa - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 02:49

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 02:49
Barry/Sub XJ,

I've been reading this post with interest and agree that there are two sides to every story. I sympathise with Barry because there is nothing worse that paying good money for a job to be done and being let down. However, I also appreciate Suburban4WD's position as well.

The crux of the problem seems to be that ARB say they weren't given an opportunity to assess or rectify the original problem therefore they can't entirely be sure it was a problem of their making or its extent. Basically, their stance is that Barry should not have attempted emergency repairs.

My observations are this:

1) Barry states he could not bring the vehicle back because ARB was closed. Presumably apart from carrying out emergency repairs (either himself or a third party) his only option was to be left without a vehicle for whatever period of time. Whilst to some, this may not be too much of an issue, for others this option is totally unacceptable and ARB should be more flexible in their attitude, especially considering the relatively minor nature of repairs in question.
2) ARB have perhaps lost sight of the original reason Barry carried out the repairs...they were needed! ARB's argument that they never saw the original problem and therefore can't be sure doesn't hold much water because at the end of the day, what reasonable person, having paid good money for a professional installation, feels a need to make emergency repairs unless there was indeed a problem. Secondly, the other problems Barry mentioned all point to a poorly done job.
3) The main problem is a relatively minor one. A bit of ducting and a hose clamp. Surely for what it would cost ARB to rectify the problem, a show of goodwill on their part would have gone a long way to diffusing the disappointment and discontent on Barry's part. I've been on the firing line enough to know that "the customer is always right" line is definitely not always the case, but sometimes it just makes plain good business sense to accept it, swallow your misgivings and get on with rectifying whatever the problem may be. Surely this is one of those times!

Let's hope both parties can come to a satisfactory outcome.

:o) MelissaPetrol 4.5L GU Patrol &
Camprite TL8 offroad camper
http://members.westnet.com.au/flatdog
AnswerID: 38931

Reply By: Member - Paul T- Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 09:22

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 09:22
Just to add my ten cents worth

After weeks of agonsing I decided to fit a cargo barrier to my 100 TD Cruiser, not yet 12 months old (next month is its birthday).

The reason for my slowness in making the decisison is the fact that holes needed to be drilled in the body to accommodate the barrier, and I have read to many horror stories of things going wrong and holes being drilled in the wrong places.

Anywho in good faith off to the 4X4 shop and had it fitted.

On picking up the vehicle the workshop forman pointed out a hole which had been mistakenly drilled in the internal lining by the young guy doing the job.

On taking a deep breath I said OK mistakes happen lets leave it at that. I alos didn't want the young bloke in jeopardy of losing his job as he already felt pretty bad. Then I noticed a missing grommett from one of the grab handles which had been taken out during the fittment. We all had a look around, gone missing can't be found, oh well we will order another one for you, end of story, no way.

Yesterday, which admittedly is around 5 weeks after the installation, I was washing the truck when guess what, here are these protrusions through the outside of the turret paint work, four off them, three on the left and one on the right percisley aligning with the cargo barrier fittings. I hadn't noticed them before as I haven't had a chance to wash the vehicle and while I inspect the vehicle daily for tyres, oil water etc I don't inspect the paint work unless I am washing it.

Self tapping screws used to fit the barrier are almost protruding through the turret. Had I have written this yesterday the language would have been somewhat more colourful.

I have contacted the company by phone and they have advised me to bring the truck over for assessment and whether it is something they are responsible for.

So first thing Monday, over I will go.

The point: Regardless of whether they agree to repair it or not, the workshop has been absolutely negligent in my opinion in carrying out their job. They have in my opinion allowed a young inexperienced guy to do the job with a minimum of supervison and here is the result. Also the value of my vehicle is now effected, regardless of the repair. Also it is my work vehicle, so I will be incovenienced with the thing of the road for any repairs. ( I am not sure but I expect the whole turret may need to be resprayed after the repairs. I hope I am wrong)

Am I an angry, absolutely, do I want to advertise to the world, yes. But I will wait and see what their response is.

If the response is in the negative they will need to take out some insurance on going broke, because I will yell loud and long and in public, I will name them and publish the facts in the local newspaper.

Somewhat annoyed. You betPT
AnswerID: 38944

Follow Up By: hoyks - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 10:44

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 10:44
The dents probably aren't from self-tapping screws but from the large diameter drill grabbing as it cuts through the sheet metal and pulling through until it hits something. Same end result though. This can definitely be a trap for young players.
0
FollowupID: 82787

Follow Up By: Member - Eskimo - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:09

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:09
they are insured for negligence...
hire a car while yours is off the road at their expense. Ask first ...if they have a good customer relationship management plan they wont objectWow! am I cute
If yer ain't fishing, Yer ain't livin
Richard
0
FollowupID: 82799

Follow Up By: Mixo - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:12

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:12
Exactly the same thing happened to my turret on the 99TD Jack - only one drill bit bump though - and from an experienced freelance/mobile installer - result ? Got a quote from an RAA accredited panel shop - cost ? $350 to repair to top industry standard ! The installer paid up prior to the job.... after giving up on the idea that a mate of his could do it ! Lesson for me ? Pay for pro work and expect pro work....if you need to discuss warranty issues, do that at pro level too!Why I am here looking at this screen ?
0
FollowupID: 82800

Follow Up By: hoyks - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 19:53

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 19:53
That's why I fitted my barrier myself, saves allot of compo problems and if I stuff up, I just give myself a slapping. Fitting a barrier isn't too hard, but I fix planes for a living, so it is all relative.
0
FollowupID: 238425

Reply By: Barry B - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:45

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 13:45
It seems I have stirred up a hornets nest.

I am a fair person so I did supply Suburban4wd with the link to this forum. I too am pleased they put their side of the argument forward.

In fairness to Suburban4wd and ARB I would like to make it known that, although I was not happy with the after sales service, they have since offered to rectify all the problems I listed, at their expense. On top of this, Suburban4wd were still willing to offer me a substantial discount on other ARB products in order to instill good will.

Barry
AnswerID: 38957

Follow Up By: Member - Eric- Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 17:47

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 17:47
Thats fantastic news Barry , goon on you SUB, up there for thinking boys Venus Bay
0
FollowupID: 82811

Follow Up By: Member - Les & Clare (SW WA) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 18:06

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 18:06
This is an excellant result for both parties! Well done Barry for finally achieving what you should have had in the first place.

Top marks to Suburbarn 4WD .....I'd be more than happy to be one of your clients if I was located near you and certainly i'd be prepared to pay a premium knowing that if there was was a problem Suburban 4WD would do its utmost to ensure my satisfaction.

Have beast - will travel!
0
FollowupID: 82812

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 19:22

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 19:22
Unreal, take the discount but make sure you get someone else to do the installation....Unplugged hole in the aircleaner...unrealI may be mad but I'm not crazy
Hooroo
Ray
0
FollowupID: 82815

Reply By: Russell S - Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:53

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 09:53
Perception is reality. Barry would not have posted if he was happy with the job. I am pleased that a satisfactory outcome was achieved in the end, but I wonder how much is due to the public pressure exerted through this site..... I don't envy 4WD shops in this aspect of their business - mistakes do happen and some customer expectations are very high - but it goes with the territory. A satisfied customer can make a huge positive impact due to ongoing and referred business. A dissatisfied customer, regardless of the size of the problem or the validity of his/her claim, can make a big negative impression too.

Someone talked about inspecting the work carried out by the installer - good point, but sometimes it's internal, and at other times you wouldn't think to look there, and you only find out when doing other maintenance later, washing the car etc. I wonder whether it would be a good policy for shops to take the customer (if they want it) on a tour of the work, showing what they did, where they put holes, moved brackets, etc etc. A lot of the problems that Barry found later would have been picked up straight away, and possibly fixed on the spot too.

I've found that it matters little what the name on the door says (ARB, Toyota etc). It's the ability, attitude and experience of the bloke doing YOUR job that matters. Is it Eddie the expert, Bill the buffoon or Andy the apprentice? Can you really insist on Eddie? A lot of shops get narky when you start asking about their ability, experience, who's going to do the job and how. Then there's the issue that they might have done plenty of diffs before, but it turns out they've never done one on your model of vehicle etc etc. Feels a bit like Russian Roulette at times....

Thanks for the post and hope it doesn't get you into too much trouble! One of the more interesting posts of late.Russell S
Prado RV6
AnswerID: 39022

Follow Up By: Member - Alan- Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 13:57

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 13:57
You've got it right there Russell when you say ......"It's the ability, attitude and experience of the bloke doing YOUR job ". Attitude is the most important from my experience.
I had a Discovery Auto and got my local ARB shop to service the auto as well as do other work at the same time, and the workmanship was shocking! The vehicle wouldn't start in PARK, transmission stick was loose, carpet was filthy dirty, windscreen had grease all over it inside, and the foreman mechanic had the cheek to suggest it was my fault and they would have fixed the transmission prob. "If I'd told them".
Bloody cheek, my vehicles are in as good condition as I can possibly keep them.
BUT, I had a chat with the ARB owner and it was fixed immediately, cleaned and checked over, and he had words with his men about the condition of vehicles leaving the workshop.
I was very pleased with his response.
Next job involved the dual battery, much swearing and cursing from a clown of a mechanic who constantly abused Land Rovers (so do I sometimes, but as the owner that's my privilege) and when I checked he'd put the terminal upside down so the taper was the wrong way!
No wonder he couldn't get it right.
Not a big deal and I fixed it in 5 minutes myself.
End result is that I won't get anything done by them again, not because of the management, one of whom gives good free advice to anyone and is a Land Rover man from way back (and do we need that advice at times!), but because of the attitude of the actual people doing the work.
0
FollowupID: 82860

Reply By: Dennis (Brisbane) - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 15:08

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 15:08
Well done SUB XJ,

Customer satisfaction goes a long way, and this discussion board has a lot of potential customers.

In the long run, you may be a few bucks out of pocket this time, but you may have many more in your pocket later from increased trade by being touted as a good place to shop with great back up service.
AnswerID: 39172

Reply By: Tuff60 - Friday, Dec 05, 2003 at 16:19

Friday, Dec 05, 2003 at 16:19
"If you want it done right, do it yourself" Dead true when it comes to cars, particularly when it comes to accessories. You may have no idea but at least you care. With the mechanic/fitter he knows but probably doesn't care, spend ten minutes in any workshop and you will probably here "hay it's not my car" "At least I am not driving it home tonight", or something similar (yes there are exceptions but I am making a point). Look at it from there prospective they're there getting paid next to nothing working on "rich boys toys" probably worth three times what they make in a year, or more. Made even worse by some 4WD's being hard to work on (sorry Land Rover owners). And if you do it, lets face it none of it is rocket science, if it breaks in the bush chances are you'll know how to fix it if you did it yourself.
If you don't know how ask, read a book, take a tafe course or check these forums, with all the people on this site, they've probably already done what you want to do or fixed the work of the "expert" they paid to do it the first time.
AnswerID: 39521

Reply By: jemima puddle duck - Friday, Dec 12, 2003 at 18:59

Friday, Dec 12, 2003 at 18:59
very interesting post.
suburban going to fix at no cost great news.
but in all honesty would you really let them work on your 4by again
even with a discount.
i dont think soyou reckon your cute
richard

AnswerID: 40075

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Saturday, Dec 13, 2003 at 08:42

Saturday, Dec 13, 2003 at 08:42
I would, give them the benefit of the doubt and make sure you have time to go over the job with them, tyre places are the same, you need time to talk to them, not just drop stuff off and then fly thru pick it up and complain laterLaterally Literal
Seriously Cerebral
0
FollowupID: 257745

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)