Bolognaise sauce cryovaced

Submitted: Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 07:53
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Hi all you camp cooks. Can anyone tell me from practical experience how long it is safe to keep pre made bolognaise sauce cryovaced in the frig? Have used cryovaced steak after five weeks and it is great although when first opened very dark but soon turns back to normal color when exposed to the air. Also is there any difference between the cryovacing done by a butcher and that done using one of the small home machines?
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Reply By: s&p5762 - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:39

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:39
Morning Old Fellow, I made these same enquiries myself a couple of years ago and was told that the butchers use a gas as well as removing all of the air. I still vucuum seal our food, but don't keep it in the fridge as long. Even steak that has been vacuum packed and kept frozen, is dark when first opened, must be something to do with air removal. I will be watching the answers you get with interest.
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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Mar 25, 2012 at 00:52

Sunday, Mar 25, 2012 at 00:52
Only the big meat processing plants use a gas (nitrogen).
They start by sucking as much air out as possible,then fill it with nitrogen.
Then they remove the nitrogen and seal the bag
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Reply By: Member - nick b - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:46

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:46
have a look at old thread 3479 ....
Cryovacing

cheers nick
Cheers Nick b
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Reply By: Ray 3 - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:54

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 08:54
Home vacuum systems only remove about 70% of air on average, so are not as efficient or effective as professional units. I would not leave home vacuumed food longer than 5 days and certainly a week at most, I have had fresh fish after 5 days and whilst it was good, you could tell that it was on the latter days of its shelf life.
For me 4 to 5 days for seafood and perhaps double that for meats and other foods, it may last longer but I would go past those points.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 13:13

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 13:13
Ray, what is the source of your statistic of only 70% air removal for "home systems"?

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Reply By: Mick O - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:26

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 10:26
I use a cryovac unit bought at Aldi for $80. A great product but for extended trips, I will often freeze the products also. A day or more before intended use I place a frozen article in the fridge which also helps with keeping things cool and reduces power consumption of the fridge while the food thaws.

I’ve done much the same with both a bolognaise and pasta sauces as well as stews. Providing the sauce is a vegetarian (Napolitana) or red meat and does not contain an abundance of dairy products, it should be as good as red meat in the longevity steaks. Just make sure to move the sauce around in the packet as it is being sealed to ensure that no air bubbles are trapped in the corners of the bag etc.

The longest I’ve had red meat in the fridge on a home cryovac is about 2 weeks. Chicken is a week maximum. Same with fish and any seafood although I would add it’s desirable to eat those food types as soon as possible. The main difference I’ve noted with the butchers cryovac systems is besides the power of the units, the plastic bags are usually a lot thicker and therefore a bit more robust. The home Cryovacers are great for packing down dry products to reduce space and keep them fresh, teabags or rice for example.

Cheers, Mick
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Reply By: get outmore - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 11:45

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 11:45
vaccume packed meat or indead any meat not exposed to the air including if 2 steaks sit on one another the myglobins in the meat turn into metmyglobins which are darker in color , once exposed to thje air they once again bond with oxygen turning into oxymyglobins returing to thier red color. over time thier ability to do so diminishes so meat can remain darker

has no effect on meat whatsoever

butchers dont use gas when cryovaccing although alot of units can be used this way. its more to replace air with an inert gas like nitrogen rather than vaccume pack and would be used when you want to preserve something you dont want to crush examples being nairne bread in the supermarket or salads

personally i would not vaccume packed cooked food, any food you rarely see it in shops for a good reason (except canned foods but thats a bit different again) and what you do see has been cooked and packed specifically to kill anaerobic bacteria
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Follow Up By: Rod W - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 13:04

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 13:04
So we have a goblin or two eh
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Follow Up By: Member - DingoBlue(WA) - Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 18:19

Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 18:19
If your goblin and mygoblin met would that be a metmygoblin?
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:20

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:20
We personally wouldn't vacuum pack bolognaise sauce - its too hard compared to buying a can or jar of the stuff that keeps forever. I expect you'd have to freeze it first, otherwise the fluids will get sucked out and you'll fail to seal the bag. Not sure how long it would keep.

We are happy to use vacuum packed red meat (no bones) up to 6 weeks - in an engel fridge that has been set to a constant 2 degrees. Chicken (breast only) about 10 days.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:58

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 12:58
Yes, agree with you on all points Phil.

Not worth mucking around with vacuuming liquids, especially when there is an alternative.

And, in accordance with the instruction book, we also keep vacuumed red meat for 6 weeks at <4 degrees. Boned chicken no more than 2 weeks but are considering not bothering with it at all.

It even works in a Waeco! Must be a great vacuum machine. LOL

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Follow Up By: Ray 3 - Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 14:58

Friday, Mar 23, 2012 at 14:58
This is the unit that I own and I purchased it because of the quality and the higher vacuum rating, as you can see it removes just over 70% of the air which is higher than most of the home sealers.
I did have a cheaper vacuum sealer but was not happy with it and replaced it with this one.


http://www.natureswonderland.com.au/shop/vacuum-packing/range/ezivac
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 01:06

Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 01:06
I would be careful as to how you use the word cryovac. Unless you use the correct equipment then you have not cryovaced your food, you have only vacuum packed it. There is a bit of difference in the keeping time.

See this link




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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 14:43

Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 14:43
The difference is that Cryovac is a registered trade mark for one manufacturer of vacuum food packaging machines. There is no valid reason to believe that a quality domestic vacuum machine is inferior to the Cryovac brand or to commercial machines. Commercial machines using a vacuum chamber rather than an external bag, do so for ease of operation rather than superior vacuum. It is not difficult to produce a vacuum pump capable of achieving the necessary vacuum level for satisfactory preserving quality, although the domestic pumps may take longer. My own machine incorporates a pressure sensor that will not allow the sealing process to proceed unless the required vacuum has been achieved and I would not be surprised if all machines incorporated such safeguard.

A lot of expressions regarding vacuum packaging machines seem to be made on assumptions rather than established facts.

Incidentally, the word "Cryo" is a prefix meaning "very cold", below -150C, and it would seem the the company using "Cryo" ahead of "vac" is trying to improperly identify with the science of cryogenics or deep freezing of food for preservation although I have no reason to believe that they are less than a good quality product.

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Follow Up By: ross - Sunday, Mar 25, 2012 at 01:05

Sunday, Mar 25, 2012 at 01:05
Multivac seem to have overtaken Cryovac these days.

But removing the air is one part ,keeping as cold as possible without freezing it the other.
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Follow Up By: Begaboy - Saturday, Mar 31, 2012 at 13:58

Saturday, Mar 31, 2012 at 13:58
we use BOTH Multivac and Cryovac down here .... very good machines in there own right and FAR from domestic machines in regards to there capability ...
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Reply By: Member - The old fellow - Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 14:02

Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 14:02
Thanks guys for your comments.
First I should mention that the steak I used after five weeks was cryovaced by our local butcher and not by a home unit. It was cyovaced and immediately placed in our Waeco at 3 degrees C.
I personally would be most cautious in relation to the claims made by some of the sales persons at the 4x4 shows who are selling the hand pump type vacume sealing machines. Great for nuts etc.
As Peter D says - true cryovacing done commercialy is rather different to vacuum sealing done at home. Personally if I am to pack my fridge with a large quantity of food I dont want it to be useless after a few weeks.
Phil G - yes I have decided to use the canned variety of spag bol. sauce rather than play around with the home made variety.
I get six or seven weeks out of sausages that have been bought when freshly made, simmered gently in water until cooked through and then commercially cryovaced. They look a bit on the pale side but fry brilliantly without splattering. Or can be cut up and put into a curry. Thanks again.
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Reply By: The Bantam - Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 16:52

Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 16:52
With all these things you have to play to the strength of the ingredient and the method.

AND ya need to look at the desired outcome.

I have yet to do any vac packing but I do my fair share of freezing and bottling.

If you are looking at heat and eat, and short storage times I see no problem with the pasta sauce...but why stop there package the whole portion including the pasta in the vac pack....
select a pasta that does not provide any voids and the pasta in the mix....if the ratio is right..should imobilise the wet portion of the sauce, to allow a sucessfull suck & seal.

It can then be heated in a billy of water in the sealed bag.

I do pasta meals weeky in tubs, if lidded hot it will keep in the fridge 2 to 3 days no worries so a week if vac packed should be easily reasonable......if you deep freeze the packages straight away then pack them into the fridge for the trip straight from the freezer the thawing process should buy you another 2 to 3 days depending on how cold the fridge is and the mass of the frozen contents.

For long term, by far the best option would be to prepare the non meat, non dairy portion of the pasta sauce and bottle it in meal sized portions.......this way you dont have to put up with the excessive salt and sugar in the commercial products.

You can very sucessfully bottle stuff in standard good quality used bottles....jam jars are good.

I have tried the whole vacola thing...but there is no need to go that far..as long as the sauce is very hot when the cap is screwed on and the bottle and lid have been sterilised by boiling, the seal and the result will be as good as commercial.... no sorry better.

I have had home bottled rosella jam be totaly edible after 7 years if lacking a little in colour.

Standard supermarket packages of cheese will last 6 months in refrigeration...so vac packing cheeze is a no brainer

so that leaves the meat component....how far you will to process that depends on you......raw meat vac packed is a known thing.
If the meat is cooked fresh and packed while hot, or water bath cooked in the sealed vac pack it should keep better than raw bay far.

Heston Bluminthal has done plenty of this sort of stuff and it has been on some of his shows..might be worth a google.

cheers
AnswerID: 481274

Reply By: Shaker - Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 17:01

Saturday, Mar 24, 2012 at 17:01
Our butcher told us that anything with onion in, will only last around 7 days.
AnswerID: 481275

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