4WD Cars

Dear Robin,

Thanks for your reply.

I do not understand what you mean with the lowest life cycle cost. Is this the maintenance cost or something else? Please explain in more details.

Kind regards,

Colonel

Sorry Colonel

I have an engineering approach to everything and things like the fuel cost are just part of the story.

Life cycle cost embraces every cost from purchase to sale and all inbetween.

Fuel for example in the car I reffered to represents about 20% of the total running cost in the first 5 years of life.

If you used gas at 1/2 the price of petrol then your maximum potential cost saving would be 10% of the total life cycle cost and even less if it was diesel.

I'm more interested in hitting the 90% factor than the 10% factor.

So with depreciation accounting for most costs in cars up to roughly 10 years old this is the key factor in any cost based decison.

Sorry Paul I disagree, the problem was not the Lpg, but the vehicle your choose to convert. since 1996, through my job and also privately i would have done more than 1 million Klms in Dual/Fuel vehicles
1 VS Commodore 96 model done 380000 klm
1 VS Commodore 99 model done 420000 klm
Granted both cars had changeover heads @ around 80ooo k but were changed to Gas Heads [ Hardend Valves and seats ] then they were both trouble free for the rest of the Klms, and both running very well when we sold them I could list the others as well if you want, they include Falcons, Mazda, and my current vehicle 2011 Colarado Duel/Fuel Factory fitted direct injected Gas Returns 14 - 15 Ltr per 100 Not Towing, and 24 - 25 Ltrs p/100 towing my 19' Lotus Van 2400Kg fully loaded. ALL VEHICLES can be converted to Lpg
but it must be the right gas system and fitted by the right people Holden supply the Colarado with a Gas compliant engine and have the Gas fitted by HSV Holden, then it is covered by the full holden warranty,
If you were only getting 23 L / p100 out of the Prado. there was something wrong with your set-up, as my best mate who we travel with has a 2004 GXL Cruiser on Duel/fuel, and he is getting 18 - 19 l /100 and his is a V8

So Colonel do your home work and go with what you learn and Feel, as for our opinions, they are going to be wide and varied, Rgs dazren

Each to his own Dazren, but that's exactly the sort of advice I did listen to prior to going with LPG, ignoring the comments of people like me who just had really bad experiences.

The set up went back to the installer over & over because I wasn't happy and it cost me a really good friendship with the installer, who is reputed to be one of the best. It even went to the company (no names no packdrill) that made the kit for them to check and was no better.

The simple fact is the car was an absolute peach on petrol and a lemon on LPG.

Over the 4 years I had it, wherever I found anyone else with a 4x4 on gas I'd ask how they liked it and most did not have complimentary things to say about it. It gets back to power, reliability and range, all of which assume massive importance when they're not there, as distinct to a fair reduction in fuel costs which when you look at it isn't particularly significant anyway. I could have bought an awful lot of petrol with the $3000 it cost the govt to install it for me.

I could have put up with it a lot easier if it didn't absolutely butcher my fuel range

Fair comment Paul, as stated to each their own, and opinions will be wide and varied, No doubt that Prado's are a good car,I would have bought one, but i would NOT put one on Lpg, although the mates Cruiser is nearing 200000 K and no sign of any trouble at all [ it is a V8 ]
If I had your experiance at the start, it would no doubt have turned me off Lpg also, BUT after more than a million K on Lpg, I am happy to stay with it and pass on my experiances, Living in WA it looks like you do a bit of remote travelling, if so Lpg is really not for you anyway, Most of my travelling is done in Vic. SA, and NSW, where Gas is readily available and cheap, If i lived more remote I would be a diesel guy, happy travels mate, Rgs dazren

I've had a lot of lpg cars and not had the bad experience at all. I reckon the installer or equipment were in some way faulty to give you figures like that. I would have been spewing too. Chalked up at least 3 million kilometres on lpg.

Interesting reading...our 98 Prado has done over 100,000kms since the LPG conversion and we couldn't be happier with how it runs, servicing and the low cost of filling it up.

Mark.

Good luck to you guys, but the best in the business couldn't find out what was wrong with mine - everything all checked out ok except that it was very heavy on fuel and lacking in power. Which was what I was warned about before-hand. I just wish I had listened to those people rather than those who said yeah no worries - just do it!.

I guess my point is the risk isn't worth it. Even if it works well at say 17-18 ltr/100km, the fuel saving is infinitessimal (compared to the total cost of owning & running the car) and fades to insignificance alongside the reduction in fuel range and the risks on reliability and performance.

Dear mikehzz,

Thank for your reply.

If LPG is installed properly, do you think the engine will last longer on LPG or longer on petrol. How long do you think the average 4WD engine will last on LPG?

Thank you.

Sincerely,

Colonel

All of my 4wd's on LPG have gone 350,000 kms or more. The last one was a 3.3 litre Pathfinder that wasn't even using any oil on 350,000 kms. I traded it because it didn't have creature comforts and safety options. It was especially prone to skidding on wet roads. The rest of the car was starting to get dodgy but the motor was fine. I used to only service it every 6 months regardless of kms travelled so I can't complain.
I think that the heyday for cost savings using LPG are gone and will only get worse as the price rises in comparison to petrol. Out in the bush there is just about no cost saving at all and that has been the case since the late 70's anyway.
Diesels have the range advantage and the service intervals for the new ones are up around 12-15,000 kms or 6-12mths which is certainly an improvement on the 5k services of the Jap diesels. If something does go wrong them then unfortunately you need deep pockets.

"Even if it works well at say 17-18 ltr/100km, the fuel saving is infinitessimal (compared to the total cost of owning & running the car) and fades to insignificance alongside the reduction in fuel range and the risks on reliability and performance."

No doubt you were harshly bitten Paul but your experience obviously isn't the same across the board and as with everything in this game, there is no perfect set-up because everyone's situation different.
As noted the range is reduced but we managed to travel 25,000km towing our trailer with kids around Oz. With the sub tank of 69 litres, LPG 68 usable litres, plus 40litres in jerry cans on the trailer we had no issue with range and in fact didn't touch the jerry cans. We didn't go into the isolated desert tracks and if that was our thing we might look at a different rig. Now though we're back in town and you can't beat LPG prices here. Our Prado is nudging 300,000kms and is still running like a dream with little difference between LPG and petrol performance for us. We run it often on petrol and get the gas side of things looked at during servicing...no injector problems, fuel pump problems or 5000km oil changes to worry about, I'm glad now I didn't get the diesel Prado that was 5 - 8 grand more than our petrol Prado at the time. I think when you really look at total cost of ownership you can't say one is a clear winner over another.

Having said that I also have a 96 V6 petrol Triton and there is no way I would convert that to gas. They had a terrible reputation on gas and I'm not risking it. In terms of LPG vehicles I've had a 4.4L Rangie, 60 Series Cruiser, XF Falcon wagon and TN Magna wagon all on LPG so I've had plenty of experience dealing with LPG and I'm a convert.

Mark.

Dear Wade,

Thank you for the reply. I need to ask your opinion since you have a Disco II:

1. Which one is more reliable, the petrol on LPG or the TD5? Generally, which one is has less problems?

2. Do you think the head in Disco II is suitable for LPG? How long do you think the engine will last if treated properly? Do you need to install a valve safer as well?

Thank you for your reply.


Yours sincerely,

Colonel

The heads on all modern unleaded vehicles is OK for LPG. I have a V8 Landrover on both petrol and LPG - LPG gives a bit less MPG but the engine runs cleaner and there is less carbon build up.

I run on LPG whenever I can as even with a bit more fuel usage it is cheaper than petrol. I also have a Landrover with a TDV6 diesel and the fuel costs between it and the V8 truck on LPG work out about the same.

Personally I would go the TD5 over a V8 on LPG primarily because you will get further on a tank, there is diesel outback, where LPG is harder to come by.

Garry

Hi Colonel

Can't really help you with these questions, I've always prefered diesels over petrol. I would suggest that you put these questions on the www.aulro.com.au, I'm sure someone there could answer your questions

Wade

The newer diesels have the same or better service intervals as petrol. You have to buy a diesel car from brands who know how to make them properly.