silly insurance laws

Submitted: Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 20:22
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on the weekend my bosses daughter was rear ended in her barina in melb
the daughter has only 3rd party insurance and the guy who hit her has full comp with racv.the silly bit the guy refuses to claim on his insurance and theres nothing the daughter can do apart from go through lawers etc.theres probly $500-$600 damage to her car and nothing on his.acording to her insurance company hes right .nothing she can do.thats as silly as an elderly gentleman who dozed of at the wheel and wrote off 2 vehicles in bendigo last year.his insurance didnt pay out because acording to them because he fell asleep he wasnt actually in charge of driving his car.one person claimed through there insurance and the other wasnt insured.
do you know of any other silly ways insurance can get out of paying
cheers
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Reply By: Member - DOZER- Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 20:25

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 20:25
Yeah, if you lock your phone in the glovebox out of sight, its not covered if its stolen, but if you leave it in the hands free, its part of the vehicle, and theres 100 times more chance you will be broken into.
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Reply By: Fatso - Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 20:31

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 20:31
In Qld we have the Small Claims Court (or some name like that).
No solicitors required for claims that small.
Tell her to see if they have a similar system there.
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Follow Up By: D200Dug- Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 22:20

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 22:20
Small claims are great for things like this

No lawyers Also try mediation that can work
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Reply By: howesy - Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 21:27

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 21:27
If you have his name and insurance details you can send a letter of demand to his insurance company and see where that gets you but even 3rd party your insurer should do this for you and there is provision also for uninsured drivers that you can claim on 3rd party up to fixed amount. Check the fine print in your 3rd party policy statement/guidelines and if all else fails go around one night and exact $1000 worth of revenge on his car under cover of darkness. Wont get your car fixed but it sure makes you feel better. If anyone doesnt like my thoughts then its simple either dont hit me or pay when you do (LOL)
Hmmmm moderators maybe
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Reply By: The Landy - Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 21:36

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 21:36
This isn’t a silly insurance law...

The guy that ran into her is the one not doing the right thing, why blame his insurance company as they have no responsibility to your boss’s daughter and they’ll only get involved if he makes a claim. And whilst it says something about him if he is at fault, he doesn’t have to make a claim against his insurance even if he is at fault. But doesn’t mean he isn’t required to pay, just that your boss’s daughter has to take action to obtain compensation, possibly at her expense.

And whilst this looks harsh on first pass, she elected to not protect her property, only someone else’s in the case of an accident where she is at fault; that is what third party insurance is. Did she not understand this?
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Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 16:14

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 16:14
Spot on!!

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Follow Up By: Member - Royce- Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 20:26

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 20:26
Agreed. No problem with the insurance. The bloke is within his rights to not go through insurance. He still needs to pay up. Send two quotes to him and if he doesn't pay, then take him to court. As long as everything goes your way, he will have to pay costs. I know this from personal experience.
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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 23:24

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 23:24
'she elected to not protect her property, only someone else’s in the case of an accident where she is at fault; that is what third party insurance is. Did she not understand this?'

You mean she should do her no claim bonus and pay $500 excess when someone else caused the damage?

The decision she made was to pay for damage to her own car that she causes. Damage she causes to other cars is covered by her insurance. For people with cars that aren't worth much, and those who face high premiums and high excess because of their age it is a sensible choice.

Just because she makes an intelligent decision re her insurance doesn't mean some alpha hotel who her runs up her alpha should get away without paying. Her insurance stays has got nothing to do with his liability in this situation.

BTW in some states when the accident is reported, as it must be by law, he will be charged with neg driving.
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Saturday, Sep 24, 2011 at 16:08

Saturday, Sep 24, 2011 at 16:08
Hey Bob...who said he should pay, not me! But the third party insurance she has isn't going to cover her unfortunately.

"And whilst it says something about him if he is at fault, he doesn’t have to make a claim against his insurance even if he is at fault. But doesn’t mean he isn’t required to pay, just that your boss’s daughter has to take action to obtain compensation, possibly at her expense."

Cheers....



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Follow Up By: The Landy - Sunday, Sep 25, 2011 at 07:19

Sunday, Sep 25, 2011 at 07:19
Meant to say 'who said he shouldn't pay'. Of course he should!. Geting him to do so might be the problem...
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Reply By: Motherhen - Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 23:13

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 23:13
Hi #1

As per advice above - she should: 1. See if her insurance co will handle the claim. 2. Try small claims (you never get full restitution as it is usually a compromise decided on - then there is the problem of getting the guy to pay). 3. Find a community legal centre or even legal aid office who should for a small fee to write a letter of demand.

At very least, she needs to report the incident to his insurer. He is probably trying to avoid losing no claim bonus or even insurance if he has had a number of claims. However he needs to declare all accidents to his insurer - even the ones he does not claim on.

Regardless of what insurance he holds, he is totally at fault and should pay.

At least she has his details. I had a truck back into my car parked behind the shop where i worked. Staff saw it and approached him. He gave them his mobile number and a first name. They did not think to get the rego of the truck. He answered his calls a couple of times, but it seems the name and address he gave me was false (i got police involved).

Motherhen
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 23:15

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 23:15
I should have added i had third party only cover (due to the low value of that car, and the fact we had three other vehicles with comprehensive cover).

Mh
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Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 06:48

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 06:48
You don't need a legal team to write a letter of demand..You can do it yourself, and it goes like this. I....... ........ of ........................demand payment of $....... to be paid within 28 days or legal action will be taken. This payment is for the repair of my car involved in a motor vehicle accident with you. After 28 days if no payment then take it to the small claims court and you can put that cost on to his debit. You can even serve the court papers on him as well, ( I like doing that instead of the sheriffs, Just love to see there faces)

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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:39

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:39
Yes, another alternative AA, but if he doesn't have the money, it still may never happen. There is a fee to court papers. How often has this worked for you? Claiming against insurance company would be the young lady's best bet if she goes this way.

A letter on a law firm letterhead works better than a direct demand from an individual.

Mh
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Follow Up By: The Landy - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:56

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:56
Hi MH

He is the only person that can make a claim under his policy, and her policy is unlikely to cover her as it is third party property only, and the provision for 'uninsured' claims won't come into play as it appears he has insurance...

Perhaps I am missing something?

Cheers,
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:51

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:51
Hi The Landy

#1's report - second hand - is that the person has refused to pay or claim even though he is at fault. He probably knows it will cost her more than the amount of the repairs in legal fees, time and stress. Suggestions here by concerned persons are on how to make him pay up or make a claim.

Mh
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:57

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:57
Is she in the states AA ? they can help with this sort of thing, they helped me out with legal advice over a traffick accident once in south australia
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:12

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:12
Good suggestion to get outmore if she has membership. I know RAC in WA offer limited legal and traffic accident advice.

Mh
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Follow Up By: Rob! - Monday, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:52

Monday, Sep 26, 2011 at 10:52
MH,

She can't make a claim against his insurance. That's only for him to do if he wants to.

To make a claim through the Small Claims Tribunal is about $20. So it's hardly a huge amount.
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Monday, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:02

Monday, Sep 26, 2011 at 11:02
Hi Rob, I hope by now #1 has passed on the collected thoughts from the varied experiences of members here to the young lady. I would be nice to hear a good report from him of what worked for her in the end after all our efforts to help.

Mh
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Reply By: kidsandall - Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 23:37

Thursday, Sep 22, 2011 at 23:37
I hate to tell you but even if he claims his insurance may not cover her car. We had a similar incident a while back which I posted on here. She claimed but her insurance held out paying for a long time. We got the car fixed and were claiming through our insurance when they finally paid up. Everyone needs to remember just cause you pay your premium (or they pay theirs), doesn't mean your covered. I hate to say it but for that amount it's hardly worth chasing him with lawyers. Send a letter of demand to his insurance company or ask hers to do it. If they are decnt they will at least send a letter of demand. If all else fails, for a small fee, I know some very big, scary guys......

josh
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Reply By: stoney123 - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 05:07

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 05:07
i am helping a friend who left his keys in car so his mate could listen to radio, his "mate" then drove off and crashed it. Insurance refused claim. I have found this link http://www.fos.org.au the insurance ombudsman, there are sample letters you can use to send to his insurance company, You may be able to take it to ombudsman. Small claims court is good too its easy.

It is interesting to read some of the cases on this site, i have found precendents which i have sent to my friend, now his insurance company wants to talk to him.



good luck.


*footnote to keys in ignition to have radio on, In a previous car i had sparky put a switch in so i could have radio on without keys. I did this as i travelled a lot and camp beside road, did not want to get DUI.

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Reply By: The Landy - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 08:37

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 08:37
Adding to a couple of the other posts on Third Party Property Policies...

Most ‘Third Party Property’ insurance policies have a provision to deal with accidents with uninsured motorists’.

Providing you can provide the name, address, and vehicle registration number of the other driver and your insurance company agrees the other driver is responsible they may pay a limited amount, usually up to $5,000 after your normal excess is deducted.

The problem in this case is that he isn’t uninsured, he is simply electing to not access his insurance cover and he has no obligation to do so. I doubt her insurance company will want to get involved, and neither will his unless he makes a claim. But that doesn't mean he isn't liable to pay if he was in the wrong...

Sounds tough, but that is the limitation of the type of insurance cover she has elected to have, so whilst there is some initial cost benefit versus a comprehensive policy, third party property insurance policies can come at a higher cost in these circumstances, especially if you have to repair your own car, or go through the process of seeking legal recourse to force someone else to pay...

And that isn't to say I'm not sympathetic to her plight, but you need to understand what your policy provides you with under all situations, and take out the most suitable for your needs...


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Reply By: olcoolone - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 08:54

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 08:54
I would say this guy doesn't have insurance and by the sounds of things it's not the first time it's happened...... he seems to know the law quite well.

Sending a letter of demand through a lawyer is a better option and it will cost you money, seek some legal advice from a professionally.

The lawyer will most likely tell you the legal fees are going to be higher then the claim and may not be worth proceeding.

Sending a personal letter of demand in most cases fall on deaf ears and end up at the local tip.

Anyone associated with out business if involved in an accident are required to take photo's of the accident including the persons involved and rego label if possible.

These days you need all the evidence you can get incase it goes pear shaped....
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:01

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:01
i he doesnt have insurance then her 3rd party will cover the repairs at no cost if she can identify the driver
- its all in the PDS

good chance he has no license thats why hes not claiming
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Reply By: Alloy c/t - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 09:03

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 09:03
Mistake #1 , obviously did not phone the police , any rear end bingle the last car in line is at fault , fair enough that over the years the $$$ value of a minor bingle that needs to be reported to police has risen BUT even if the police do not attend a police incident, # gotten over the phone gives the insurance company a point to start the claiming process otherwise its only her word against his especially as zero or extremly minor damage to the offending car/truck ,, Would you go to the trouble of contacting your insurance co if no damage to your own car and you carry a $500 excess per claim that can and will increase your premium next year even though you have a 60% no claim bonus ?
AnswerID: 465788

Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:58

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 11:58
you dot have to have the police attend, filling out the form at the cop shop is invaluable because youve done it and they havnt
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Reply By: Honky - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:09

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 10:09
Insurance companies only pay on behalf of the insured, the damage is still the responsibility of the driver.
pursue the driver in the small claims tribunal.

Honky
AnswerID: 465791

Reply By: patrolmann - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 14:14

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 14:14
I remember when my son was rear ended by a guy who said he had insurance, We only had third party and we contacted our insurance Co. who paid out up to $3000.00 as long as we had the drivers details.
Although it turned out the driver had no insurance we got fixed.
I would still contact your insurance Co. and see where you stand. Then if no good try the small claims court.
Don't give in, these mongrels get away with this way to often
Cheers
Patrolman
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 14:51

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 14:51
for whatever reason the 3rd party only pays if the other driver is iuninsured and you can identify them

agree totally talk to your insurance co its not as cut and dried as 3rd party only covers others
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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 23:53

Friday, Sep 23, 2011 at 23:53
A few years ago I caused a tiny ding to the back of another car while I was parking. The incident was unwitnessed but I left my contact details on the window of the other car. Expecting the cost of repairs to be less than $200 I asked for the quote to be sent to me. The other driver was very reluctant and wanted to send it to my insurer instead. I demanded the quote as I didn't want to claim on insurance for such a trivial incident. I eventually received the quote which was for over $3000. It included a complete rebuild of the rear of his car. From the photographs it was apparent that he had previously been involved in a serious accident that had bent in the tail gate and bent the rear deck. The tail gate had been replaced but his floor was bent and rusted. I refused to pay. I took photographs of the mechanism of the incident showing how my vehicle could not have contacted his at the site of damage. My car has a 4" lift and the only point of contact with his car was about 30 cm above the damage he was claiming. There was no sign of contact on my car.
So the other bloke and his panel beater were trying to defraud me. His insurer became quite insistent that I pay. They said just give the matter to my insurer. I continued to refuse, saying that I would involve the police if he continued his demand. The insurer then adjusted the claim down somewhat. I still refused to pay as the work involved way more than repair of the mere scratch that I caused. In the end I paid the equivalent of my excess just to get them off my back. The world is full of crooks. The insurance companies are some of the biggest crooks. The whole panel beating/insurance industry is a conspiracy.
Its not surprising people just drive away if this is what happens when you do the right thing.
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