lockers

Submitted: Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 09:48
ThreadID: 91633 Views:3760 Replies:10 FollowUps:6
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I'm considering installing air lockers on my 80 series Landcruiser, the question is, front or back?
I've probably opened up a can of worms, but i'll weigh up the fors and againsts, and hopefully make a better informed decision.
Cheers
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Reply By: garrycol - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 10:07

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 10:07
Both positions work well but I would normally go for the rear - normally needed to push up a hill (is easier to push than pull) plus a locker in the front interfers with your steering when they are engaged.

However. (I don't have a Toyota) I believe you can get or already have a limited slip in the rear so then I would put the locker in the front as the LSD in the rear will still be doing a bit of work.

Garry
AnswerID: 476750

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 12:51

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 12:51
LSD in toyota's are like an open diff after about 20k, pretty well useless from the factory. I would go the rear first then up the front if $$$ allow for another .................Mitsi and Nissans have the best LSD I think nothing matches them.....
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Follow Up By: Hairs & Fysh - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 16:59

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 16:59
Yep agree,
I was thinking of having my rear lsd rebuilt in our 80, and was advised to put a locker in the rear for about the same price as rebuilding the lsd. The lsd will be useless after about 20k k's, better to spent it on a locker and then when you have enough coin to put one in the front., that's if you feel you need more.


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FollowupID: 751928

Reply By: gbc - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 10:17

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 10:17
If it was a nissan, holden, rover or anything but a toyota I'd say keep the LSD and stick the locker in the front.
Being a toyota though, the only LSD the poor thing's probably got left is the sticker on the diff.
An 80 with a rear locker goes anywhere.
AnswerID: 476751

Follow Up By: Kimba10 - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 12:53

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 12:53
""the only LSD the poor thing's probably got left is the sticker on the diff"" Yep got to agree with you gbc 100%, I had 4 toyotas with LSD and virtually useless when new and totally useless after 20k, you can pull them apart and get them redone but still fail after another 30k ...............
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 10:21

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 10:21
Hi Jamdan

The physics behind a locker is such it provides best result on the axle with the least articulation.

I.E. A wheel with less articulation will lift earlier , hence wheelspin , which locker is designed to stop.

There are many different senarios in which a 4wd may find itself , but a typical main use here in Vic is going up steep hill.
One would think that weight transfer to rear would mean locker in rear , however if you look at situation closer 2 things happen.

1/ Weight transfer to rear means suspension will conform to ground better hence less need for locker.

2/ As weight comes of front wheel then it is more likely to spin , and this is just what locker is designed to stop - hence locker in front.


In real practical tests we have well proven that for GU Patrols the front is the better choice as more than 50% of articulation is from rear.

For 80 series the result is not so clear and our careful tests with twin locked cars could not show an advantage for either end.

This result will be different for different vehicle setups.

Try this practical test- pump tyres up hard and go to a place you can't quite get thru.

Have someone see which end spins wheels - put locker there.


























Robin Miller

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AnswerID: 476753

Follow Up By: Whirlwinder - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 15:38

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 15:38
Robin,
We have an 80 series DX with an"open" LSD in the rear and a Lock Right locker in the front. I have not yet failed a hill (within reason). The set up works well.
I agree the Patrol LSD is so much better than the Toyota's.
Ian
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Reply By: Kanga1 - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 11:52

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 11:52
Jamdan, we have airlockers both ends in our Troopy. If I was doing it again, I would put an Autolocker (Detroit) in the rear and not bother at all in the front diff, but possibly buy a winch instead. If you have plenty of $ buy everything. Cheers, Kanga.
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AnswerID: 476762

Reply By: Steve63 - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 11:52

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 11:52
Question one should be "do I actually need lockers". 4WD shops will say yes most of the time because it is a sale. If you are planning to go somewhere where wheel spin will be an issue then why not. Don't get them for the sake of having them. Incorrectly used they can get you deeper into trouble.
Which end on a cruiser is a tough question and will depend on how you load your vehicle. The front brings issues with steering but if that is the end with the issues then so be it. Go somewhere with your vehicle loaded for a trip and try it out. If you are in a club go out with someone who has lockers and see how they are used. Just remember lockers do not componsate for poor driving technique.

Steve
AnswerID: 476763

Follow Up By: gbc - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 18:18

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 18:18
Lockers do compensate for poor driving technique.....
We've got a mate we call 'buttons'.
New to 4wd ing, bought a 4.2 patrol, sent it to ARB with a cheque for about $30k. It's an impressive rig.

The lines he chooses are atrocious, but with enough right boot and enough buttons he makes it almost every time. He always makes it further than me in a stock colorado and well considered lines.

It'd make you bloody sick.

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Reply By: pop2jocem - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 13:34

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 13:34
Hi jamdan.
Have a look at thread No 91572. The can of worms is already opened

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 476769

Reply By: Member - Tony (ACT) - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 14:38

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 14:38
I too had a Toyota with twin lockers. But I started with one in the rear and usedit all the time even in 2WD. When i put the front one in I still used the rear maybe 80 - 90 % of the time and the front in really tough tracks sometimes with chains on as well.

So my choice would be rear. And then if you think you need two go ahead wioth the front.
AnswerID: 476773

Follow Up By: Member - Rocker (NSW) - Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 19:00

Friday, Feb 03, 2012 at 19:00
Agree Tony, I have my GU Cab Chassis twin locked with the front only being used on the rare occassion to really pull me out of the crap.

Still. the times it's used it paid for it self pretty quick.
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FollowupID: 751939

Reply By: Member - hopbush - Saturday, Feb 04, 2012 at 10:14

Saturday, Feb 04, 2012 at 10:14
I have a 2005 Hilux and a great LSD.....I fitted an ARB airlocker to the front and now have the best of both worlds. You must bear in mind that if you fit a diff lock to the rear you lose any LSD capability when on open diff. I have travelled far and wide and have had no trouble with my front air locker (or compressor). Yes, the steering is a little heavier when engaged but it's a small price to pay.
AnswerID: 476834

Reply By: On Patrol & TONI - Saturday, Feb 04, 2012 at 13:34

Saturday, Feb 04, 2012 at 13:34
jamdan
Just my humble opinion, but, a locker in the wrong hands (read inexperienced 4wd driver) can just get one further into trouble before one realises that they are in trouble.

I have never owned or felt I needed a locker after many years of driving in this fair country, I do however asses a situation carefully before committing to it.

Someone here rightly said that on the front axle it inhibits steering to a large degree.

Correct tyre pressures combined with a good & smooth driving technique overcomes a lot of obstacles that some drivers overcome with lockers & in so doing cause some track damage that could have been avoided.

I guess this all depends on what you want to do with your car.

Cheers Colin.
AnswerID: 476846

Reply By: River Swaggie - Sunday, Feb 05, 2012 at 15:57

Sunday, Feb 05, 2012 at 15:57
Hiya jamdan

Ive always leant in the same direction as young Robin...

Although i would put a fulltime Lokka by Goanna Systems in the rear, i think thats there name and an ARB air locker for the front..At least the Air locker can be turned on and off not affecting the steering when you dont want it too..


Goodluck
AnswerID: 477001

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