Inverters

Submitted: Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 13:21
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Hi everyone im after some information regarding repairing a 300watt inverter in Adelaide.Would appreciate anybody who knows where i might get it fixed.
Cheers
Chris
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Reply By: energy marty - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 13:36

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 13:36
You will probably find it will cost you less to get a new inverter - name brands in 300W available for under $200...
AnswerID: 485444

Reply By: Member - Broodie H3 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 14:13

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 14:13
We have Just brought a 600w pure sine wave Inverter on the Internet and had it delivered to our front door from Melbourne in two days. we live in W.A, cost $210.00 Aussie made. but To get one repaired in Adelaide I would find a reputable Electrician, and get their opinion, you may find it cheaper to buy a new one like we did. We had a 300 Powerteck one but it was a modified sine wave and didn't do the job properly, that's why we went to the 600 pure sine wave following advice from an electrician.I hope this is of some use to you
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Follow Up By: P2D2 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:18

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:18
"cost $210.00 Aussie made"
Definitely not Aussie made.
More than likely a dangerous piece of rubbish for a 600W sine wave for $210
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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:28

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:28
Pretty sure, It was recommended by the sparkie that installed it, and the box it came in said made in Australia, courtesy g store. I'll let you know how it goes once we're on the road.
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Follow Up By: Member - Broodie H3 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:30

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:30
The wife just corrected my price it was $310.00
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Follow Up By: P2D2 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:35

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 15:35
Still not Aussie made for $310
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Follow Up By: passionfruit - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 16:13

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 16:13
Do we still manufacture goods in Australia any more?
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Follow Up By: dbish - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 17:57

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 17:57
I destroyed a Jaycar 300W inverter by using a 100mm angle grinder. Found 4 destroyed switching Mosfets, the cost of just the parts was 3/4 the price of a new one. probably not worth repairing.
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Follow Up By: energy marty - Friday, May 11, 2012 at 15:51

Friday, May 11, 2012 at 15:51
500W australian made inverter (Latronics, designed and manufactured in Caloundra, QLD) - $780.00

350W Victron inverter - designed in Holland, probably put togethet in China or somewhere similar - $186.00

800W Victron inverter (see notes above) - $489
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Reply By: The Bantam - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 18:04

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 18:04
Most electricians would not have the faintest idea how to repair an inverter.

In fact these days you will be hard pressed to find a technician capable of fixing such a thing, they have all gone out of business, because nobody fixes anything any more.

If it was my inverter I might take the top off it and have a look...I am a qualified technician and a licenced electrical worker....but if it was anybody else's......I simply would not bother.

If I was to repair it and it was more than the most basic of faults, ya looking down the spout of $160 by the time I pull it appart and put it back together.
Then there are the parts.

NAH...unless it is something pretty special, forget it, go buy a new one

If anybody is pushing the line that all inverters not made here are dodgy.......save ya breath......there are plenty of perfectly servicable properly isolated, australian standards compliant inverters on the market...most of them will be made in asia or china.....even if it has been made somewhere else its quite likley the printed curcuit boards either the bare board or the completed circuit board has been made and assembled in china or asia............serioulsy folks, it aint rocket science.

cheers
AnswerID: 485464

Follow Up By: P2D2 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 18:37

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 18:37
"australian standards compliant inverters on the market"
There are no Australian Standards for portable inverters. If there was you wouldn't see so much rubbish for sale.

Nobody said "that all inverters not made here are dodgy......." Like 98% of the small inverters sold would be foreign made and some excellent quality units.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 18:41

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 18:41
G'day Bantam

Good advice there. I agree that most electricians wouldn't know the first thing about and inverter and have probably never seen inside one.
It is the technician trained person who has this ability.

Ross M
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Follow Up By: apwaddo - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 19:40

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 19:40
A bit frightening that a ' a qualified technician and a licenced electrical worker' does not even know there are no ' Australian Standards for portable inverters'

A bit scary if either statement is true!
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:11

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:11
No Australian standard covering inverters...that is absolute rubbish.

There may be no specific standard that apply to inverters.

But there are plenty of standards that apply to ALL 240V electrical items.

To start with AS3100 Approval and Specification-General requirements for electrical equipment.
While not specificaly written for inverters it will have application in much of the machines design.

From the preface
"This standard contains general requirements for electrical equipment and can be applied to equipment for which no particular Approval and test specification exists. It also forms the basis of general requirements where an Approval and test specification exists for a piece of equipment. Only safety matters and related conditions are covererd."

AS3760, "In-service safety inspection and testing of electrical equipment" could be applied to an inverter that "is already in service, has been serviced or repaired, is returning to service from a second hand sale or is available for hire"

AND the same or similar procedures set out in AS3760 should have been conducted prior to leaving the factory.

AS3000 known as "The Australian wiring rules" specificaly mentions inverters and how they should be connected and earthed.

While it does not specificaly mention inverters AS61558, "Safety of power transformers, power supplies, reactors and similar products"
Could easily be considered to apply.
The scope specificaly mentions "switchmode supplies" which is exacty what an inverter is.

The fact that extra low voltage DC is on the input and 240V AC is on the output rather than the other way arround changes nothing.

The 3 pin outlet socket used in the unit will be a prescribed article and will be covered by a standard

If there is a circuit breaker or a residual current device on the 240V side of the inverter this may also be a prescribed article and be covererd by a standard.

Then you get into the endless minutia of the standards that apply to all the components...even the "standard test finger" used to see that the vents or grills are not too big will be covered by a standard

Even if the standards dont specificaly state that the inverter is covererd by a standard, state and federal legeslation will.

The QLD legeslation is especillay agressive and uses words like "binds all" "free from electrical risk", "duty of care" and realy hammers home the "chain of responsibilty"....that is one piece of legeslation you don't want to be on the wrong end of......it allows them to kick you turn you arround and kick you again.

In court, even if you could argue that none of the standards directly applied (not likley), the the concepts of "duty of care" and " freedom from electrical risk" would mean that the general expectations of safety and suitability in AS3100 would be used to prosecute the whole "chain of responsibility" from the owner and operator of an inverter right back to the importer.

OH and then you move on to the " electromagnetic compatability framework" which specificaly mentions the like of inverters, dimmers and switchmode power supplies and puts them is a catagory of their own.

So don't tray and piss in my pocket and tell me its raining.

cheers
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:15

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:15
BTW, neither legeslation or australian standards can specify or guarantee product quality except in a very few particular cases.

cheers
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Follow Up By: apwaddo - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:31

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:31
Hey Bantam - calm down - I did say ,'A bit scary if either statement is true!, meaning both statements.

However your epistle seems to be so full of these type of statements:

'could be applied to an inverter ' ,
'may be no specific standard that apply to inverters' .
'Even if the standards dont specificaly state that the inverter is covererd by a standard'
'While it does not specificaly mention inverters AS61558'

that the accusation you levelled of 'trying to piss in your pocket' would indicate to me that P2D2 has either got it right or he has deeper pockets than you!

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Follow Up By: P2D2 - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:38

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 21:38
Bantam you can waffle on as much as you like, but there are NO specific Australian Standards for portable inverters. That is the reason so many low quality non electrically isolated inverters are been sold. eBay advertising and others that state along the lines 'approved to Australian Standards' are rubbish.

There is presently an Australian Standard in preparation for portable inverters but has yet to see the light of day.

Interpretation of others Australian Standards to portable inverters have zero relevance under current standards which you should be well aware off.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 23:16

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 23:16
No waffle at all.

The use of the word "Approved" in realtion to any electrical item other than a "prescribed article" or something specificaly reguated by an electrical supply authority is erronious and pointless........ people using the wrong wording is hardly a new thing.

But that is not the way everybody expresses the fact even if they express the fact.

There is no specific electrical standard for a toaster, or a power drill, or a television or a vacume cleaner or the majority of electrical products, in fact there are very few items that there are specific standards for.
Even among the list of "prescribed articles" that require formal approval the majority do not have a specific standard.

But almost every one of these devices is covered by a number of compulsory standards, AS3100 being the main one....AS3100 is pretty well universal in its application

The old chestnut about non isolated inverters, just keeps popping its head up.

ANYBODY who makes, imports or sells a nonisolated inverter in this day and age is a fool.

The fact is, that it is no more difficult to manufacture an inverter that has the same level of isolation as we expect from every other 240V to DC device legally on the australian market

I chalenge you to name any non isolated inverters that have recently be sold by a reputable business..or recently been sold period.
I am sure the variuos state electrical and consumer authorities would be very interested in knowing.

There has always been and will always be a problem with people trying to import dangerous and noncompliant electrical goods into this country.
That does not mean the laws or standards are inadequate

To give people the impression that every inverter they buy over the internet or is not australian made is dodgy and dangerous, is nothing more than scaremongering.


There is no necessity for a new standard for inverters, the existing standards are completly adequate except may be the the "scope" and "definitions" in the existing standards need to be a bit more specific in encompasing inverters.

After all the small inverters we see used in camping, caravanning and 4wding are pretty simple devices and the electrical compliance issues likewise are quite straight forward and no different to any other appliance requiring electrical isolation.

The only possible justification for a new standard on inverters I can see is to specify how things like grid connect inverters and inverters for large scale domestic & industrail supply are made, work and are installed......believe me there are some scarry issues there.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Ron S (SA) - Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 23:22

Thursday, May 10, 2012 at 23:22
I was following this thread with interest until I got lost in the bickering.
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Follow Up By: rocco2010 - Friday, May 11, 2012 at 00:44

Friday, May 11, 2012 at 00:44
nothing like a question about electricity to get the sparks flying ...
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Follow Up By: P2D2 - Friday, May 11, 2012 at 12:57

Friday, May 11, 2012 at 12:57
The problem is you get people that reply with little knowledge that try and push an incorrect barrow and like to insist their little knowledge is correct. They don't like to give up and concede they are wrong.

The little bantam (small brain) needs to get out and visit large national auto parts chains and see the non electrically isolated inverters available for sale. There are no laws currently that prevents the sale of non electrically isolated inverters.

Reason the Australian Standards organisation has a draft standard for portable inverters is because currently they are not covered by Australian Standards.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Friday, May 11, 2012 at 17:11

Friday, May 11, 2012 at 17:11
OK how about AS4763:2011 "Safety of portable inverters"

Now a fully fledged standad and had been an interum standard since arround 2006

From the preface
The objective of this Standard is to provide manufacturers, designers, regulatory authorities,
testing laboratories and similar organizations with safety requirements designed to give the
user protection against hazards that might occur during normal operation and abnormal
operation of an inverter and which may be used as the basis for approval for sale in Australia
and New Zealand.

Seems that like myself many people belived that AS3100 should have been sufficient to do the job........and indeed I still believe it should have been, if inverters complied with AS3100 there should have been no problem....BUT ......it was the subject of high level technical and legal discussion......the result was it was ruled that AS3100 was not sufficient.

SO the interum AS4763 was drafted and released without the usual consultation period. way back in 2006.

In my view the next step is to add portable inverters to the list of "prescribed items" and require them to be "approved" before sale.

There may still be no legal impediment to selling non compliant inverters...but there most definitely IS a standard.


NOW these inverters currently sold in the "large national parts chains" have you tested one to see if it is or isn't isolated or are you just bassing the judgement on the lack of a claim that they are isolated.

So who has little knoweledge and is pushing an incorrect barrow now.

cheers
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