Jackaroo 3lt TD 2000

Submitted: Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 22:23

ThreadID: 8849 Views:8376 Replies:7 FollowUps:14

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Juluka

Hello all I have been reading the comments on this site for a while, on and off. So I learnt some of the problems of the Jackaroo from here. I bought a Jackaroo 3 months ago and as part of the deal had a drive by wire cruise control fitted because we drive about 700km every school holidays.
It went like a rocket and accelerated in fifth gear and held its speed in fifth gear going up hills until recently. The cruise control did not have any pick up and going up hills it would loose speed but not that much. It missed its 60 000km service so I got the 70 000km service combined with a 60 000 km service (the people who did the service put in 20 - 50 oil). It now goes like a dog in the mornings and runs hotter. In the afternoon after driving it for a bit it accelerates OK but not in fifth if its below 3000 rpm and it takes a while to get up to speed in fourth gear, basically there is no power and it can't accelerate up hills anymore. I have had it checked by the local holden dealer and they hooked up the computer and found nothing wrong. Recently it would not start in the afternoon until it was left to sit for 20minutes. Has anybody had this problem?

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Reply By: Savvas - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:22

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:22

Juluka,

Was this a dealer or another workshop that performed the service?

20-50 oil is way too heavy for that motor. It's what Holden specify for the petrol V6 and not the TD. I believe it's also too heavy for the V6 in cold weather, as it takes an uncomfortable handful of seconds to make its way to the top of the engine.

In the 3.0TD, the injectors are hydraulically driven using the engine oil. If the oil is too heavy it won't circulate adequately when cold to get the injectors operating. This is why you have a starting problem and may explain the performance problem.

The 50 in 20W50 represents the thickness of the oil at operating temperature. The higher this figure, the thicker the oil. If Isuzu/Holden specify a 40, then they are specifying a thinner and more free flowing oil. The 20W50 might be causing the motor to be ineffcient, hence the performance and temperature changes.

The owners manual specifies 15W40. For cold regions 5W40 is specified. Have a read of post 8765 for a range of choices in oil for the TD Jack.

Castrol Magnatec is a 15W40, will work fine and is easy to get your hands on. About $25 for 5L. Penrite also have a 10W40 that works very well in Jackaroos.

You should see a big improvement straight away once you get rid of the 20W50 engine oil.

BTW ... Make sure that the injector seals get replaced at the 80000km service. There is a known problem with the 3.0TD motor and failed injector seals destroying the engine. This can be easily avoided by getting the seals replaced at 80000km.

AnswerID: 38919

Follow Up By: Savvas - Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:27

Saturday, Nov 29, 2003 at 23:27

PS ... To illustrate the effects of a heavy oil. I like to use 5W-40 oil in my V6 Jackaroo.

It had it's 70000km service a few weeks back and the dealer put in 20W-50 . My fuel consumption shot up 10-15%. I drained it and put in BP Visco 5000 5W-40 and it came back down immediately.

FollowupID: 82761

Follow Up By: Juluka - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:06

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:06

No it was serviced through Toyota because I got a three extended warranty on the car and it is only valid if they service it. I asked one of the Holden dealers and they said it is to thick but it may cause the problems but another said no way, it will cause hard starting and one day when it gets cold it just won't start. Thanks for the advice for the 80 000 km service, the fun thing will getting it through to the people who are servicing it. I actually told them when it was serviced that it uses a specific grade and told it is the same oil they put in a Landcruiser so it should be all right.

FollowupID: 82821

Follow Up By: Savvas - Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 08:24

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 08:24

Juluka,

Contact Holden's Customer Service Department (numbers are in the owner's manual and on www.holden.com.au) and see if you can get a copy of the relevant service bulletin for the injector seals. Explain that you bought it 2nd hand from a Toyota dealer and you need this information to explain to the dealer what you want them to do. It will help if you can take a copy along to the dealer you bought the vehicle from.

If they Toyo dealer can't do it, then they will need to arrange it with a local Holden dealer to get it done. This way, the extended warranty is preserved.

FollowupID: 82844

Follow Up By: Juluka - Friday, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:36

Friday, Dec 12, 2003 at 09:36

Hello Savvas

The car was fixed, it was a blockage in I think the air intake orifice was the way they described it.

Apparently the blockage was only partial and it was a piece of carbon.

Thanks for the advice.

See you later.

FollowupID: 257653

Reply By: Glenos - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:34

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 21:34

G'day Julka,

I have a 98 3.0TD Jack, and it is a great truck. The previous posts are correct it like expensive oil. I bought mine in July and did an oil and filter change pretty much as soon as I got it home. Unfortunatlry the sales rep for penzoil was in the shop and he "conned" me into trying a new brand of oil called conoco it was 10W-40 pretty thin but not thin enough. I live in Hobart, so it gets cold here, not freezing, winter temps in the single figures.

The truck has been blowclods of smoke on startup and running a bit rough, vibrations through the seats, gear stick. On Friday I changed the oil again this time I used Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 synthetic. I made the choice based on conversations with Mobil lube line, castrol lube line and 3 Holden service managers (2 here and one in Melb who used to service my vehicle.

The Melb guy said, use Delvac 5W-30, this is no longer a std product and is about $320 for 20L, Mobil lube line said 5W-40 is the rght choice $200/20L, castrol said Formula R Synthetic 5W-30 $55/5L. Hobart mechs said, Castrol Softec (same as Formual R) and Delvac 1.

When I quizzed the melb mech about Castrol Magnetec he said, "No, don't use that s**t, use Delvac 1 5w-30, there is 5W-40 but the 5W-30 is better."

This is not a cheap solution, but the Jack no runs smoother, no seat vibration, starts easier and almost no smoke on startup. I plan to change the oil again in a couple of weeks to fully flush out the other crap. Next time I will do the filters as well.

If you didn't know there are 2 oil circuits that are interlinked and it takes three oil changes to fully exchange the oil.

do a serch here for Jackaroo and you will learn a lot.

Glenos

AnswerID: 38983

Follow Up By: Member - Bradley- Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:30

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 11:30

Hey Glenos, seeing as you are in tassy, you can also go with a 0 weight oil such as Mobil 0w30 or F.u.c.h.s 0w20 . Don't put too much faith in holden for this problem as they are the ones who put twin batteries in so that you could crank the motor for minutes and overwork the starter and still not get it to fire. I personally argued with holden that the secondary filter on the injection circuit should also be changed, when i was working there as they said only change it at engine re-build time !!
Anyway i won and convinced them that they should be changed every time, but most dealers will do it every 2nd main filter change. The dealers will also tend to throw whatever crud oil they have in the bulk tanks in to them - usually 15w40 or such. The injectors are electro-hydraulic, they are triggered by the computer to fire, but rely on oil pressure to actually inject, so the thicker the oil the harder it is to flow through the tiny orifice in the circuits. With this motor , the better the oil (fully synthetic preferred) and the thinner the grade , the better they will go all round. And you are correct, it does take 3 oil changes or so to fully flush out the old oil. if you have any other questions let me know and i will see if i know , or have any relevant tech lines at home. BradMoo... everyone knows what a Jackaroo looks like :-)

FollowupID: 82925

Reply By: Old Jack - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 22:05

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 22:05

as other have said use the correct oil, if the toyota dealer serviced and put 20w-50w oil in it then they just don't know how to read the sign on the dip stick or the sticker under the bonnet on these motors say API 0w-30w or 10w-30w.
It wilt take 3 oil changes to get most of the junk out they have put into it out. most of the oils people have listed hear are fine for the jackaroo diesel motor. the toyota dealer should have on hand an oil that is 10w-30w as most of the modern petrol motors run these lighter grade oils already

Most or the toyota dealerships are going through a steap learning curve at the moment as toyota has started to intorduce some 1980's techknowlagy (electronic direct injection diesel has been around sinsce the early 1980's )into it's engine bays. the reason their motors run on these thicker oils is due to the larger machining clearances and tolerances basically they need a thicker oil to fill the gaps!

running to thick an oil increases friction and wear due to the "drag" caused by the increased thickness. a lot of people are killing there modern motors long before they should by using too thick oils in them, which increases fuel consumption, engine waer and pollution

if they wont use the correct oils and service the motor as per Holdens specifications you would have a case before the trade practices and consumer affairs if any damage is done by toyota's servicing.

Happy motoring
jack

AnswerID: 38987

Reply By: Juluka - Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 22:42

Sunday, Nov 30, 2003 at 22:42

Thankyou all, so far it seams I am in for some oil changes, but any idea what sort of things would be happening if the injection timing was out or the turbo going, because one lot of mechanics suggested this is the place they would start because the oil could not possibly cause this problem. Also nothing came up on the computer with anything being wrong. Lastly just something that popped into my mind whilst reading some of the other articles is that we have one key, how could I get a second one because of the engine immobiliser being linked to the key?

Thankyou you all.

AnswerID: 38999

Follow Up By: Savvas - Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 08:14

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 08:14

An additional remote is about $400 or so from a dealer! You should be able to get a key cut at a good locksmith.

As a suggestion, contact Jackeroo World at -

http://jackworld.alphalink.com.au

They may be able to help you with sourcing an extra remote at a lower cost. Then for the training of the remote, follow the process here -

http://www.isuzu-suvs.com/howto/keylessentry.html

FollowupID: 82843

Follow Up By: Juluka - Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 21:03

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 21:03

Ok an update, I booked the car in at a Holden Dealer service centre and he reckons that an oil change is the best place to start but there has to be more wrong with it. They are going to put 10w40 in because they believe that works best in the Jackaroo and then I should see how I go. Apparently the oil they use is expensive.

The service manager believes I will be back because he believes it is either the Turbo, or the injection system that is having a problem. If it is either of these apparerently I am up for big bickies. Then I have to see if it comes under Toyotas extended warranty. A lot of fun ahead, I hope it is the oil. I think it could be related to the aftermarket cruise control but I havent voiced that.

Thankyou for your advice and I will keep you posted.

FollowupID: 82878

Reply By: Glenos - Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 14:11

Monday, Dec 01, 2003 at 14:11

Julka,
Change the oil and then hunt for gremlins, my gremlins went away with an oil change and 20W-40 is VERY thick for this motor.

On the key issue, you can buy a remote from USA on ebay, they have three buttons on theirs but it works fine. This only activates the door locks not the immobiliser.

The Immobiliser is activated by the key itself, you will need to buy a key get it cut and then programmed by holden $$$$.

I am thinking about using my webspace that my provider give me to post some Jackaroo tips, any thoughts?

Good luck,
Glenos

AnswerID: 39047

Follow Up By: Juluka - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:00

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 10:00

Hello Glenos,

Not a bad idea of using a little of your webspace for information and tips for we Jackaroo drivers. It can be a good place to find technical advice and the like because some stuff like cargo liners etc are difficult to find now that they are no longer made.

Since they don't make the Jackaroo things will be hard to find etc.

Thanks for the help,
Juluka

FollowupID: 82913

Reply By: Savvas - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 07:11

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 07:11

Juluka ... I think I found the answer!

Download this pdf file, have a read and take it to the Toyo dealer. http://www.penrite.com.au/techbulletins/14_15_JACKAROO_LISTING_&_LANDROVERTD5.pdf.

It includes the Holden tech bulletin which states that the wrong grade of oil may cause poor cold starting, poor idle quality, excessive smoke, poor performance. ALL the symptoms your car is exhibiting.

It then goes on to name specific oils that are suitable for the engine.

AnswerID: 39138

Follow Up By: Juluka - Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:56

Tuesday, Dec 02, 2003 at 09:56

Hello Savvas,

I downloaded the technical bulletin and found it interesting reading. I have booked the car in to a Holden Dealer to have an oil change set for Wednesday. It appears the oil can effect a few different things. Everybody tells me that the fuel injection system is dependent upon oil pressure. The holden dealer use TXT or the FMX I can't remember which one. Now I have to decide if I should cancel Holden and go to Toyota and show them the Bulletin and get them to do it for free?.

I suppose since it didn't get its 60 000 service it had not had an oil change for 20 000km, whcih could explain the poor performance when it got close to 70 000km. Also the fact that it idled rough after the service and the poor performance suggested that the oil that was used was not good. So far I would have to agree it looks like oils ain't oils.

Thankyou and I will keep you posted.

FollowupID: 82912

Follow Up By: Juluka - Thursday, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:12

Thursday, Dec 04, 2003 at 10:12

Hello All,

I got the oil change on the 3rd of December, it accelerates better and runs smother and quieter (starts easier as well), but it still has no get up and go. As the mechanic said after he took it for a drive it has no guts.

They think it is the turbo, the turbo is spinning and appears to be working but there is no turbo boost so you no longer get that thrown into the seat feel. I asked could the after market cruise control have anything to do with it and got the reply yes but.... The but means we don't know how its connected, but it could be connected to one of the systems that are important to the turbo and causing it to lose pressure.

So its of to Toyota who are going to chase it all up, I think they are taking it to opposite lock who fitted the cruise control so they fault find the cruise control bewcause of warranty (its only 5 months old).

I took it for a test drive and got it upto 110km/h without the cruise control. My foot was flat to the floor and the it was accelerating slowly.

Repeated the experiment except when I put the crusi control to keep it at 110km/hr it went down to 105km/h and it would not go up.

Anyway I will know more this afternoon.

Bye for now

FollowupID: 257110

Follow Up By: Savvas - Thursday, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:57

Thursday, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:57

That's very odd.

At least you have the right oil now. As some others have said though, it may take 2 or 3 changes to get it all out and to the right viscosity.

Make sure that it's clear to the dealer that you expect this to be a warranty fix at no cost to you. Dealer sold passenger cars that are under 10years old and have less than 160000km have a 3 month/5000km statutory warranty from date of purchase.

As long as you brought these issues to the attention of the dealer within this period, then it is their problem to fix at no cost to you. This is irrespective of what the extended warranty says.

Problems found after the 3 months/5000 km are dealt with under the terms of the extended warranty, which may have limitations on cost of repair, etc.

FollowupID: 257121

Follow Up By: Savvas - Thursday, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:59

Thursday, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:59

FAQ on warranties...

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/help/question_answer/warr.shtml

FollowupID: 257122

Follow Up By: Juluka - Friday, Dec 05, 2003 at 13:16

Friday, Dec 05, 2003 at 13:16

Here's an update for you,

Ok it went into the place who did the cruise control, no difference so they said, so Toyota booked into Holden to check it over. Toyota could not figure out why it is doing what it is doing.

So we have a White car that according to my better half should be YELLOW.

I hope there is cracked hose, and they will pay $1000 to repairing the turbo.

I have not had a chance to mention to Toyota that it should have another 2 oil changes.

Somewhere from the guesses I heard from the mechanics there is a leak or its not producing boost. But the turbo is whinning and acting in every other respect normally, but nothing is getting into the cylinder.

FollowupID: 257191