Waeco CDF-11

Hey people,

Just wondering if anyone has experience with this fridge freezer. Particularly interested in power consumption as this information does not seem to be readily available.

I am thinking that this may make for a handy separate freezer to accompany a 40lt fridge.

Any help would be appreciated.

Simon
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 16:46

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 16:46
Hi Simon,



The Waeco catalog page for this product is here.

And the Waeco instruction book is here.

It is a compressor-type fridge and the specifications state "Power consumption Max =30 Watts". Which at nominal 12v is approx. 2.5Amps and I presume that would be continuous if running as a freezer, and somewhat less if running at say 4C. Its temperature control range is specified as -18C to +10C.

I have no experience with this product.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:24

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:24
Thanks Allan,

I had come across that, I was hoping someone would have some actual hands on experience for real world consumption.

But based on those figures, 2.5ah continuous seems pretty damn thirsty for such a little fridge, wouldn't exactly be practical (would only manage 24hrs on a 100ah!).
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:30

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:30
That's about right.

I had a 110 liter Waeco for Avery short period of time.

It could flatten 2 x 105 AHr AGM'si in 24 hours in moderate temperatures, minimal opening and a conservative thermostat setting.

Somewhere I have some real logged data for it.

Geoff,
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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:32

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:32
Yes but Geoff that was a 110ltr, this fridge is only 11ltrs (tiny). I would have assumed that this would mean lower power consumption
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:56

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 17:56
The CDF 11 is a Piezo unit isn't it?

Not a compressor fridge.

If my memory is correct on them the consumption is about right.

Geoff,
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:00

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:00
Yes Simon, It is hard to make sense of Waeco's specifications. The seem to express differently for each product.

For example, whilst they quote "Max 30W" for the 10.5 litre CDF-11, they then express the 31 litre CF-35 as "Power Ave. power consumption: 0.85 amps/hr" when at 5c/32c, which equates to 15Watts. So one one product they specify on "Maximum" whilst on another they use "Average" so it is hard to assess performance or even make comparisons of their own products.

I can see why you are seeking actual user experience.

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Allan

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:07

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:07
Geoff, Here is a cut-and-paste from the Waeco site: "Warranty - 2 years on compressor, 1 year everything else".

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Allan

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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:16

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:16
Geoff these are definitely a compressor fridge (supposedly the smallest available) so you would Assume that these would not be drawing 2.5ah continuous.

Allan I appreciate you sympathizing with me here. The waeco specs for this fridge are next to useless as max power gives almost no assistance in determining how much battery I'm going to need to run one of these things.

Really just wanting to now the ah consumption over a 24hr period running as a fridge and running as a freezer.
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Follow Up By: Geoff (Newcastle, NSW) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:34

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 18:34
Fair enough Simon, compressor they are mate!

Million dollar question, which compressor.

Waeco used to use the Danfoss units across their range. If that one has the smaller Danfoss then the 2.5 Amps will be pretty close to right.

To be honest I don't think you'll get a straight answer out of many manufacturers on power consumption. There are just far too many variables and far too much to lose in the budget end of the market to give a straight answer.

I'm still looking for the logged data I have on several different fridges. There are some interesting numbers buried in it.

Current draw on most of the one's I logged is actually very dependent in cabinet temperature. The cooler they are the less current they draw. But and a big but, they run longer canceling out any gains in consumption.

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:05

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 20:05
From the instruction book for the CDF-11 on Waeco's site it can be seen that this product is a Bordbar fridge. Some products marketed by Waeco are of the German Bordbar manufacture and as such do not have Danfoss compressors so no parallels can be drawn re components or performance specifications.

For the CDF-11 Waeco specify "Maximum 30 Watts". They also specify a temperature range as low as -18C. So it could be presumed that the 30 watts is related to running it at -18C, (at whatever ambient). It would not be necessary to maintain -18C in order to operate as a reasonable freezer so if operated at say -10C then the power consumption would be something less than 30 Watts, maybe 20w equating to 1.5A.

If run as a fridge at +4C then the power consumption would be much less than the 30W possibly 12W = 1.0 Amp average. The motor will draw 2.5A whilst running but with a duty cycle of say 40% it will average to 1.0A.

That's about the best I can offer.

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: ross - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:48

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 23:48
Geoff,newcastle. The 1st batch of the 11 litre waecos had danfoss compressors,then they switched over to a chinese made compressor.
I got this info from Waeco who told me at the time I could choose which compressor as they still had both tyrpes in stock.
I think there was a slight drop in price at the time.
This was 4-5years ago now so I guess they would all be the chinese type compressor now.
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Reply By: cookie1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:13

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:13
I have the 25L rated at 6.8AH which was recently on special, my scottish heritage got the better of me as I was going to buy the 11 but the price was too good to pass up.

We went away on a trial run for the Canning with the Waeco CDF50 running as a freezer set to -6oC and the CDF25 set to 4oC ( optimum beer temp), we unplug the "drinks" fridge once we arrived at site (motor / alternator stopped) and left the freezer running 24/7.

It worked well so am not too worried about the extra consumption so long as the main freezer is running.

Not a direct answer but may be another line of thought for you

Cheers

Colin
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Reply By: marc p - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:20

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:20
Over many years I have run my Waeco CF40 litre as a freezer for up to six weeks at a time. Despite the reliabilty issues only in 40 deg + did it cycle continuously. But set at max -20 deg on stinkers at the end of the day it would be at -12 and you would only get 24 hrs out of a 100 amp agm battery. I imagine an 11 litre compressor fridge would be far better than this.
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Reply By: Tim Owen - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:38

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:38
I have one as a centre console in a Defender. No data on power consumption, but I've been happy with the fridge. It's run 24/7 for over 12 months now, no problems.
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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:41

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:41
Hey Tim,

Thanks for your response. Do you run this off a dual battery set up? And I'm assuming you have it running as a fridge not as a freezer?? Do you have a rough idea of how long it will run off the battery and what size battery?
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Follow Up By: Tim Owen - Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:50

Saturday, Apr 14, 2012 at 19:50
I have 170ah AGM battery in addition to starter. Yes, I run it at 2 deg C, but couldn't,t tell you how long to drain a battery of any particular capacity, as I have permanently mounted solar, so always power going in also. Good luck.
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Reply By: Simon H1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 15:18

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 15:18
Well I contacted waeco technical and service and they advised that as a fridge it averages 1-1.2ah over 24hrs and as a freezer it averages 3-3.2ah over 24hrs so it is pretty damn thirsty for such a little fridge, according to those numbers it will use more power then a cf-50!!

Might have to reconsider this as an option as, combined with a fridge, I will be using over 4ah average which might be pushing it my anticipated power supplies.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 16:43

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 16:43
Hi Simon,

Yep, that is about what I came up with. It does seem thirsty for its size. Maybe because it is a Bordbar not Danfoss compressor.

By the way, the expression is 1-1.2A (Amps) not "ah" (Ampere hours).
Averaging 1-1.2 Amps over a 24 hour period would be a consumption from the battery of 24 to 28.8 Ah (Ampere Hours) and 76.8Ah running as a freezer.

"Amps" is the instantaneous current draw whilst Ah, Ampere hours" is the total energy consumed over a stated period, 24 hours in this case.
Even Waeco do not seem to be able to get these terms correct!

In the case of this CDF-11, it draws maybe 3.2 Amps whilst the motor is actually running but if the motor only runs for 37.5% of the time it equates to 1.2A of continuous draw.

By the way, two 20 litre fridges will use more power than one 40 litre fridge (all other things being equal) Not only will one larger compressor be likely more efficient than two smaller ones but certainly because the two smaller fridges will have a larger total cabinet surface area to absorb heat from the ambient. (But this is not an argument for having only one fridge!)

Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 17:43

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 17:43
Hey Allan,

Thanks for the response and correcting my technical term error.

I understand that 2 fridges will always use more then one fridge of the same total size. I was originally leaning towards a combined fridge and freezer but got put off by the relatively small size fridges in these units and I was not prepared to go for something as big as a waeco 80, also I figured there was some reassurance in taking 2 fridges away that if one breaks down I'm not stuck with nothing.

However, the power consumption of 2 separate fridge/freezers has now put me off. I am thinking that a freezer might be completely out of the question for what I was hoping. Planning to run one 110ah agm with 100-120w solar and avoiding driving the car at all for 3-4 days, but if I will be pulling a combined 4ah that just doesn't seem possible without 3-4 days of perfect sunshine (unlikely I think).

Interestingly though, almost all the combo fridge and freezer unit I've seen pull about 2-3ah, except somehow the primus 55lt duo claims to average 0.82! Which is exceptionally low for a combined fridge and freezer! No one on here has been able to confirm that figure for me but the other fridges have been claimed to use about as much power as primus claims they will so there is reason to believe that figure.

I am still giving thought to that fridge however I am really concerned that the little (31lt) fridge compartment will prove insufficient.

FYI it will primarily just be me and my partner camping so don't need heaps of room, but 31lt seems tiny!
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 19:52

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 19:52
Hi Simon, No worries. I wasn't just being pedantic about the technical terms, there is a real difference between Amps and Ampere-hours, significant when making calculations and evaluations.

We (two people) get by with a 35 litre Waeco but it requires some management. When run with the temperature set at 4C halfway up the chamber, the vacuum-packed meat keeps just frozen in the bottom. We rarely camp for more than overnight without driving so no worries re battery.

Interesting specs on the Primus fridges. I looked at the Primus site and once again the power specs are fuzzy. As you say, they quote 0.82ah for the 55 litre Duo. I can only presume that they mean 0.82ah PER 24 HOURS. That would equate to 20ah battery consumption in 24 hours. Even so, it seems very low, and of course does not say at what ambient temperature.

It is possible of course to construct fridges of very low power consumption simply by providing enough cabinet insulation but that would then increase both the cabinet dimensions and the retail price. There are a couple of such brands on the market. But 0.82A I find hard to believe in Australian conditions. Perhaps in winter in the Alps? LOL


Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 20:02

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 20:02
Hi Allan,

Yeah I was at first leaning towards a 40l just fridge, then thought a freezer as well, but now (in light of power issues) I'm thinking a 60l fridge and just pre freeze the meat and put it at the bottom.

With regards the power usage of the duo take a look at the link below, its a review which was endorsed and published on the primus website which has a slightly more detailed power consumption chart with claims that those power consumption figures are based on +3C cabinet temp and +32C ambient temp! Given that the freezer compartment on the duo can't go any warmer then +1C (at which point the fridge would likely be well above +3C) then this figure must be based on having the freezer running at normal freezer temp and fridge at +3C.

I just can't figure out how the Primus is managing to be so much more efficient then Waeco's and Engels AND why the hell aren't they more popular in light of that amazing power consumption and given their low price point?! I know the duo has dual lids which I would think would aid slightly, and it uses a fan to regulate the temp in the fridge similar to the engel duo, but even a freezer alone should be churning through more power then that!
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Follow Up By: Simon H1 - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 20:03

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 20:03
woops forgot the link

http://www.primusaustralia.com.au/Ad0F5OutdoorSpecialskJsDc/Web/FridgeOverlander.pdf
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 22:27

Tuesday, Apr 17, 2012 at 22:27
Well Simon, if it's as good as Primus would have us believe, I won't be buying shares in Engel or Waeco! LOL Hopefully someone who has one will comment on its power consumption.

Our 35 litre Waeco came with the vehicle but if I were replacing it I would be considering 50 or 60 litre to make things a bit easier.

I have previously owned an Engel which performed well (no better than the Waeco) but the oscillating motor had a significant hum, amplified by the plywood floor of the camper. I prefer the Danfoss rotary motor.

Cheers
Allan

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