Snatching vehicles (Not this way)

Submitted: Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 15:16
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I found this on You tube!! Its fairly obvoius that no one here knows what they are doing. Lucky there wasn't a fatality on several fronts !! Michael



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Reply By: member - mazcan - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 15:46

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 15:46
hi michael
yep the absolute height of pommy stupiditty how they got away without serious damage or even injury or death has got me beat
2 towball connections plus a shackle in the middle with nothing over any to slow the projectileand onlokkers standing too close and the r/rover driver actions
what can one say other than some mothers do have 'em cheersthis should be used as a no no deme for 4wd training schools
cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Rich - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:02

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:02
So that is how you do it.

At least they had the sense to realise that if anything snapped it would be dangerous, well nearly.

Rich
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Follow Up By: Member - Jack - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:37

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:37
I have to agree ... a good video to show how not to do a recovery. Very lucky people. I could not get over the clown on the camera laughing when the strap broke. Had it gone through the back window he'd have had a lot more to laugh about, I am sure.

I think I have bumped a few of them on Fraser Island in the past. I don't stop any more.

Jack
The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get. (Lewis Carroll-Alice In Wonderland)

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 18:14

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 18:14
Hey Mazcan,

"yep the absolute height of pommy stupiditty "

Don't be too hard on the Poms - we breed a few of questionable wisdom of our own, you know.

Last year I was camped behind the dunes on 90 Mile Beach in Vic. A young couple with a couple of kids and kids mates camped in the next door site, about 200m away. Looked and sounded like they came straight out of Deliverance country though they turned out to be nice enough folk, if a little "different". They had a beat-up 4WD ute of some kind, a flat top trailer and a couple of mini dune buggies for the kids to play with. Which they did, with gusto, through their campground, mine and the neighbouring ones.

Grrrrrrr!!

Anyway, I'm having my fivsies and starting to put my meal together and she comes out of the bush, tinnie in hand, - "Can ya help us mate, me dopey brother's gorn an got the %^&* ute stuck".

Some of the campsites along that strip have pretty big patches of deep, loose dry sand on a hard base, but nothing that any 4x4 couldn't get through, so I wondered what was up. I followed her back through the bush to their campsite.

They had got through a patch of sand and set up a camp, but there was the ute, part way up a steep WALKING track through the dunes, sitting on its belly in 20ft of loose sand. It had slid sideways off the track and was between two trees, one about a metre in front of the vehicle, the other a couple of metres behind and the truck leaning at a precarious angle but in no real danger because the driver's door was hard up against a third tree! It wasn't going anywhere. The smell of a hot clutch pervaded the air.

Brother was pretty relaxed about the whole thing - he was sound asleep behind the wheel, tinny in hand, safely locked in a kind of rigor mortis - perhaps rigor somnolence???? The kids were out, ripping up the campgrounds.

They had no recovery gear but with a bit of effort I got them out with mine, with no further damage to what they had already done to the drivers door, and after THEY did all the digging :-) I'm too old to be doing young folks' work for them.

You have to ask - what were the thought processes behind getting into that situation? I would hazard a guess - about the same as the folk in the video - NFI, no flamin' idea of what they're doing.

Turns out they were really nice people (aren't most, when you think about it) - we shared a meal around their campfire, enjoyed their coldies at their insistence (who am I to look a gift horse in the mouth?) and the kids were instructed to stay the hell away from the nice man's campsite.

But they weren't very sharp. And that's ok, 'cos not everyone is.

FrankP

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Reply By: timglobal - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:01

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:01
The accents (and the Defender's rego plate) give this away as being around Middlesbrough in the North East of England.

If you know Middlesbrough, none of what transpired will surprise you.
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Follow Up By: Ray - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 23:23

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 23:23
I thought that they were gordies
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 23:44

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 23:44
Burnley, Lancashire actually.
Filmed in local quarry.

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Krispe - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:22

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:22
The guys who posted this are complete morons.
Have a look for the posters name on other videos, these guys are downright dangerous.
God help us all if they breed.....

Kris
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Reply By: Axle - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:27

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:27
Flamin Poms and their Landrovers Mike!!

Trouble is the landies get in further than anything else!....LOL.

Yep!, a few brain cells missing amongst that lot!.


Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: Member - shane c5 - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:36

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 16:36
well lets just hope they don't breed! Always thought that accidents were natures way of getting rid of the dumb ones!!! Must have missed this group.
shane
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Reply By: Member - Fred B (NT) - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 17:16

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 17:16
Well Guys,
you know what POM stands for don't you...?
PRETTY ORDINARY MORON.....
lol...(:
Well these guys just proved that....
regards
Fred B
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 17:18

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 17:18
If you follow the YouTube links you find that the video maker describes himself as an "Industrial paint sprayer". Methinks that he and his mates have inhaled too many paint fumes!

Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 17:37

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 17:37
Aw! c"mon Dudes

Just admit it - you're all just jealous of these guys who go where Angels Fear to Tread.
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Reply By: snailbait (Blue mntns) - Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 19:48

Saturday, Jan 07, 2012 at 19:48
hi all
Please do not try this as it i realy dangerous
If some body was stuck and had no recover gear i would sell them mine and would only take cash no promis notes and then i would use it to recover them
what a stupid thing to do
Terry
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Reply By: Bushranger1 - Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 08:08

Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 08:08
G'day all,

Last Easter I had a disagreement with someone when I went to remove his towball & replace it with a shackle in order to recover his vehicle. This is why I did it!

Recovery Mishap

Cheers
Stu

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Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 09:44

Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 09:44
Gday
You have all criticised these people and not one of you has said how they should have done the recovery.



Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: Olsen's 4WD Tours and Training - Monday, Jan 09, 2012 at 09:04

Monday, Jan 09, 2012 at 09:04
From my post in another spot-

Here is the proper method in brief. Every step is important. If you did your recovery in any other way or missed any one of these steps, that would result in a failure.

Step 1. Appoint a recovery co-ordinator to be in charge of the entire operation - this is an important testosterone limiting factor.
Step 2. Dig, shovel, jack and do whatever you can to reduce the drag on the bogged vehicle. This has a MASSIVE effect, and may reduce the load to HALF what it otherwise would be! A 3.5 T vehicle buried to the chassis in wet mud can place up to 7T load on the 8T strap, so de-bogging is VERY important!
Step 3. Remove all other persons from the area by a minimum of 1.5 times the length of the strap/s used and @ 90 degrees to the axis of operation.
Step 4 Attach suitably rated strap to two points using a 12 T MBS (minimum breaking strain) tree trunk protector. If you can, attach without shackles then do so. Otherwise use two 4.7 T WLL (working load limit not MBS) shackles. You will need to pass the tree trunk protector through the eye of the snatch strap. ensure the attachment points are rated or fit the description below.
Step 5 Inspect strap as you lay it out at full length, ensure no damage. Use ARB straps that are bright colours, dull colour indicates exposure to UV and can mean a weakened strap. If the strap is wet, it may be rated at 50% of the rated capacity due to compression of water between the fibres.
Step 6. Place a dampener on each end of the strap/s Use at least two dampeners. These will not stop a strap recoiling but they will slow it down a bit and keep it low.
Step 7. Communicate the procedure to both drivers. Make it clear what will happen. Ensure that if the vehicle does not move there will be no re-atempt until a full re-evaluaation is done, including further de-bogging.- this is commonly where the testosterone ruins the experience. Don't up the ante! EVER!
Step 8. Try first a simple tow. This requires you to attach the strap to a suitable attachment point such as the pin of the tow-bar or use a fitted point. Slowly take up the slack in first gear low range. Then with all persons at safe distance, with the bogged vehicle assisting in 1st or second gear low range attempt to tow them free.

Step 9. If the simple tow does not work, then you can attempt a "full energy" recovery. "Full energy" refers to a MAXIMUM 2 meter run-up in first gear low range. Never under any circumstances extend this run-up.

WARNING- IF YOUR CAR DOES NOT HAVE A LADDER FRAME CHASSIS, YOU MUST NOT EVER ATTEMPT A FULL ENERGY RECOVERY USING A SNATCH STRAP.

To do this,

Step 10. Disconnect the strap first. Then reassess. Debog the vehicle further if required. Remember you may halve the load with a little shovel work.
Step 11. Step out 2 meters of slack then attach the strap again.
Step 12. In first gear low range drive off as fast as you can - you can't go very fast in 1st low.

Step 13. If the vehicle does not move STOP. If the vehicle moves a bit, go back to Step 10.

The energy generated is proportional to 1/2 mass x velocity squared, so twice the velocity equals 4 times the energy. With a fully bogged vehicle exerting say 7T load, you can see that an increase in velocity could easily result in a breakage. The 2 meter run-up when used with good suitably rated equipment in good repair will exert just enough energy to stretch the strap.

Now to the rating systems - a 4.7 T shackle with an 8T strap,etc about SWL, WLL etc.

We need to look at the rating systems used for each component.

The straps are rated MBS that is minimum breaking strain. This is the point at which they break- usually verified by destructive testing of samples from each production batch.
The shackles are rated WLL a system designed to ensure that critical lifting equipment for crane work is safe at all times. The minimum breaking strain by legal definition has to be 5 times the WLL.

So if the strap and shackle were both rated MBS then the strap would be rated 8 T and the shackle would be rated 23.5 T. In any case it is patently clear to even the casual observer, that the strap will break long before the shackle does.

Re attachment/recovery points -a major cause of problems. With more than 30 years experience most trainers can safely recommend that a suitable attachment point must be-

1. A solid billet of steel with no welds
2. At least as thick as the pin of a 3.5 T shackle
3. Bolted through the chassis with a least 2 high tensile bolts of about 10mm diam

Exceptions are. Tow bar pins- which may bend but have not been known to break. Specially designed recovery points for removable hitch type tow-bars.

I hope this helps others.

Do a 4WD Course is the best advice.
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Reply By: kiwicol - Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 10:58

Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 10:58
The only thing i see wrong with what they are doing is the shackle in the middle.

If you look at the tow balls on each vehicle they are all one piece, with no ball that can break away.

col
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 16:00

Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 16:00
Col

I think that you should take the time to actually read the link that Bushranger gave us.

Try this: About recovery

A quote from the article: "The woman, who was sitting in the passenger seat, died when the towball of the vehicle her partner was recovering sheared off and catapulted back through the windscreen, striking her fatally in the throat."
Are you really willing to try it yourself after readin this.

Not me mate!!! But then I did not have to see that article. I knew it to be a fact.

One piece tow balls are just as susceptable to breaking.

Phil

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Follow Up By: kiwicol - Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 16:51

Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 16:51
You are right Phil about the dangers. Also in that fatality, another procedure was not followed, there should only the 2 drivers in there vehicles, definitly no passengers.

Sorry but i disagreee about the one piece tow bar. I think the original clip shows that. If that had been done with seperate tow balls, they would have had problems then.

Col.

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 17:13

Sunday, Jan 08, 2012 at 17:13
I assume you made a typo and said bar instead of ball.

One piece, two pieces or more, it's still the same; tow balls are not designed for the extreme stresses that can be encounted when snatching. They are just for towing loads as small as a one 1/2 ton garden rubbish type trailer or a 3 ton van with minimal shock loads. They are cheaper that way. End of story!!!

Phil
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Follow Up By: kiwicol - Monday, Jan 09, 2012 at 19:09

Monday, Jan 09, 2012 at 19:09
a one piece bar doesnt have a tow ball as we know it, its part of the bar so doesnt have a shear point, as a ball does.

Take the ball of and you can use a tow bar as a snatch point, its only the removable ball that doesnt have a capacity to take shock loads.

Col
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Monday, Jan 09, 2012 at 19:27

Monday, Jan 09, 2012 at 19:27
You have confused me now. I was always talking about not using the actual tow ball.

My statement is. Never use a tow ball as an anchor point. I do not care what type of tow bar it is on just do not use the actuall tow ball.

Cheers

Phil
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Follow Up By: kiwicol - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 10:45

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 10:45
Your right Phil about not using a tow ball, but the ball in the video is actually part of the bar,

col
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 13:13

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 13:13
No Col, the ball in the video is NOT "part of the bar."
See this screen grab from the video.

Image Could Not Be Found

The ball and gooseneck are one piece but are attached to the towbar with a pair of bolts. You can also see that these bolts have stretched and are probably close to failing. Then the whole ball and gooseneck could become a projectile.

A tow ball would never be integral construction with a bar.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:26

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:26
Thanks Allan

Thats what I thought but didn't have proof and didn't want to stick my neck out (sic).

Phil
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:31

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:31
Or balls for that matter Phil! LOL

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:37

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:37
I finally played all the video and saw both tow balls indetail. Both were bolt on types and then to top it off, one of the bolts is missing from the "tow" vehicle. You can also see that in Allan's screen capture above.

They really do not know how lucky they were.

Phil
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Follow Up By: vk1dx - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:39

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 14:39
You have been looking at our car. We do not even have a tow ball for it.

Phil
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Follow Up By: kiwicol - Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 17:37

Tuesday, Jan 10, 2012 at 17:37
now were cutting hairs. Rated recovery points, either for whinching or snatched are only bolted on to the car.

The ball and holding bracket are one, and dont have that shear point.

I would be interested to hear from someone in the UK who could tell us they have the same issues we have with our bolt on ball
.

Col
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