Help from Snake Experts Please

Submitted: Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 22:09

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Member - Stephen L (Clare SA)

Hi All

Back from a great Simpson and Birdsville Track Trip. As we all know there is a real rodent problem in the outback and along with the rodents, there are great numbers of their predators....snakes.

In all our Simpson trips as well as countless Birdsville Track visits, we have never seen as many snakes for this time of the year. This snakes below was found around 2 hours south of Birdsville and as it was only 18 degrees around 11am, it was a little cool for it to be more active.

When we approached the snake at around 85 kpm, I at first thought that it was a large piece of timber on the road, but as we approached, it raised the front of its body around 8" off of the ground in a striking position.

Not wanting to kill the snake, after all we were in its territory, I quickly stopped the car and got out at a very safe distance a took a good number of images. The snake was well over 2 metres in length, around 50mm in body diameter, its head was about the size of a normal brown snake, but the colouring was very unusual.

The body colouring was a very pale brown/light golden colour with distinctive black bandings. As I approached, it flattened out its head, then continued to check out the numerous rat holes looking for a feed.

I have checked out Google, but not able to find a snake like this.

Are you able to help identify it please.

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Cheers

Stephen

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Reply By: Bazooka - Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:14

Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:14

Gwarder?

AnswerID: 462527

Follow Up By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:30

Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:30

Yes, could be a Gwarder.

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Allan

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:49

Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:49

Hi Bazooka and Allan

The snake in the image from Allan's link has black spots, rather than the distinct banding and also the details for the Gwarder said that its average length was 1 metre. The one that we saw was very fat and over 2 metres long.

It could be that snake but the details that I have shown are not the same.

Thanks for the replies.

Cheers

Stephen

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 00:24

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 00:24

yep definitly a gwarder I say 80% the other 20% is some other kind of brown either way doesnt make much difference

No steve gwarders arntonly 1m

I do doubt your 2m as non snake people always add a fair % generally they are around 1.2-1.5 m even most pythons mine included dont top 2m or so however that one does have sighns of being a fullsied very healthy specimen

they are assivly variable and that banding is a typical morph although ive only seen pcs as here in WA typically they have a black head

well done for respecting it they are not aggresive and if given space and respect can be photographed quite safely

only thing to keep in mind is while you thing its best way to escape is away from you they often need to get past you to get to the covr they wont
this is where they great aussie myth of being chased by a snake comes from

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:05

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:05

Stephen
I'm not sure if it is a Gwarder but they certainly can grow longer than 1.5m. One I encountered in the gulf country (mid-brown colour) was around the 2m mark and much fatter than the one in your pic. A very healthy specimen. Two others which found their way into our camp were closer to the figs you mention.

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:39

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:39

to put it intom perspective many people would say this full grown SW carpet python was "at least 2m" but fact is its barley more than 1.5

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 08:58

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 08:58

Hi Get out more

I have to admit that I was wrong in the size of the snake. When we were there and saw the monster in person it looked very big, but when I have just put a tape measure on the ground, it would have been around the 1.6 metres in length, so sorry about that.

I was using a 250mm telephoto lens and I kept well away from the snake. When I walked some distance in front of the snake, you can see that it did flatten out its head a little, and then just went on its way of putting its head in the holes and flicking its tongue trying to find a rat for its meal.

Thanks for your reply

Cheers

Stephen

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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 16:00

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 16:00

Nice photo Davoe, where was that taken?

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 16:53

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 16:53

fitzgerald river nat park near hamersly inlet

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Reply By: Member - Stuart P (WA) - Saturday, Aug 13, 2011 at 23:20

Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 00:32

Reply By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 00:39

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 00:39

hmmmmm

cant believe it - the colour threw me off but there is a bit of a possability it is a mulga

the head well off the ground for a threat display and the flattening of the body as well as you emphasie the thickness and length

did it flatten its neck while the head was raised off the ground and sort of have the flattened neck ponted towards you rather than directly face you?
that is typical mulga defens posture (it wasnt posed to strike it was displaying a defense posture like all snakes will)

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 09:06

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 09:06

Hi get out more

Yes the raise front part of its body looked like the pictures when you see a cobra ready to strike. I at first thought it might have been a king brown or mulga, but the colouring did not fit the images on the internet.

What ever it was, it is still out there looking for another meal. The other thing like I have mentioned was how fat it was. I have seen lots of big brown snakes over the years and they are always a slender snake compared to this very big fellow.

Cheers

Stephen

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Follow Up By: Madfisher - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 15:14

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 15:14

Most likely put on condition due to all the rats and mice.
My thoughts are western Brown as it looks a bit like a black snake(same family) and the threat display also pionts to this.
Cheers Pete

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 17:11

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 17:11

damn im confused - colouring is definitly possible for a gwarder morph
mulgas dont have stripes or colourings

however a gwarder will poise in a low s when defensive where as a mulga will rasie its head much higher (gives you the heebie jeebies when trying to bag something with its head above the bag)

most snakes can flatten themselves but this is very much a Mulga trait and they do a kind of cobra impersanation

Im still thinking gwarder due to the banding

on cool days snakes often get more defensive as they lack the body heat to make a quick escape

this is a mulga

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Reply By: The Explorer - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 01:39

Reply By: Member - John (Vic) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 03:15

Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 06:50

Reply By: Member Al (Sunshine Coast) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 09:23

Reply By: Member - Heather MG NSW - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 10:45

Reply By: Lotzi (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 15:42

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 15:42

.
western brown

AnswerID: 462574

Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 19:33

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 19:33

Hi Lotzi

I have just received an email from a snake expert in Queensland and he said that it is a Western Brown also. He now wants some hi resolution image to post of their website.

Cheers

Stephen

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Follow Up By: OutBack Wanderers - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 19:57

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 19:57

Gidday Stephen
If you like the Australian Reptile Park at Gosford, NSW might be able to help

admin@reptilepark.com.au

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Follow Up By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 20:02

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 20:02

Hi Outback Wanderers

This was the reply that I received from Wildlife Queensland:

It’s a Western Brown snake. This morph is usually typified by a more consistent block in the banding but the washed out bands and the very pale color makes for a really spekky snake.

Cheers

Stephen

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Follow Up By: Lotzi (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 21:19

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 21:19

Hi Stephen

Your second photo is a good shot, it shows that the browns are related to the cobra family with the flattened neck, he was getting a bit peed of with you so close, you will find them all up through there.

Usually found near water holes, tend to disappear down the wide cracks in the ground.

Cheers

Ray

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 21:27

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 21:27

browns arnt related to cobras and most snakes will flatten themselves when threatened as it makes them seem bigger

tiger snakes and mulgas are some of the more pronounced "neck flatteners" you will find here

I actually havnt really seen it in browns in a pronounced way

not saying they dont just saying I havnt seen it

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Follow Up By: Lotzi (QLD) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 21:41

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 21:41

suggest you do some research

night

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Follow Up By: Tim - Stratford (VIC) - Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 23:19

Sunday, Aug 14, 2011 at 23:19

Quote from Encyclopeadia Britanica.....

"brown snake, any of several species of snakes named for their usual predominating colour. In New Guinea and Australia the name brown snake is applied to seven species of the genus Pseudonaja. These venomous snakes are slender, small-headed members of the cobra family, Elapidae. "

I learnt something today! :-)

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Monday, Aug 15, 2011 at 07:43

Monday, Aug 15, 2011 at 07:43

well that depends on your definition of related

thats like saying a wombat and a kangaroo are related because there both marsupials

to put the initial coment into perspctive

a blue togue also flattens itself out when threatened

and being a reptile its also related to a cobra

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Follow Up By: Smudger - Monday, Aug 15, 2011 at 09:54

Monday, Aug 15, 2011 at 09:54

Steve,
Seems after all that, the first response posted was probably correct ..Gwadar, alternatively named the Western Brown. Close relative of the Eastern Brown & Dugite (WA)
As for the Cobra pose, I've been threatened with the same pose from both a Tiger and an Eastern Brown. I don't speak snake, I just took it as a serious attempt at scaring me off ..and it worked.

Check out this site

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