power consumtion upright fridge/freezer

Submitted: Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 15:27
ThreadID: 91769 Views:6825 Replies:9 FollowUps:25
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hi

I had to replace a Japan imported fridge in my camper,
and have chosen the Waeco cr1080 for it's
price and dimensions to the space inside, 80l.

I was pretty surprised that it draws up to 6 ampere, mostly, sometimes only 4ampere.!
Best conditions, cool summer, empty and well ventilated at the back.

That is a bit much for my system, even thou there are 200ah batteries.
What are your experiences with those fridges?
Is there an energy saving mode?

cheers
Chris
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Reply By: Bush Wanderer - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 16:45

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 16:45
I have a 5 amp fuse on this fridge and has never blown.
It does not run all the time.....generally a maximum of 30% running time over an hour on your average day. That's less than 2 amps on hour. On a very hot day it goes as high as 50% of the time, but that's parked in direct sunlight. I have now insulation bag either.
Fridge has lasted up to 5 days before low battery cut out kicked in. 100 amp battery.
AnswerID: 477364

Follow Up By: Bush Wanderer - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 16:49

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 16:49
Oops just googled your fridge. Saw the 80 litre and assumed normal car style fridge. Uprights do use more due to cold air falling out when opening the fridge.
I had an engel 90litre upright in our old camper.....that killed 75amp hour batteries in a day.
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FollowupID: 752557

Follow Up By: farouk - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 19:48

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 19:48
Bush Wanderer,
Re your statement below

Fridge has lasted up to 5 days before low battery cut out kicked in. 100 amp battery.

This does not add up, going on your figures of 2 amp per hour that adds up to 48 amphours per day, in 5 days you would have a usage of 240 Amphours and as you have not stated any solar r other charging source your statement just does not add up
Colin
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FollowupID: 752565

Follow Up By: Bush Wanderer - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 20:18

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 20:18
Cooler days the fridge runs less than warmer days.
I have often had up to 5 days without panels, on cooler days.
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FollowupID: 752567

Follow Up By: apwaddo - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 20:49

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 20:49
Yet another miracle fridge and battery that defy all previous known laws of electricity and power consumption!!!
Next he'll be telling us he also runs lights, TV, chargers etc off the same battery and stilll has enough left to light up the flood lights on the local footy ground!

Ah - hang on I have the answer - by 'cooler days' you mean where max temp is 4'c!

Sorry I take it all back.
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FollowupID: 752569

Follow Up By: isuzuelf - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 23:14

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 23:14
easy guys ;o). thanks for your posts

I had an Engel Eclipse 38liter in my previous camper,
that was harmless with about 2.4 ampere, bad insulation.
So why shall a fridge double in size draw the double current?
It should be less, because it's more efficient.
Just talking about the amps, not how long and often it runs.

If the battery has 12.3V and it droops to 12V as soon I start the fridge,
that's what I hate. This are 2 Victron AGM batteries!

I charge by solar or manually through alternator.
On the long term that's gonna damage my batteries.
All goes over a solar charger with cut out at 11.2V,
but anyway, I don't want to this every morning.

I don't know
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FollowupID: 752586

Follow Up By: isuzuelf - Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 23:24

Thursday, Feb 09, 2012 at 23:24
maybe ... to understand that thing a bit better,
why is it able to draw 6A st the beginning and goes down
to 4,5A? That compressed should be fixed at one speed, and there
is a cooling fan running as long the compressor is running, so that
doesn't make the difference.

In the same opening I had an Electrolux 65l sitting, 3 way and
on top a factory installed compressor.
Should have kept it, could have drawn more amps
Just the compliance workshop didn't trust the LPG part, and than 110V
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FollowupID: 752588

Follow Up By: Bush Wanderer - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 00:15

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 00:15
apwaddo

Just another great oziexplorer reply
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FollowupID: 752591

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:18

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:18
Hi
Re:"maybe ... to understand that thing a bit better,
why is it able to draw 6A st the beginning and goes down
to 4,5A? That compressed should be fixed at one speed, and there
is a cooling fan running as long the compressor is running, so that
doesn't make the difference.""

The answer is simple
The Waeco uses a variable speed Danfoss unit not a fixed speed unit ,
Put simply ,It uses the high speed "boost" mode when the low speed cannot hold the temperature & for fast cooling when warm.

Size does matter in overall losses that have to be accounted for by running longer & using more power
The average daily consumption can vary widely depending on thermosetting ,ambient temp , loading & door opening Can range from 30 amp hrs per 24hrs to 100 amp hrs per 24hrs

They cannot perform miracles

Peter

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FollowupID: 752617

Follow Up By: P2D2 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 14:56

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 14:56
oldtrack123 posted:
The answer is simple
The Waeco uses a variable speed Danfoss unit not a fixed speed unit ,
Put simply ,It uses the high speed "boost" mode when the low speed cannot hold the temperature & for fast cooling when warm.

Wrong again and rubbish that model or any other model Waeco fridge does not have an automatic variable speed module fitted. A manual boost can be fitted, but definitely not automatic. The Waeco CR range do not need or require a manual boost switch. The compressor operates at the predetermined set fixed speed. Waeco CR range is fitted with Danfoss with 101N0500, 12/24VDC and 100-240V AC 50/60Hz module.
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FollowupID: 752725

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 18:40

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 18:40
Hi P2D2
RE:"Wrong again and rubbish that model or any other model Waeco fridge does not have an automatic variable speed module fitted"""

You are right with some models having an option to fit a manual switched speed option to those models that are set when sold to max speed
However many models do have the VSMO as standard

See link "
http://www.portablefridgesonline.com.au/portable-fridges/waeco-cf-40.html

Quote:
•4-speed variable speed motor with VMSO technology (Variable Motor Speed Optimisation), which enables the adjustment of compressor speed depending on the existing and set temperature
•Soft-start
•Turbo functions for rapid cooling[End quote]

So your statement above is rubbishl!!!!
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FollowupID: 752745

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 19:16

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 19:16
Hi Re aboce post
I cannot edit ,, I should add

You are correct the model in question does not have the VSMO

Possibly, no front opening door upright models have VSMO ,perhaps that is what you meant

Peter
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FollowupID: 752747

Reply By: wombat100 - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:49

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:49
We have the CR1110 version of your fridge, and are NOT happy with it's performance at all. It is very power hungery, difficult to stabilise a temperature, and not at all efficient in hot weather (even with the optional 'tropical' fan operating. !!!
Just over 12 mths old , and the voltage module has shat itself- works OK on 12v- but no go on 240v.




AnswerID: 477403

Follow Up By: Member - Noldi (WA) - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:55

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:55
Ditto Wombat

No where near as efficient as the chest fridge, I have both in my bus.
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FollowupID: 752620

Follow Up By: P2D2 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 14:58

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 14:58
What optional 'tropical fan operating'? There are no options for the Waeco CR range. The CR range is tropical rated out the box.
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FollowupID: 752726

Follow Up By: P2D2 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:02

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:02
If the 240V part of the module has failed, Waeco will happily repair under warranty. Reason why you get a warranty if something fails the manufacturer or agent will repair or replace.
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FollowupID: 752728

Follow Up By: wombat100 - Monday, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:51

Monday, Feb 13, 2012 at 11:51
P2D2
Check out Part No. 3108705.751
Power Ventilator Assembly
Known 'in the trade' as tropical fan option !!!



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FollowupID: 752882

Reply By: MEMBER - Darian, SA - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:52

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 09:52
All sounds about right from experience with my (other brand) fridges and from what I've read here and elsewhere - as fridges get larger, after a certain point the motor/compressor units jump to a larger size (and take more power). Insulation efficiency may be less than you hoped for (depends on design and materials used - one custom fridge maker will use insulation 100mm+ thick, if you need it for super efficiency). Opening the large door lets a lot of warm air in (but one guru has suggested that this is not a huge factor in fridge efficiency, seeing that the actual heated mass in that air is not great - suggesting that the fridge can easily account for that in a short time - this may be true :-o). Seems you'll have to 'up' your energy supply levels to match your new consumption levels. !
AnswerID: 477404

Follow Up By: isuzuelf - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:12

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:12
Thanks,
so other brands of that size behave the same
for the record, the door lock mechanism is weak,
the light switch pusher jumps out, a shelf is missing in the door,
where the 100liter model has one.
I might kick the 110V generator out, replace the weight with another battery
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FollowupID: 752616

Follow Up By: P2D2 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:01

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:01
The Waeco CR door lock mechanism is twin locking and works perfectly. You will find whoever installed the fridge never adjusted the door correctly when they switched over the opening from left to right hand opening.
Same with the light switch pusher. All caused by incorrect door adjustment.
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FollowupID: 752727

Reply By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:28

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:28
Hi
Re :"I had to replace a Japan imported fridge in my camper""

Was it just the fridge that was imported or the whole camper?

If it was the whole camper, you could have other serious compliance problems
ALL of the electrics !
ALL of the gas !!
& RTA problems

Various authorities have now WOKEN up to what has been going on with noncompliance to Aus Standards

Peter
AnswerID: 477413

Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 21:34

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 21:34
Peter,

Judging by his followup above, he may be O/S. ie: "kicking out the 110v genny, to make room for another battery."

Aussie compliance probably mean "jack" to him?

Bob.
Seen it all, Done it all.
Can't remember most of it.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

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FollowupID: 752673

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 22:04

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 22:04
Hi Bob
For his sake, I hope you are correct
I had just started my post when SHWBO called me
When i came back I just continued my Slooow one finger typing then posted

Peter
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FollowupID: 752678

Follow Up By: isuzuelf - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:58

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:58
Yes, had to replace the japanese one for compliance.
They would have disconnected has and 110V elswise.

The whole camper is Japanese, Isuzu Elf 150 terra 500
I ll kick the old petrol generator 110v and it's tank out, camper is a diesel.
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FollowupID: 752732

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 17:36

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 17:36
HI isuzuelf
I am not sure just what you mean
Are you in Aus ?
Does the camper still have OTHER 110v equipment supplied by a 240v t0 110v transformer?
If so you will have further problems
That is definately not approved by the Aus electrcal Atandards

Peter
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FollowupID: 752736

Follow Up By: isuzuelf - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 17:55

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 17:55
sure I am in AUS
No problems, no worries, all complies now
new tyres
new gas pipes in copper
new stove
new fridge
new 240v electric
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FollowupID: 752740

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 18:08

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 18:08
Hi isuzuelf

Good to see it is now all ok

The checks are getting more thorough!!!
Some with large units are finding major costs in complying ,NOW
Those that have got away in the past had better not let their rego lapse.
Do you think you came out on top???!

Peter
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FollowupID: 752742

Reply By: The Bantam - Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:54

Friday, Feb 10, 2012 at 11:54
we all have to remember the words of Scotty..." ya can'a change the laws of physics jim".

All too often people get far too optomistic with their curreent drain expectations and beliefs associated with fridges.

AND the manufacturers specifications don't help..they too are always optomistic.

What Ya have there is a full blown household fridge running on 12 volts, though it may be small.

To my knoweledge none of the currently available 12 volt fridges have inverter bassed motor drives and thus they draw a fixed current when the motor is running.

This is a fridge / FREEZER..as soon as you say the F word the energy required bumps up.

the manufacturer quotes the average current draw as being arround 1.8 amps at 25C and 2.1 amps at 35C.........these will be figures derived with the door closed and the unit in free air...and who knows what else to make the figures look good....those figures will be optomostic and can never be relied upon.

If the fridge is empty, it has little thermal mass and the motor will cycle excessively.......every time a motor starts it draws many times its running current.

On those manufacturers figures alone to run 24 hours you will need at least 100 AH of battery so as not to over cycle the battery.
With 200Ah of battery ( in good helath) the best you can hope reliably is 2 days...go 3 days and you are probably pushing your batteries too far...and that is all theoretical fugures.
In reality you have a 24 hour package there.


The fridge in question also has interior lighting and an auto defrost function......they all cost energy.

and as mentioned when you open that big vertical door all the cold air falls out.

There is also 1 thing that knobbles 90% of refrigerators even at home......is they are generally not run in free air......the get built in or jammed between stuff and this very badly effects their efficiency.


Is there forced ventilation in the cavity the fridge is built into.

Another thing that badly effects efficiency of 12 volt fridges is voltage drop...we only have 12 volts and if one goes missing that is near 10% loss...and the motor efficiency will drop...if there is one thing in a caravan that should be wired heavily to the point of excess that is the fridge.

now to the bloke running a 6 amp fridge on a 5 amp fuse....of course it will run...most standard fuses will hold twice their rated current for 60 seconds and 1.5 times their rated current continuously for a hour....6 amp will run thru a 5 amps fuse almost indefinitely..definitely not good practice for a number of reasons but it will go.

Remember fuses in installations are designed to protect wiring, if the current drawn by the device is 6 amps the minimum fuse size should be 7.5 amps.

Remember caravans even the expensive ones are built to a price point and "most people" only expect their batteries to hold up their fridge while they travel between locations.

to install a battery / power system that will hold up for a week will cost considerably more than most caravan salesmen have the balls to pitch and more than most people want to pay.

cheers
AnswerID: 477415

Reply By: P2D2 - Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:16

Saturday, Feb 11, 2012 at 15:16
CR80 uses 2.0Ah at 25°C temperature and 2.4Ah+ at 32°C temperature with 5°C cabinet temperature.

If you are attempting to recharge your batteries with the alternator they will never get fully charged. You may get to 60% charge with a direct alternator charging. Use a Ctek D250S Dual DC/DC charger with a Ctek Smartpass if necessary to fully charge your battery bank from the alternator. While some here have miracle fridges that use miracle never flattening batteries and can supposedly fully charge an auxiliary battery sadly they are technically deluded and they also experience dream time fairy fantasies.
AnswerID: 477492

Follow Up By: oldtrack123 - Monday, Feb 13, 2012 at 13:46

Monday, Feb 13, 2012 at 13:46
Hi P2D2


Re "You may get to 60% charge with a direct alternator charging. ""

What a load of rubbish!

Perhaps you should quaiify THAT half baked comment with some explanations

t
Peter
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FollowupID: 752893

Reply By: isuzuelf - Monday, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:13

Monday, Mar 12, 2012 at 12:13
My altenator charges my aux 200ah batteries with up to 13.2V,
thats all what we need inorder to get enough currend flow into them.
how do you get that high voltage at the end of the cable?
Choose a big diameter, 6mm will do, that's what I had to choose to make the Waeco even start. With the old 1,5 mm cables it didn't had it's 12V when it pulled it's 6 and more ampere during startup.
I have news about the CR1080
It is rusting, unbelievable. When I installed a relais at the back, that makes it easier to switch it off every night and when I need power for something else, I found surface rost spots on several areas of the piping in the back, around the fan.
That is after 3 month, how does that look in 3 years, after more humidity and salty air has been blown in by the fan?
To the power consumption. Waeco support on the phone said it would have an average 5a/h consumption, which would be low, he said.
Engel support for their 80 liter model, which is much larger, because it is obviously made with insulation, say, it would take an average of 2,5a/h.
The Waeco support on the phone said it would have insulation of 35mm, I just measured 26mm, and that is the hole wall thickness left and right at the front.

The fridge I replaced, an 1996 60 liter electrolux, was covered on the side with salty corrosion from Japanese winters, but it was nowhere rusted, just in great shape.
Man, I should have kept it!!!
AnswerID: 480147

Follow Up By: isuzuelf - Tuesday, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:35

Tuesday, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:35
have to correct my previous post. As I just saw in my notes,
Waeco support stated 2,5a/h for their fridge, just like Engel.
That is 5A, assuming it runs 30 min within an hour.
I got an free offer to let a Waeco service measure power consumption for 24h.
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FollowupID: 755741

Reply By: chis@du - Friday, Apr 13, 2012 at 13:50

Friday, Apr 13, 2012 at 13:50
hi, did anybody had a rust problem with them and a proper solution to solve it by Waeco? I found posts that even after replacement they keep rusting again
AnswerID: 482995

Reply By: isuzuelf - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 04:29

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 04:29
my question to Waeco in USA waeco.com
16.04.2012

Dear support,

I am considering a Waeco cr1080 upright fridge as replacement for a 3way fridge that sits in the bench at the back of my Motorhome, gets outside ventilated. I know there is air pressure in the back while driving and also the fan will pull air in, so that humidity and salt might come to the back of the fridge.
Would you say a Waeco CR1080 can handle it in regards to rust?

Thanks
Cheers
---------------------------
and here their answer
18.04.2012
Dear

The unit is not designed to be exposed to the outside like you are talking about.

It normally uses inside air to cool the coils.


We appreciate this opportunity to address your situation, and hope all your future travels are trouble free. Please do not hesitate to contact us any time, to order parts or if  we can be of assistance.

Customer Support Center
800 544 4881
RV.Com / DometicUSA.com
Dometic LLC

To ensure an accurate response, respond by 'Reply'-ing to "customersupportcenter@dometicusa.com".  The e-mail address that this reply came from does not accept incoming e-mail. Also, please add prior correspondence to all future emails.



AnswerID: 483325

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