200 series Landcruiser "Bad diesel" on GRR

just to clarify...this is included as part your regular comprehensive cover

hi wicket, I would like to know the name of your insurer. I called AAMI my insurer, and they said unless its the direct result of an accident its not covered.

RAA

That is mechanical injectors, not common rail.

Alan,
Can you tell us where on the Mid Nth Coast you got the crook fuel. Just wondering if it's the same place I got some. MM if you don't want to say here.
Cheers Dave.

I'm on the mid north coast and would like to know where this happened.
Thanks

I'm on the mid north coast and would like to know where this happened.
Thanks

I refueled at Kempsey but it may have come from the previous fill at Merriwa

I got up to Coffs before the trouble started.

Alan

Alan,
I would be putting some biocide through your tanks as that black death will still be in there and probably growing. The algae & bacteria can be removed with something like Chemtech or the many other bacteria killers on the market.

Have a good one,
RA.

Odds on the Diesel would have been Bio diesel as this will clean the whole fuel system from tank to injectors.
Normally the black sludge is old diesel that has coated the fuel tanks and lines.

Honky

I got a tank of crappy fuel at a certain roadhouse on the northside of Kempsey back in 2009......wondering if it is the same place we are talking about.

Is it the last one on the right going north out of town ?

That be the one all right!

Honky,
could be Bio, but my bet is it is black death in the tanks.

RA.

Just to clarify, if the ground tanks are very low on fue when they are filled, filling them stirs up sludge and water but if the tanks are around half full this does not happen.. makes sense i guess.. Michael.

Mike, There was a Mobile station next to a K/Mart outlet not far from us, and i used to buy diesel from them every day, One day i couldn't get in because a tanker was in doing a diesel refill, so i asked the guy inside how long to wait?.his reply was "not long the tanks half full of water so they don't get much in"!!!!,...LOL, ..Needles to say i never visted them again.


Cheers Axle.

Now for all the "my old diesel with 490000k on the clock" or " I wouldn't take one of them off the bitumen" mob are going to have a field day.

Yep. I am one or both of the above. :-)

Sorry but I just cant bring myself to buy a CDI vehicle regardless who makes it. I came close the other day I was looking at a 76 Series however I just cant take the chance on the fuel system not getting contaminated. I see too much of it in my job. Sure the numbers are not epidemic but the cost of repair is astronomical.

A car yard I know has 6 Nissan Navaras three of them have cost him $5000 each to replace the injectors. Still under Nissan Warranty but not covered due to contamination.

Injectors and pump cost around $10,000.

Cheers
Waune

You gotta Luv the smell of petrol in the morning guys !

Olcoolone

I have heard first hand of the cost - it is more than $15k for the 200

But it is no more suseptable than ther modern common rail engines. The cost is amongst other directly related the the number of injectors.

Olcoolone,

""$18000 sound a bit high for repairs.... thats nearly a new engine, most repairs are between $5000 and $11000.""

$1000 each per DID injector for a cruiser = 8g straight up, then pump + R&R, easy 7g, then flush fuel lines, R&R tank/s, then new fuel filter/s. They had one in 4X4 monthly when the 200 was only a few months old, cost $22g to fix it...........Showed the brown sludge they picked up, luckily was covered by the garage.......

Not denying repairs cost can be expensive.

Genuine new Denso injectors around $550 each ($4400 set)
Rebuilt pump around $1100

Instead of taking it to Toyota and getting ripped off go to an approved Denso Fuel Injection Service Centre.

Re the injector lines... yes they should not be reused due to sealing but I can tell you they don't get replaced if the repairs are under Toyota warranty.

Good on yer, Robin, way to go. I was going to trade the Jack on a 200 common rail
but it wouldnt pay for a set of injectors.
Why is the technology ahead of the required fuel system protection ??
All too much nonsense for me..I thought the merchandise had to be suitable for its
intended use.....sniff,sniff...:)))))........oldbaz.

Geez Robin

Since we changed over to the new 4.8 ltr Petrol model, I wondered why I ever bothered with diesels.

We have had several diesel Nissans and Toyotas, and had problems with fuel.

The last drama we had with the 2008 crd patrol and fuel contamination was the last straw.

As I stated on a previous thread they estimated around $13 to $15k to repair/replace the injector pump ect.

I know I'm stealing this saying but Oh What A Feeling when you have a petrol motor.

Gone Bush

I have been told that with high turnover you can be ok, but with any tanks such as those on the GRR, they do stand dormant for half the tie in the off season.
It is possible that you catch them at a bad time, and then it is highly likely that you can get bad fuel; The water being heavy acumulates at the bottom of the tank. The level gets higher all the time, as it cannot escape (the diesel over it stops it from evaporating). The tank when full will have hundereds of 'clean' fuel pumped out The two unlucky scenarios are
1) when you are the very first to fill up after a bowser refilled the tank as everything is mixed
2) When you are the one that fills up from a tank that is starting to run low, and you get the water. This is where all the algea, sediment and gunk is.

The service book of the very first delivery vehicles show 20k intervals for oil. This has been changed on all to 10k intervals.
Very recently, there was a service memo recommending the fuel filter be replaced at 50k

But notwithstanding what the logbook says, on any vehicle I have owned, I do the oil and fuel at more regular intervals. Surely you don't just follow their recommendations. Dont 'expect' anything from anyone, Toyo, Nissan, no-one

Do you have problems with it slowing down the fill time?

Change insurance companies.

Thanks for the memory jolt Boobook - I was intending to do that.
I am now going to check the insurance companies to see if I can find one to cover this risk. I am currently with QBE and my son is with Elders - both don't not cover for damage for using incorrect or dirty fuel.

By the way - my son's insurer verbally told me that they didn't exclude accidental damage by dirty fuel, but when the formal claim was made it was rejected. Where as QBE, my insurer, left me in no doubt and sent me a written statement excluding it.

I see a couple of members on this site have suggested RAA or NRMA.
Which insurer do you use?

I have just finished ringing NMRA and RAC - Their claims departments inform me they wont cover damage caused by dirty fuel. RAC will cover for incorrect fuel ie if I put petrol into the diesel.
I would still aprpreciate it if you let me know the name of an insurer who would cover this - other than RAC, RAA, QBE or Elders as I have drawn a blank on these.

I just rang my insurance company - AAMI and they cover damage caused by bad fuel.

Garry

Hi Garry earlier in this topic
Penchy posted:
hi wicket, I would like to know the name of your insurer. I called AAMI my insurer, and they said unless its the direct result of an accident its not covered.

Confusion remains

GIO will cover it too. I checked about under what circumstances and used examples of a)bad fuel, b)water in fuel, and c)I put petrol in accidently and they said they would cover all of these.

Also Dennis with AAMI saying it must be a direct result of an accident. I assume they mean that is not jsut a smash type accident.

Thanks Boobook,
I will ring AAMI and GIO to get their opinion also.

Boobook - your blood's worth bottling
I didn't bother ringing AAMI as 2 previous posts give conflicting opinions.
Rang GIO - They are definite they will cover dirty fuel filled from a service station or malicious damage contamination to fuel by another party.

I rang AAMI back and this time was put through to a Claims Manager in central office. His view was that it would be covered and indeed had processed such claims.

I asked could he show me in the policy document where it would indicate coverage would be provided but after 10 minutes he came back and said it was not specifically covered. I also went through the document and found a car is covered for damage but in the what is not covered section it says mechanical damage is not covered - a bit of a bet each way.

10 years ago I asked for a definition of offroad but was never able to get a straight answer - initially they said Gazetted roads so I said east beach on Fraser and they said no and we went on and on without result - now thankfully covered any where so the issue is no longer relevant with AAMI.

So back the the water - I guess you pays your money and takes your chances at claim time and hope you get a sympathetic claims officer as their is nothing in the policy document to support a claim.

Maybe seek clarification on paper.

Garry

It's something that needs to be tested by a court case, or an application to an insurance industry adjudicator - whether damage by dirty fuel is classed an as accident or mechanical breakdown.
Tomorrow I am going to put in a insurance proposal to GIO with a requirement that they define it clearly in their schedule.
I have been verbally told that they will define it as an accident - but we will see whether they will put it in writing, when it comes to the crunch.
Thanks for your input.

Went to change my insurance to GIO today but decided against it.
They gave me a verbal assurance that they would pay out on damage caused by contaminated fuel but wouldn't put it in writing.

Thanks for the info Bow & Nan,
I am in the process of finding an insurer to cover this risk and NRMA is now at the top of the list.

Were you queried on how often you changed the fuel filter?

How could you prove the dirt came from a particular servo - other than if you used the same one on a consecutive basis - or wasn't this an issue with NRMA

Did NRMA ask your opinion on where you picked up the dirty fuel?

Did the Servo admit to suppling the dirty fuel or didn't NRMA require them to comment?

Any information is appreciated
Regards Dennis

NRMA looked at the service history and checked the service book had been signed

I provided NRMA with my credit card statement listing all the places I had purchased fuel

NRMA asked my opinion on where I picked up the dirty fuel

The Servo did not admit to supplying the dirty fuel.

Don't think I will buy fuel in Buthurst again.

Hi Bow.
I rang the NRMA and the representative checked with their claims manager.
He said they won't cover me for damage caused by contaminated fuel.
I suppose its a bit of luck of the draw on who processes the claim.
I am still looking.
Thanks' for your information.

That's all well and good but unless you are an enthusiast you end up spend more and more time repairing the other bits and pieces which inevitable fail due to age and there is alway the metal cancer which always seems to creep into older vehicles.

Unfortunately the old reliable go anywhere diesel is now dead.

On the contrary they will be going for many years yet.
Speak to any mechanic in smaller centres and remoter areas they will all point to the appreciating value of well maintained older vehicles.
Most vehicles made since the late 80's and into the 90's are made with galvanised panels and if looked after and away from salty corrosive environments will last many years longer than they used to.
Parts and service items are generally cheaper on older vehicles, reliability is a given, never mind considering the far lesser "whole of life" impact on the environment of older simpler vehicles against their supposedly "environmentally friendly" modern counterparts.
I suspect the biggest driver of all the crap that is fitted to modern vehicles is customer driven by the majority living in big cities who have zero skills in fixing or repairing anything and have so much disposable income that they just replace it.

The filter on the 200 series will not protect you from contaminated fuel.
I have a $19,400 bill as evidence.

Dirt in the fuel is not normally an issue - the fuel filter should stop it but not much help if completely blocked and you are miles form anywhere.

The issue for the modern diesel is the water - goes through the filters and wrecks the pumps and injectors - there are water trap systems available but are not cheap.

Garry

Richard Cee, this URL address is to the Landcruiser forum, it fully and easily explains all. Kevin
http://www.lcool.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7319&start=0

Thanks Kevin.