Current 'technology' in QI globes???

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 10:33
ThreadID: 91762 Views:2216 Replies:8 FollowUps:9
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Hi all
Just fitting a couple of Cibie Super-Oscar lights to the (new) vehicle. The lights are about 40 years old, and have been used almost continually for that time.
They were originally off one of the Mitsubishi Team Southern Cross Rally Cars !!
Anyhow- I am only aware of the 55w and 100w H1 type globes. I guess things have changed in that time- so what's available now as replacement globes??
Yes, the bodys of the lights have a few dents, but the reflectors and lenses are still in good nick (have been renewed a couple of times in their life).
So whats new these days in QI globes??
Cheers
J&D
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Reply By: olcoolone - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 10:45

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 10:45
There is a lot of new technology with lighting in general over the last 40 years.... especially gas mixtures and temp colour (kelvins)

Have a look at this link and have a read..... trying to explain it over a forum is a hard thing to do..... in person so much easier.

http://www.lighting.philips.com.au/v2/automotive/product.jsp?menu=2_1&id=1053472

AnswerID: 477339

Follow Up By: wombat100 - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 10:56

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 10:56
Thanks mate...but what's with 5000k and 6000k etc???
Evem more confusing (to an ole bloke like me)...

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:37

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:37
Hi wombat,

The 5000K and 6000K refer to the colour of the light.

If a "Black Body" is sufficiently raised in temperature it emits visible light. The colour of that light is defined by the temperature of the Black Body, red light being at the lower temperatures (3000K) and blue & violet light at the higher temperatures (6000K).

The "K" is the notation for "Degrees Kelvin" which is an "Absolute" temperature scale with its zero reference point being at the low temperature where all thermal activity ceases. This is at a point 273 degrees below the Celsius zero.

So the lower numbers refer to more reddish light and the higher numbers refer to more bluish light.

Does that help?

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Rob! - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:44

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:44
2000K is about the colour of of the flame of a candle
3000K - typical incandescent globe
4000-5000K - the old flouros
5000 - 6000 typical HID car lights

so
2000K is more red
6000K is more blue
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Reply By: The Bantam - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:08

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:08
Philips have made a few minor advances in halogen lamp technology in the last few years.

In high power theatre lamps that has been significant....a small amount of that has rolled on into vehicle lighting lamps.

They have fiddled with filament alignment, but that is not as much of an advance in auto lamps.

The significant advances have been are

Efficiency....they have fiddled with the gasses and burn the filaments a little hotter.

Colour temperature.....reds and yellows are not particularly helpful to our vision so by burning the filament hotter and using colour correcting glass in the lamps, they have been able to produce a whiter light more toward the blue..and our eyes respond better to that.

If you compare a good quality lamp from the 80's with a current technology lamp it wont be startling but there will be a visable improvement.

The various suppliers have up to 4 grades of lamp now, ranging from the cheapie that represents the old technology up to their premium fancy blue lamp.

Is the extra cost worth it...hmmm...... well.....

Of course the biggest issue with the old style cibbies is how good the silver is on the reflectors.

cheers
AnswerID: 477345

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:59

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 12:59
Hi Bantam,

As you say, there have been advances in filament lamp technology, as distinct from High Intensity Discharge lamps.

Whilst generally increasing the light output, these improvements have also raised the colour temperature (degrees K) of the lamps. Blue tinting of these lamps is sometimes used to reduce the more reddish component of the output spectrum and that can be useful.

However some manufacturers of cheaper lamps are offering lamps with blue tinting but do not have an increased light output nor an elevated filament colour temperature. The light from these lamps is bluish and mimics those with a true higher colour temperature but does not offer significant benefit. All the blue tinting does on these cheaper lamps is reduce the light output in the lower and mid spectrum without increasing the overall light output. In short it is a con and the buyer should be wary of such lamps.

How do you pick the difference? I don't know, price is not always an indicator as some of the false ones are as dear as the genuine Philips lamps. Maybe stick to Philips or maybe you or someone else can help.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 14:14

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 14:14
There will always be some cheap nasty bastard who will knock up a cheap imitation to cash in on a trend.

How do you know when you are getting what you pay for.....you buy a reputable brand.

AND I mean the brand of an actual lamp manufacturer...in this case the only guaranteed brand I know of is "Philips"

They own lamp factories, R&D labs and several of the patents.

If I was just buying lamps.....there are several brands that are not lamp manufacturers that will supply a fair thing.

But If I am going to pay good money for a high performance halogen lamp of any size or shape I will buy philips.

cheers
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Reply By: gbc - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 17:28

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 17:28
I retrofitted some old H1 nitestalker 170's I had lying around with a set of evilbay chinese special 35w HID lamps and ballasts ($55.00). The slimline ballast fits in the rear of the light so it's basically just a plug job.
All I can say is 'whoa baby' every time I turn them on.... What did I do for lights before these came along? The light is so intense I'm seriously considering getting rid of the spot and having just two spread beams.
Then again blokes would understand the grin I get seeing a huge (and mostly useless) shaft of light shooting skyward from the spot as I crest a hill in slight mist ;)

Seriously though, the bulbs have turned a $150 set of cheap spotties into a $200 revelation.
AnswerID: 477369

Reply By: Member - MUZBRY(Vic) - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 21:06

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 21:06
Gday Wombat
So thats where the spotties went. I was involved with the Renault Southern Cross team in 1966/67/68



Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: wombat100 - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:35

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 12:35
My R8 Gordini is still running around somewhere !!!


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Reply By: Muntoo - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 00:08

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 00:08
For halogen, Philips have some great 100w globes available. Xtreme power and a few others. Anything from Osram, Philips, Hella or Narvas Premium range are good.

But HID is the way to go if you use your lights regular/long periods.

Very easy conversion with the Super Oscar.

Get a good quality kit from sellers on Ebay who have sold heaps of kits. Those like N Tech(newpro Tech) or 95soarer. Make sure they are slimline full digital kits though, DO NOT BUY ANYTHING ELSE.

I sold HID lights and kits for a few years, and have just stopped. I am open to any questions or info. I am not biased on type or anything, just like to help others out.
AnswerID: 477389

Reply By: Gossy - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:37

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 10:37
why not just upgrade the spotties? Cibies are sub standard to what is out now. I bought a pair a few years ago and took them straight off again, put in a lower wattage globe and use it as a camping light. Very average light that lives on reputation. For a bit more money you can get cheaper spotties with better performance.
AnswerID: 477409

Follow Up By: wombat100 - Monday, Feb 13, 2012 at 15:33

Monday, Feb 13, 2012 at 15:33
I guess it's just sentimental to keep the Ole Cibies- they have been with me thru many adventures !!

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Reply By: Ross M - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 20:27

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 20:27
Qi or Quartz Iodine disappeared a while ago and Qh is Quartz Halogen the most common now days. Xenophot globes are used in some lights now.

Because you have good reflectors in good design lights then you probably won't have to use high powered globes in an attempt to see to the next mountain which is way beyond the normal vision and braking distance.
By using a relay which is fed from the output terminal of the alternator, instead of the battery + terminal, you will get full charge voltage to your lights.

Now you can use 55w globes of your choice colour temp amd get a very good life out of the globes and excellent light output too. This is because the globe is running full otuput and also not subject to great thermal shock as 100w+, globes are.

The 55w demands less alternator current about half the amps and it makes your alt brushes last longer and the wiring can be less size than a 100w would need.

55w globes:
* last far longer
* start quicker
* use half the power
* give about the same light output because voltage at the globe is higher. 0.5v makes a big difference in light output.
* the full colour temp is gained because of the good voltage
* dont cause relay failure because of burning/welding points together
* cheaper to buy
* they don't get as hot and don't burn modern plastic reflectors as 100w + do
* you can run more lights if you wish with no more load

I know this is not the thinking of the modern man. Most are bred to believe bigger is better. BIGGER IS BETTER.
I believe thinking is better, I have never used 100w or130w globes.

Don't follow the pack. Lead the pack.

Ross M i no nuffing
AnswerID: 477450

Follow Up By: wombat100 - Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 at 11:31

Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 at 11:31
Hiya Ross
Interesting comment about taking the power feed direct from the alternator.
Would that not be unregulated voltage????
I'm a bit dumb here !! What would be the voltage difference from the alternator output and the Battery ??
Cheers (and thanks for your input)

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Follow Up By: Ross M - Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 at 15:06

Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 at 15:06
Gday wombat100

Do you mean "would that be unregulated voltage or would it be regulated???

The main terminal coming out the back of an alternator is connected directly to the B+ terminal on the battery so is definitely regulated voltage.

There is no unregulated voltages available from an alternator.

A small voltage difference at the base of a 100w globe or 130W globe will dull its colour temperature so effective light is less, not much but is less.

Because the 55w is not demanding so much current the voltage drop at its base is less, therefore it glows brighter with full cour temp happening.

At high alternator output eg at night. There has to be a drop in voltage between the alt terminal and the other end of its charge wire at the battery where light relays are usually connected.

So connecting light relays to the alt output terminal eliminates one source of voltage drop. This means the best to your globes no matter what wattage is used.
The difference between the alt or battery connection can be 0.4 or more sometimes depending on the wire size the maker used, how long it is, how secure the connections are and how much current is being asked to flow through it. 0.4v will dull a 100w globe slightly.
We are just talking about getting the most for the least here. Less cost, less amps, less heat, but good lights.
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 at 19:03

Sunday, Feb 12, 2012 at 19:03
Hi Ross, interesting idea taking the lamp feed directly from the alternator to increase lamp lumen output.

Certainly the output of a halogen lamp increases with the 3rd power of the voltage increase, so for your quoted increase of 0.4 volts (above a nominal 13v at the battery terminal) the lumens will increase by approximately 9%.

On the downside, the life of the lamp decreases dramatically with voltage increase to the tune of -14th power, so for the same 0.4 volts, the life of the lamp is reduced to approximately 75%.

Some may still consider the loss in lamp life to be worth the gain in lumen output.

This lamp nomograph may be of interest.

Image Could Not Be Found

Cheers
Allan

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