log book concern?

Submitted: Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 18:04
ThreadID: 91402 Views:2329 Replies:12 FollowUps:2
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hi all,

just flew 1400klms to buy a 2nd hand 100 series cruiser wagon.

was told by the seller (car yard) it had log books and had been regularly serviced without any problems.

the seller went thought the log book with me on the phone and told me where the services were completed.

i attended to pick the car up and before i drove out of the yard asked where the log books were?

the seller claimed that the log books and owners manual had apparently been taken out of the vehicle where he was sitting in his office telling me when & where it had been serviced....

since then the whereabouts of the log book and owners manual is unknown!
they seem to have gone walk about.....

a phone call to the seller today to check up if they have been located and posted to me has revealed that the books cannot be located and he now wants to give me a 'replica book' to replace the original!

has anyone had this problem? is there anything i can do about it?
we are concerned this will eventually affect resale with 'replica' books!

he claims that the book will be stamped by the businesses that performed the services etc...

i have since registered the vehicle in NSW and bought accessories for it, it's not like i can return it!

concerned, and any advice would be greatly appreciated!

i have a reasonably nice vehicle but no books, not even a owners manual!

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Reply By: Les - PK Ranger - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 18:44

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 18:44

Cavea . . .Caveat Empo . . . Buyer beware !

This may (or may not) have been a shonky 2nd hand dealer, who knew you were flying a long way to pick up etc, and maybe stretched the truth to you on the phone.

How about if the vehicle was serviced by a regular service centre (dealer most likely), maybe they would be willing to write you a letter of statement of services, dates, km, repairs etc ???

That should be sufficent on their letterhead to provide proof of servicing.

If it was a small town, the dealer should recall who it was that did the servicing.

Hope you get something from them.

AnswerID: 475800

Follow Up By: Shaker - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:45

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:45
The law of Caveat Emptor does not apply in this case, because the buyer directly asked about the books prior to the purchase.
FollowupID: 750824

Reply By: vk1dx - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:16

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:16

You are in an awkward spot. What was just said by Les is a good start.

Send the seller a fax asking for a statutory declaration to cover both what he said on the phone and what he also said to you at pick up and since. I would put in it a suggested dialogue and say you supplied the words to make it easier for him and that you believe it is a true and honest recollection of what you two said. Maybe he will give you something.Send him the words to put in the statement and say that you believe they are what went on. You never know he may respond. Just a long shot but it does have legal implications that may help you. I suggest a fax as it is more proof of delivery than an email.

Best of luck.

AnswerID: 475804

Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:18

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:18
Have you phoned the previous owner and had a chat about the vehicle? If not I suggest you do to put your mind at ease.
AnswerID: 475806

Reply By: Capt. Wrongway - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:28

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:28
I would have been very concerned and would not have purchased the vehicle. I have actually had the exact thing happen to me many years ago. I had to threaten legal action ( or physical injury, his choice ) before I got my deposit back. This vehicle had some major problems, including a dodgey mileage reading. A friend of mine in the motor registry chased the rego to the previous owner who confirmed the much higher mileage.
I suggest that you have the vehicle inspected by NRMA ( or the like ) to determine if it has been regularly serviced and that there is no major mechanical issues with it. The log book issue is a problem, but the major concern is that his actions may be hiding something more sinister. I hope I'm wrong, good luck.
AnswerID: 475808

Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 at 08:47

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 at 08:47
I'm with you Capt. That would have rang alarm bells for me & I wouldnt have touched it. I have asked for log book samples to be faxed when looking at interstate
vehicles & nearly all dealers obliged. I hope in this case the car is genuine.....oldbaz.
FollowupID: 750873

Reply By: R Send - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:34

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:34
Have you thought about talking to your local Toyota dealer. They may be able to access the maintenance history for the vehicle!

AnswerID: 475809

Reply By: Pebble - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:55

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 19:55
It does sound a bit dodgy, although those things can happen.

We were selling a troopy once I think on consignment at a car yard / wholesaler in Perth, and the face plate from the stereo went missing. From memory this wasn't due to someone steeling it but due to the car dealership removing it from the vehicle for security reasons.
Can't say I'd be keen to use that car dealer again!

I'd be sure to get the car checked out at least for some piece of mind.
AnswerID: 475811

Reply By: get outmore - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:20

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:20
Fraud proper log books could be worth over 5000$ without them your vehicle is not worth what you paid. No buyer beware with a car yard the product must be as described. The log books either need to turn up. Or the vehicle returned or a cash settlement worked out
AnswerID: 475820

Reply By: Uncle-Laurie - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:29

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 20:29
When logbooks mysteriously disappear in car yards , it is for one obvious reason.......it's had a birthday, the speedo that is.!! check that there are no cracks in the plastic window that covers the speedo, its usually a dead give away that the speedo has been flicked.
Also check that the digits all line up fairly straight, if they are all up and down, its another clue that its been tampered with. these are things I always check for when buying used vehicles whether from a yard or private.

cheers Unc
AnswerID: 475821

Reply By: ss--ss - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 21:36

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 21:36
Hi, actually about 15 years ago I bought a commodore like that & dealer told me they misplaced the logbooks. After numerous calls I never got them except a new empty book.
Now I think about it I bet the dealer never had them !
AnswerID: 475831

Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 23:24

Monday, Jan 23, 2012 at 23:24
The possibility of speedo tampering has been mentioned and you have to make a decision about this if it has happened.
My view on the validity of servicing is this: A fully stamped log book from a dealer is just that, a stamped log book.
A lot of people place great importance on this, however, it is only a full and regular record of book stamping, not of servicing.
It is possible to have a book fully stamped and the vehicle actually having very little servicing at all. Engine oils, air and fuel filters and transmission lubricants may still be the originals in some cases, depending on the kms, but the book says it has been done on a regular basis.
As long as our society continues to support the delusion that a stamped book means a good vehicle a stamped book will appear important.
Most dealers DO NOT service vehicles fully and correctly and they don't usually use top lubricants.
Besides the servicing, it is how how the vehicle did the k's not necessarily how many k's it has done. Some poorly serviced lower K vehicles are not as good as some which have travelled further but serviced and treated with respect.
A vehicle manual you should have, a stamped book, I wouldn't worry too much cos it proves nothing.
Many dealers shorten the operating life of vehicles by their attitude and cost shift the repairs to whoever owns it out of warranty.
Never,never never trust a dealer.
AnswerID: 475837

Reply By: Kris and Kev - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:11

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 at 10:11
Same thing happened to us when we went looking at a 100 series at a major Brisbane car yard. Asked for the log book and the salesman opened the clove box and then said someone has taken it? He did not seem shocked; he said it happens all of the time. People just come along and take the log books out of the vehicles. He then could not give me the history of the vehicle. I saw this 100 had a turbo timer fitted and I asked him was that a factory fitted timer or an aftermarket one. He said there is no way to tell. We walked out of that yard; the salesman’s nose was getting too long....
Same with a sister in law recently. She bought a 2005 Landcruiser ute from a local yard and they could not find the log book? It had one they said, don’t know what happen to it?
I would think with all these log books going missing maybe the yards would be a bit more careful. Or could it be some sales people might not tell the whole truth...... Nooooooooooooooo.
AnswerID: 475864

Reply By: jothefw - Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 at 18:32

Tuesday, Jan 24, 2012 at 18:32
Sorry to hear your story.

We sold our Pathfinder last year to a buyer through the larger of the car sales websites.

He arrived to view the vehicle with me (female obviously) showing the vehicle. We'd arranged to meet away from our home, at a friends mechanics workshop. He could answer any servicing questions etc for me.

Anyway I sold the vehicle, received cash for a lot less than I'd hoped but I wasn't too disappointed.

Two weeks later a lady rang us (she'd found our details from calling the service agents) and she'd bought the vehicle from our purchaser via an auction site. He'd advertised it with 50,000 kms less than it's real kms. He'd stated one lady owner, fair enough, no off roading (ermmm we're farmers and we live in the desert!) and various other mistruths. She'd gone ahead and bought it still, for $4000 more than we'd sold it.

Mechanically sound we were able to truthfully tell her that we had confidence in the car but it begs the question ... if it wasn't as it should be, why had she gone ahead?

Anyway my point is - the dodgy car/history/sale - doesn't mean the vehicles necessarily dodgy. I would be more than happy to talk to any future purchasors of my vehicles if they rang (if you can track them down) but that said I suspect I shan't do a private sale again - it wasn't worth the hassle, I'd sooner do part exchange if possible and cut my losses, it's a lot less stress!
AnswerID: 475915

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