Help - Sway Issues

Submitted: Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:03

ThreadID: 88681 Views:5227 Replies:9 FollowUps:19

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Oztigger

G'day all, looking for any suggestions to help settle my new caravan down.

I have a BA auto wagon. I used to tow a Galaxy with a GTM of around 1900kg with ease.

I have recently upgraded my van to a Golf Linwood, GTM around 2200 , Ball weight of 200kg. I took it for a run last weekend to see how it tows and found that that BA has heaps of power to pull it, but the van did sway a little especially when other cars passed me or going down hill, it just didn't feel to good to me. The wind was blowing quite hard.

It actually feels like it is rolling sideways on the back tyres like they are too soft in the walls. They are new Goodyear Eagle NCT5 215/60R16 99H. load rating of 775kg per tyre so that’s 3.1 for the car. I have spoken to several tyre outlets and they have assured me the tyres are up to the job, they said a light truck tyre would be slightly better but suggested it was probably tyre pressures not quite right.

On the Falcon I have the upgraded heavy HR tow bar, air bags in the rear end, transmission cooler on the auto transmission, high end Bendix brake pads, and stabilzer bars on the van. When set up the van and the car sit level (very little change in the gap at the front wheels). I'm running 45psi in the rear tyres and 35 at the front. Caravan tandem wheels are at 50psi. Electric brakes are setup and work well. Towing at 70-80kms, didn't really want to go much faster in case the sway got really bad.

Any suggestions on how I can get it to settle down on the road. The Linwood does have a shorter drawbar to the Galaxy but the tandem wheels are quite far back.

I appreciate any help anyone can offer.

Cheers

Brian

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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:23

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:23

Gday
Why do you run the van tyres at 50 psi when the car is at 35 and 45psi ?

Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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AnswerID: 463506

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:27

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:27

It was suggested by the previous owner of the van that it rode better at the 50psi. I will be dropping it back to 45 next time I have it out.

Brian

FollowupID: 737303

Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:55

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:55

50 PSI sounds about right for the dual axle van depending on which tyres you have, iand depending on the actual weight of the van as you have it set up.

FollowupID: 737308

Reply By: hoffy - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:27

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:27

What type of stabilisers do you have?
If they are the "shepherds crook" type they are certainly not suitable for 200kg ball weight. You would need the Hayman Reece WDH type bars for that weight.

You may also need to re distribute the weight in the van. Too much weight behind the wheels will worsen the problem.

AnswerID: 463507

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:35

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:35

They are the HR ones recommended by Golf at the time of manufacture. I know the previous owner well and have been places with him where he towed the van and he said it towed like a dream that's why I think it's my setup somewhere.

FollowupID: 737306

Reply By: Notso - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:48

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 16:48

Have you actually weighed the van to see what you are putting on the tow hitch and what the van weighs.

It sounds like you may have either too much or too little on the ball.

AnswerID: 463508

Follow Up By: snoopyone - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:29

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:29

Or the van is simply to heavy for the Falcon What is the capacity of the Falcon and what is the total weight of the van.

I wouldnt take a dealers advice about WDH's either.

FollowupID: 737310

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:44

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:44

Falcon is rated to tow 2300kg.

GTM of van at the way bridge was 2200.

Ball weight was calculated to be 184kg, it is probably heavier now as I have filled the gas bottles in the front and added a ground sheet and hose in the front boot. Falcon wagon can have a ball weight of 240kg

Someone mentioned to me today it might be the shackle rubbers in the leaf springs, I'll check those this weekend.

FollowupID: 737314

Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:45

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:45

That's not beyond the bounds of possibility either but if he ways it then we can maybe suggest something else

FollowupID: 737315

Follow Up By: snoopyone - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:53

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 17:53

If your Falcons tow capacity is 2300 thats the maximum ATM you can tow regardless of the ball weight
So if your weight on the wheels is 2200 and ball weight is 184 your are at least 84kg over legal capacity

GTM and ATM are Plated weights not ACTUAL

They should not be exceeded either by loading the van too much or towing with a car with lesser towing capacity.
This from the Regs

For Braked Trailer- Total trailer mass (including any vertical coupling load) equal to the ATM of the trailer or 1.5 times the unladen mass of the towing vehicle, whichever is less.

FollowupID: 737318

Follow Up By: Notso - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:04

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:04

I thought the Linwood only came with independent trailing arm suspension? Never seem one with leaf springs?

FollowupID: 737320

Follow Up By: snoopyone - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:07

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:07

Maybe he means the car but think he has more issues than that

FollowupID: 737321

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:33

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:33

Yes the Falcon wagon has leaf springs, the van is independent trailing arms.

FollowupID: 737327

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:52

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 18:52

Just rechecked the weighbridge dockets and the actual GTM is actually 2020kg with a ball weight of 184 so the ATM is 2204.

The weight of the Falcon Wagon is 1694kg so 1.5 time that is 2541kg.

Gee you had me worried there for a minute, I knew the weights worked out when I was at the weighbridge.

FollowupID: 737328

Follow Up By: snoopyone - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 19:08

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 19:08

The GTM AND ATM are FIXED weights and are not the weights you get on a weighbridge.
They are the weights that the manufacturer states on the compliance plate on the van and are the legal liimts the van can weigh.

The weights you get on the weighbridge should NOT exceed the plated weights
You have things mixed up with the rule I posted

If the Falcon and/or its towbar is rated to 2300kg

THATS ALL YOU CAN TOW as the rule says its the lesser of the two methods

Also if for instance the car is rated to 2300kg and it has a 1800kg rated towbar on it THATS ALL YOU CAN TOW

as the rule also goes on to say that a vehicle can tow the manufacturers rated weight OR the towbars rated weight WHICHEVER IS THE LESSER

Just to set you straight the ATM is The plated allowable weight on all the wheels AND the Jockey wheel

The GTM is the plated allowable weight on the wheels only.

Its the ATM you have to worry about.

FollowupID: 737330

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 19:14

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 19:14

The weighbridge weights are well under the plated weights.

FollowupID: 737333

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 19:31

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 19:31

There is a guy on the Gold Coast and another in Tassie who both tow similar vans with Falcon wagans and they say their's tow okay, hence the reason I think it is my setup somewhere.

FollowupID: 737334

Follow Up By: farouk - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:48

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:48

Oztigger
With reference to the 1.5 times the vehicles tare weight for towing capacity, to my Knowledge this only applies when the towing vehicle does not have a manufacturers specification as an example a 70's model Holden.

Extract from RACQ website

ATM is the combined weight of the trailer and its full load when it is not coupled to a tow vehicle. GTM is the weight of the fully loaded trailer that is imposed on the trailer’s axle when it is coupled to the tow vehicle. GTM will always be less than ATM as some of the trailer weight is transferred to the tow vehicle when the trailer is coupled to it. END

I could not see on your posting any reference to what is allowed by Golf as per the plate so even tho you come in at 2200 you could be overweight legally.
although if you were even 100 or so KG over I do not think that would be the cause of the instability you are experiencing.
I once towed our van back in the 90's with a NF Fairlane which with the original tyres towed our van weighing 2250 beautifully, I then put new tyres on it and experienced the same problems as you describe, a real spongy feeling in the rear of the car, I really felt I did not have control and my wife who used to relieve me driving would not drive it when towing.

Colin
I did not experiment with it , my solution was to purchase a 4WD and relegated the Fairlane to our second vehicle

FollowupID: 737341

Reply By: Member - Peter Eltham - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:15

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:15

Hi Oztigger,

please see the following extracts from Golf Linwood reviews.

http://www.caravanworld.com.au/latest-reviews/article/articleid/55432.aspx

Extract "With an ATM of 2690kg, the Linwood is not a particularly light caravan and certainly in mid to large 4WD tow-vehicle territory. Even the Toyota Prado I used as my tow vehicle would require the van to be very carefully loaded. "

http://www.mynrma.com.au/motoring/reviews/caravan-camper-motorhome-reviews/golf-linwood.htm

Extract "Kean Walker, MD at Caravans 'R' Us, recommended a mid- to large-size vehicle to tow this van. Any vehicle with a tow rating up around 3000kg, with an appropriate towball download limit, would do nicely."

It is possible that when your van is loaded it is to heavy for the BA Falcon to tow safely.

What did the previous owner tow the van with? Was it a BA Falcon>

You may need to upgrade your tow vehicle.

Cheers Peter

AnswerID: 463529

Follow Up By: Member - Peter Eltham - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:30

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 20:30

Correct links are:

Caravanworld Site Link

NRMA Site Link

FollowupID: 737338

Follow Up By: snoopyone - Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 21:13

Thursday, Aug 25, 2011 at 21:13

If a Prado has a 2500kg tow weight which I think it does it couldnt legally pull a 2690kg ATM van
Had this trouble when I had an auto Grenade and bought a van with an ATM of over 2500kg.
Had to sell it and buy a Cruiser

FollowupID: 737347

Reply By: Peter_n_Margaret - Friday, Aug 26, 2011 at 05:57

Friday, Aug 26, 2011 at 05:57

Watch this video, very carefully.
http://www.towingstabilitystudies.co.uk/stability-studies-simulator.php

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome

AnswerID: 463547

Reply By: awill4x4 - Friday, Aug 26, 2011 at 19:31

Friday, Aug 26, 2011 at 19:31

Just to clarify your weight distibution hitch.
Which of these styles are you actually using?
The heavy duty hitch is what you should be using on your Falcon.
You could also use the Hayman Reece friction sway control kit in addition to the heavy duty hitch.
Regards Andrew.

AnswerID: 463595

Follow Up By: Oztigger - Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 07:16

Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 07:16

I am using exactly the same setup as the bottom picture with the same hitch. I cross my chains under the hitch where this one appears not to.

Pulled up on the 3rd link the van and car are level, very little difference in the gap between the top of the front wheel and the guard when the van is on or off.

FYI ...This is the fourth van we have owned over the years so I have been towing and touring around for many years. I fully understand the weight calculations and distribution issues. That is why I take the time to run the van and vehicle over the weighbridge so I know the actual weights I am working with. Different people have their own way of explaining them but they all amount to the same basic principles.

Thanks for all the info and suggestions, I appreciate all the trouble people have gone to and the positive comments.

Oztigger

FollowupID: 737443

Reply By: Von Helga - Friday, Aug 26, 2011 at 21:44

Friday, Aug 26, 2011 at 21:44

Brian,

Tow ball weight is not added to any other weights itv is a portion of the already existing trailer wieght.
Cheers
Trevor
Tow ball load

Tow Ball Load is the proportion of the trailer weight that is applied to the rear of the tow vehicle.

A vehicle’s Ball Load specification will be found in the vehicle’s handbook and will be listed as a weight in kilograms or as a percentage of the trailer’s ATM. It is determined by a range of factors such as the design of the vehicle, the design of the tow bar, the vehicle’s rear axle load, the load capacity of its tyres and the effect the trailer will have on the attitude and stability of the vehicle.

Ball Load specifications are often around 10% of the maximum towing mass specification, however this isn’t always the case. European vehicles in particular can have quite low allowable Ball Loads in relation to their towing capacity.

Too little Ball Load can cause the trailer to become unstable and too much can be detrimental to the tow vehicle’s durability as well as affecting its stability, steering and braking.

AnswerID: 463610

Reply By: Oztigger - Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 07:16

Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 07:16

AnswerID: 463619

Follow Up By: snoopyone - Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 09:17

Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 09:17

HR recommend a minimum number of free links as being 4

Any less and you have a chance of pulling the shackle out of the bar or even

breaking a bar in a tight turn as the ends of the bars move back and forth in a
turn and need at least 4 links to do so

FollowupID: 737448

Reply By: Brian H4 - Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 22:49

Saturday, Aug 27, 2011 at 22:49

I towed a dual axle Jayco weighing 2020 kg with a Fairmont for several years with a ball weight of around 180 kg plus all the HR gear including the anti-sway bar kit. It towed like a dream. I can't see why yours should be any different, except I had Light Truck tyres. LT's have a much stiffer side wall than passenger tyres, regardless of the pressure in them. Your ball weight sounds good as does everything else except the tyres. An anti-sway bar kit could help a lot, especially with passing traffic. I also think you're going to need a workshop check-up to ensure that nothing is wrong with your suspension set-up including an alignment. Good luck but safety first when towing.

AnswerID: 463667