Cryovac Question

Submitted: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 at 23:49
ThreadID: 95917 Views:6409 Replies:11 FollowUps:26
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Evening All

Curious to know if anyone has information on how long cooked food can be kept when it has been cryovaced?

Scenario: Cook meal, Freeze and Cryovac. Then put in fridge (which is at normal under 4 degrees C, not being run as a freezer). The meal will defrost in the bag. The question is: how long can it then be kept?

We have had no trouble with fresh food, e.g. meat, which is cryovaced fresh and never frozen - it lasts quite a while if temperature is kept under 4 degrees.

Thoughts?

Cheers

Peter
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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 00:35

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 00:35
interesting post ..... we have, in the last few weeks, been to a big "food" trade fair in a capital city and it was "BIG" with most of the major suppliers and manufacturers there, one stand we were very interested in touching base with was a major Australian company producing chicken products .....
They are about to release a cooked whole chicken that is cryovaced and is date coded to last TWO WEEKS in a chilled state, NOT FROZEN ...... yes 2 weeks in the fridge and it is chicken and a very big company so they have done MAJOR testing on it and it has passed all tests ........ they say it is all in the "cryovacing" ......... i would guess only a day if opened ..... but still 2 weeks un-opened is good ..
Food for thought..
Cheers
JM&Kds
AnswerID: 487225

Reply By: Member - Bucky - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 04:08

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 04:08
Peter
In short........... Months if frozen
We did that, and eat out of our 40 lt Engel for 3 months plus, once we got home, we were still picking thru the last of it, and enjoying what was left for the next 6-8 weeks

SWMBO did 78 meals. Mainly in meal lots, cryovaced roasts, bolognaise bases, silversides, snags. A few weekends cooking up about 6 - 8 weeks before we set out.

Sealed, flattened, and frozen.
As the Engel was packed, meals were mixed up in layers, so we did not eat rummage thru all the time.

That mighty little Fridge kept everything frozen for the next 3 months.

As often as we could, we woulf backfill with plastic drink bottles of water, keeping the fridge as full as possible, thus keeping the bulk colder, longer.

Peas were freeze dried type Suprise Brand, and potatoe was Deb instant Mashed.
Small cans of corn pieces finished off everything.

Of course nothing beats fresh Vegies, so we would get them as often as we could.

Cheers
Bucky


AnswerID: 487228

Follow Up By: Fab72 - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 05:23

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 05:23
G'Day Bucky,
Just curious as to how remote your three months travel was?

I'm curious on the basis that if you were travelling in remote areas like the CSR or worse and your vehicle and fridge suffered a major breakdown (eg: electrics fried) did you still carry enough back up stock to be able to get by until a rescue occurred?

I'm just trying to gauge what a good ratio of chilled/frozen food there is compared to say tinned, dehydrated, or fresh food people carry.

Personally, I try to carry as little chilled/frozen food as possible so in a worse case scenario, I don't go hungry. Eg: Pasta N Sauce packs (using long life milk), noodles, those Sunrice meals (they say microwave but a saucepan works just as well), and tinned food (eg: Harvest steak and veg, fully loaded cans, spags/ravioli and sauce etc). For my meat fix, I'll slice up and cook a can of spam, sliced salami or salted meats.

The steaks, chops and snags get used up in the first few days along with the fresh veg.

Cheers :)
Fab.



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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 08:30

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 08:30
very good philosophy - always have enough food to "survive" a fridge disaster
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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Tuesday, Jun 05, 2012 at 03:59

Tuesday, Jun 05, 2012 at 03:59
Fab

Sorry I did not get back to you earlier, been up in the High Country, chasing Bambi, and boy is it cold up there. Snowed out in the end


We did do the CSR, to Well 33

Turned out there did the Pilbra, and onto the Kimberley.

Did The Bungles, and then headed back down the CSR to Well 33 and back to Alice, via the Gary Highway.

40 lt Engel worked flawlessly, as did out "travelling companions" Waeco.

Everything good.
Did a sausage top to at Kununurra, and the Butcher there was only too helpfull in Cryovaccing them for us.

Cheers
Bucky


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Follow Up By: Member - Bucky - Tuesday, Jun 05, 2012 at 04:42

Tuesday, Jun 05, 2012 at 04:42
Fab

No 1 priority when in remote areas is a Satphone, and or an EPIRB

We borrowed a Satphone.

Before we left

New FanBelts and Hoses, and kept the old one as spares. That way I knwe they fitted, and were in Perfect consition.

I service my own vehicle, so I went over basically every nut and bolt I couls, then took the Patrol into a local, and trusted 4X4 place, and got them to do a pre-trip inspection, just in case I missed anything.

Spare nuts and bolts, all common vehicle sizes.
Spanners and tools of every kind, just in case. New Oil, and a full Grease gun.
Spare Bearing kits, and know how to install them.
2 new spare tyres, and 2 newtubes, with enuf plugs ect, and a tyre plyer kit. and I can change and repair my own tyres, easily. That I feel is a must.
We had just 1 puncture, and that was at Windjand Gorge.
The Camper Trailer, which had a slow leak fixed, before we left, went flayt at El Questro, so I cleaned up the inside of the tyre, and inserted a tube, and that tube is still in the trye.

Self tapping screws, a good mixture, for putting back in headlights, and tail lights.

Radiator repair goop, and fuel tank repair goop ..
Quik Steel is the go there, and also 5 minute Araldite.

I can personally guarantee both, as we did a long range Fuel Tank at Well 33, (the weld across the botton seam let go) but with that stuss, and a little smart thinking we easily made back to Alice, and civilization.

But that Satphone came in handy when I thought I would not make it back to Alice, and rang the RACV, and the Tank Manufacturer, for help.

Some of our conquests, and stuff ups

We carried approx 140 lts of water, and 340 lts of fuel

All up weight was 4.7 tonne

Cheers
Bucky

contact me if you want more info............ bloh@iinet.net.au






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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2012 at 19:43

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2012 at 19:43
Cheers Bucky,
I have most of what you mentioned already as spares but I have added a few things based on your reply. Cheers for that.

My trips thus far have not been as remote as yours based on my fuel range/luggage space. At best on a good easy run, my range is limited to around 450kms, and although I'd love a long range or sub tank, no-one seems to make them for my make/model. Throwing 2 jerrys in is my only alternative but luggage space is pretty limited to with 3 kids and a wife.

I guess that's half the reason I preference more basic foods and try and steer clear of things that require refrigeration. Would be nice to one day get a bigger Fourbie.

Thanks again...BTW...email address saved for future reference.

Fab.
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Reply By: GrumpyOldFart - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 07:57

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 07:57
Check in your supermarket I think it's Sunrice brand. They do several shelf stable chicken curry & rice variations. The curry and rice are in separate foil pouches and just require heating in the container in the box. 12 months best before shelf life - not chilled! Great emergency meals and small size but filling.

Dru

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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 16:53

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 16:53
Dru,
Spot on mate. They're the ones I was on about in my above post. They're designed for the microwave but taste just as good (and they do taste pretty good) when heated in a saucepan. Butter chicken is my personal favourite.

Fab.
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Reply By: GT Campers - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 08:37

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 08:37
I too have a cryo machine, but have - until now - ony used it for meats (and pineapple slices!) so am intersted...
What is the food you are planning to store?
And...would cook-cryo-freeze be a better method?
AnswerID: 487241

Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 17:20

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 17:20
GT,
they are also very good for sealing parts. I have cryovaced injectors, oil and fuel filters, grease cartridges and parts to keep water and dust out. The principal is great for storing parts and items you don't wish to become contaminated.

We also pre cook up to 3 weeks of meals. We place them in 1 meal plastic containers and once they are frozen remove them from the containers and vac them.

I must admit we have the luxury of 1 fridge or freezer and 1 fridge/ freezer although both are small. 40l trailblaza and 80 or 90 litre engel upright.
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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 21:30

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 21:30
yeah, that could be useful! Just don't get your injectors mixed up with your snags, eh!
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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 21:32

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 21:32
yeah, that could be useful! Just don't get your injectors mixed up with your snags, eh!
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Reply By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 08:53

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 08:53
I usually do a few precooked casseroles before a long trip and they have lasted quite a long time. I move stuff out of the freezer into the fridge as we go and when the freezer is finally empty it gets turned off.

As long as the cooked food is frozen as soon as cooked then little chance of bacteria and if cryovac'd well and double sealed then I've had zero problems.

I always double seal just in case the first seal fails.
Dunc
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AnswerID: 487247

Reply By: Member - Robert R1 (SA) - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 09:36

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 09:36
Peter,

I have heard somewhere that if you cryovac cooked food and just keep it in the fridge it can build up dangerous levels of the bugs that make you crook but because it is sealed, the bacteria that makes food smelly and lets you know it is off doesn't grow, so it looks ok, smells ok but can make you very sick. I think it is only safe for a few days. Frozen is ok.

I put cooked food into Lock n Lock containers and put it in my fridge or in ice in the esky and treat it the same as I treat food at home in my fridge.

Regards,
Bob
AnswerID: 487251

Reply By: CSeaJay - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:33

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 10:33
Peter

Whatever you decide on based on above posts (cooked v uncooked etc) aside, p[personally we stay away from fish, chicken, and meat-on-the-bone.
We find red meat lasts best.
Personally I get the meat made up in meal-sized portions, get the butcher to cryovac with their super duper machine (much much better than the useless cheapies) and then place in my car fridge. It lasts up to 6 weeks in a "crusty" state (not frozen solid but icy)

Good luck with your travels, don't get food poisoned

CJ
AnswerID: 487256

Reply By: get outmore - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:23

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:23
Cryovaccing. Cooked food is just begging for food poisoning and not the normal crook guts variety
anaerobic bacteria can be some of the worst including botulism
AnswerID: 487262

Reply By: Member - Chris & Debbie (QLD) - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:38

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:38
Peter

We normally Cryovac all different types of meats and cooked foods such as caseroles in meal size portions. These are kept in the fridge around the 4degC mark and do not run the fridge as a freezer due to the amount of power that takes.
We normally do not take seafood but normally chicken/pork will get used within 2 weeks; red meat, bacon, caserols etc 4-5 weeks without a problem.
The croyovaced foods get packed at the bottom of the fridge layered roughly in the order they will be eaten with a single layer of high density foam camping mattress which helps keep a constant temperature.

Chris
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Reply By: Ron N - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:53

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 12:53
SelmerVI - Virtually all cooked food will keep O.K. for two to three weeks if vacuum sealed. Exposure to air is the major reason why food spoils rapidly.

The major sources of food poisoning are:

1. From contact with contaminated hands (not washing hands after going to toilet - e. coli).

2. Contamination from rodent droppings or rodents contact with food (salmonella, hantavirus and several other nasties).

3. Meats, particularly chicken, that contain campylobactor. Campylobactor lives in chickens intestinal systems at 42 deg C and can survive refrigeration. Campylobactor needs oxygen and room temperatures to multiply. Campylobactor gives you gastroenteritus and is one of the more common food-poisoning origins.

4. Unwashed fresh fruit and vegetables that can be contaminated with a range of bacteria and viruses.

5. Botulism. Clostridium botulinum is one of the most deadly organisms known to man. It's in soil and in some aquatic environments. Its spores need some time (a few hours) at room temperature to develop. Botulism is associated with low-temperature, minimal processing of food and poor food storage (leaving food lying around at room temperature for 2-3 hours or more)

All of the above bugs are killed by temperatures above 74 deg C (165 deg F) held for 5 mins or more at that temperature.

You won't have any problems if you cook food properly, and store and handle opened food properly.
That means:

1. Cooking food to high temperatures for at least 5 minutes.

2. Eating opened food within an hour or two, and not leaving it at room temperature for extended periods.

3. Washing hands before handling food, and washing fresh fruit and vegetables before you eat them.

Cryovaced food that has been cooked to high temperature, then stored at fridge temperatures for a period of a week or ten days, should pose no problems at all.

The problems stem from opened food that is exposed to contact with air (oxygen for bugs to thrive on), warmth (bugs need body-temperature warmth to breed), and contamination from dirty hands, rodents, soil, and intestinal tracts.

I like to cut open whole chooks to ensure they've been cleaned properly. You'd be staggered to find how badly cleaned a lot of chooks are.
We even bought a (fresh) chook from Woolies last year, that hadn't been cleaned!
It was only because I cut the chook in half before cooking, that I found it still contained all its guts.

Processed meats such as salamis, etc, that are processed at inadequate temperatures are notorious for carrying bugs.

Meat such as red meat, bacon, ham, etc., will go "off" after storing for a few days in the fridge uncovered. The usual "off" smell is caused by the fat going rancid. Despite the unpleasant and smell that seemingly is a warning, rancid fat on meat won't kill you.

It will give an unpleasant taste to the food, but you can use this meat if you cut off the rancid fat and wash the meat.
Most people prefer to discard meat that smells "off" - and this is wise, as you can get diaorrhea from fresh meat that's cooked when it starts to smell "off".

The major sources of illness with food are related to poor storage after cooking or opening. Most cases of food poisoning are handled by the immune system with no major drama. You might get some diaorrhea, feel a "bit crook", but you recover within 24 hrs.

Chicken and seafood are the most notorious sources of food poisoning, and these products require particular care in handling, before and after, being cooked.

I've had gastroenteritis, the source of which was black rats roaming a (military) bush kitchen in a 3rd world country. It's not fun, I tell you.
I spent 4 days in hospital, and 3 of those 4 days are lost to me, I was so crook.

This following link gives good food handling advice.

http://culinaryarts.about.com/od/safetysanitation/a/bacteria.htm

Cheers - Ron.
AnswerID: 487267

Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 14:43

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 14:43
There is way to much mis information in this post to address it all
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 15:38

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 15:38
Address it or shut up. I just love people who adopt a superior-knowledge attitude, and who dismiss in one sentence, a substantial post, that is based on research, training, and accumulated knowledge and experience, over 50 or more years.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 16:27

Thursday, May 31, 2012 at 16:27
get outmore
Any fool can criticize without going into specifics- so how about sharing your vast store of knowledge with us?
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 01:13

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 01:13
thanks for the personal atacks I was on my phone so couldnt go into details but had to warn people about the inacuracies about most of the statements

Ill adress some
"Processed meats such as salamis, etc, that are processed at inadequate temperatures are notorious for carrying bugs."

totally incorrect. processesd correctly are not heat treated IN ANY WAY it is the acidity which inhibits poisoning growth, After the deaths from garaboldi salami in the mid 90s many places elected to additionally pasturize thier fermented products
if they are processed correctly NO heat treatment is neccassary
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"The problems stem from opened food that is exposed to contact with air (oxygen for bugs to thrive on),"

totally incorrect, many food poisoning bacteria thrive in low/no oxygen bacteria
including clostridium bacteria such as botulinim and perfringens
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"Meat such as red meat, bacon, ham, etc., will go "off" after storing for a few days in the fridge uncovered. The usual "off" smell is caused by the fat going rancid. Despite the unpleasant and smell that seemingly is a warning, rancid fat on meat won't kill you."

Mostly incorrect the off smell and slimy feel is caused by pseudomonis bacteria .

this is the indicator usually used to determine if something is OFF and is an aerobic bacteria so wont be present in vaccume packed foods
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"All of the above bugs are killed by temperatures above 74 deg C (165 deg F) held for 5 mins or more at that temperature."

so totally wrong its what prompted me to give the cryptic warning - just dangerous bad wrong information

many bacteria form spores which arnt troubled inthe slightest by those low temperatures

specifically botulism which actually needs a 12 D reduction which is a complicated formula based around temperatures of 121 deg c

the temperatures and times mentioned in the post are just dangerous misinformation

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"Meats, particularly chicken, that contain campylobactor. Campylobactor lives in chickens intestinal systems at 42 deg C and can survive refrigeration. Campylobactor needs oxygen and room temperatures to multiply. Campylobactor gives you gastroenteritus and is one of the more common food-poisoning origins."

how much oxygen do you think is in a chooks intestine??

most compylopater grow in very low to no oxygen enviroments

the room/body temp thing is however one of the few correct parts of the post

hopfully that for starters have backed up my initial cryptic comment

look any of it up if you want but i didnt train in food tech for nothing








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Follow Up By: Bigfish - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 06:51

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 06:51
So there you go.
I only take frozen uncooked meats/food. Have taken the occaisional cooked silverside{ frozen after cooking}. With the huge range of tinned, dried and pre-prepared meals in aluminium satchels, there really is absolutely no need to to take a chance with a dodgy meal. I have always believed that if it is in a cryvac bag it is frozen or eaten within 3 days.
Thats how I look after my gut. How you treat yours is your business BUT there are some interesting points raised on this topic here . Thanks
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Follow Up By: CSeaJay - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 09:12

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 09:12
Get out more

Your replies may be factually correct but is misleading.

FOR EXAMPLE the statement was made that uncovered food gives O2 for bugs to thrive on.
You replied incorrect, many bugs live in low O2 circumstances

But are you missing the point? Covering food DOES make a huge difference in how long food lasts. One does not have to be a Chemist to figure that out.

And the smell; if it looks off, smells off, and feels off, it probably is off and will make you sick!

And it is an everyday fact that chicken is more of a risk than other foods.

Not attacking either the post or the reply, just pointing out to you that it implies other matters

Cheers

CJ
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 10:41

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 10:41
regarding if it looks feels and smells off it probablly is off is right

but to elaborate as i said all of those things are usually caused by pseadamonis, A relativly harmless bacteria in itself but as you point out indicates the food is "off" and may well host other more nasties.

this with pseadamonis though is its an aerobic bacteria so wont grow in cryovacced foods so may not appear "of" as you would recognise but can still host nasties
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 11:29

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 11:29
get outmore - thanks for taking time to provide the information.
It just gets on my goat a bit when people, on sites like this, dispute something without giving details or a reasoned argument.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 11:57

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 11:57
You may have trained in food tech, but I wonder if your pass rate for the course was on a par with your pass rate for your English, spelling and punctuation?
You fail to recognise that others who offer information, might have food handling training as well.

1. "totally incorrect. processesd correctly are not heat treated IN ANY WAY"

Wrong. Only a % of processed meats use acidity (fermenting) for meat treatment. Many processed meats products are COOKED or SMOKED, using OVENS.

http://www.nassaufoods.com/index.php?content=salamipreparation

2. "many food poisoning bacteria thrive in low/no oxygen bacteria"

Yes, and food poisoning bacteria are divided into two widely divergent groups - aerobic and anaerobic groups - meaning that there are bacteria that thrive on oxygen (e. coli & salmonella) and bacteria that find oxygen toxic (clostridium).

http://archive.food.gov.uk/hea/teachers/plainenglish/part2.html

3. "All of the above bugs are killed by temperatures above 74 deg C (165 deg F) held for 5 mins or more at that temperature."

"so totally wrong its what prompted me to give the cryptic warning - just dangerous bad wrong information"

Well, according to your outlook, we should all be dead, because nothing we eat is autoclaved, nor are dishes boiled when being washed.
Most dishwashers run at 55 to 65 deg C (mine has a choice of these two wash temperatures) - thus, according to you, we are all going to die of botulism, because a dishwasher doesn't reach 121 deg C, and doesn't use a complicated formula to reach that temperature.
The WHO, plus many Australian and American health sites, regularly advise that food is safe to eat once it has reached 75 to 85 deg C, and this temperature is held for more than 5 mins, and that the temperature reaches all the food content (food needs to be stirred).

121 deg C may be the temperature where every single last spore of Clostridium is killed - but botulism has been responsible for an average of 55 cases of food poisoning in the U.S. annually in the last 5 yrs - whereas Salmonella is responsible for over 1,000,000 cases of food poisoning annually in the U.S. (out of a total population of 300M)

Thus, the risk of food poisoning is far greater from e.coli and salmonella, than from botulism. The fear with botulism is that even though the infection rate is extremely low, the fatality rate from contracting botulism poisoning is around 17%, whereas with Salmonella, it's .05%.

The aim of food heating is to kill the majority of the pathogens without destroying the food quality. Thus, heating foods thoroughly to 75 - 85 deg C is regarded as being adequate to reduce the levels of pathogens to the point where most are killed - and any surviving pathogens are comfortably handled by the immune system.

Our bodies handle large numbers of pathogens daily without us becoming sick. If you knew the amount of pathogens on money (coins & notes), public telephones, doorhandles, car steering wheels, etc, etc - you'd never touch any of them!
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 14:17

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 14:17
OK

1) you mentioned salami as a processed food so i took it you were referring to fermented products

2) you mentioned bugs need oxygen to thrive so I cleared up the fact thats not necc so - all youve done is repeat what i said afterwards there was no mention of anaerobic bacteria in the original post

3) Yes heating is seen as a way of keeping food safe.............. for FRESHLY cooked and tradinionally stored food
the topic was on cryovaccing cooked food
besides botulism there are quite a few spore forming anaerobic bacteria

I suggest you look at the science that gos into canning foods

its no different to cryovaccing cooked food as its storing cooked food in the absence of o2

thats why i strongly recomend against the cryovaccing of cooked ready to eat food

yes it could be done safely with proper handling during preperation, proper storage and recooking

BUT it doesnt leave any margin for error in any of those 3 steps


supermarkets dont sell much in the way of low acid/salt etc cryovacced ready to eat foods

and you can be darn sure anything you do find has had additional treatment such as heating after cryovaccing etc
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 19:41

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 19:41
"3) Yes heating is seen as a way of keeping food safe.............. for FRESHLY cooked and tradinionally stored food
the topic was on cryovaccing cooked food"

Well, the reason I spoke about heating food, is that my standard practice is to reheat any cooked food that has been cryovacced,
This is easy enough to do - you simply drop the bag into boiling water for 10 or 12 minutes.
There goes any pathogens that might have created food poisoning problems.
I can't think of too many ready-cooked meals that you'd want to eat cold out of a cryovacced bag?
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 20:05

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 20:05
Ron – food technology is not my field of expertise but the little I know about botulism is that once its infected the food, boiling won't help you - it may kill the organism, but it won’t sanitise or destroy the poison it’s produced.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 20:59

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 20:59
Dennis - Botulism is largely related to canned or bottled food that has been improperly treated during canning or bottling, or which has developed leaks in the containers.

The pathogen Clostridium Botulinum multiplies rapidly when conditions are right (low acid, held in the "food danger" temperature range of 5 deg C to 60 deg C, and left for hours or days).
Once the CB spores start reproducing rapidly, they produce a clear liquid which is the deadly neurotoxin that can make you very ill and possibly kill you.
The signs are generally well-known - bulging or leaking cans or bottles, foamy or clear liquid in the can or bottle, and an "off" smell. However, occasionally, and relatively rarely, none of these signs are present.

I find many ready-to eat packaged meals in nearly all of my local food stores. Some are made locally, some are shipped in from the East Coast, some are shipped in from overseas.
All have been (or should have been) manufactured to meet the Food Standards Australia rules and regulations.

The Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code is in the link below. Section 3.2.2 refers to the rules and regulations governing the handling and packaging and treatment of food.
Nowhere can I find anything that says cryovacced ready-to-eat meals cannot be produced, because Botulism is too high a risk.

What these rules do spell out - to me anyway - is nothing more than what we all understand as basic safe food handling practices. Keep cold foods cold, keep hot foods hot, don't leave food lying around at room temperature, don't allow food to become contaminated by dirty handlers, don't allow contamination by contact with bacterial or pathlogical sources.

The number of food places I currently see in operation (lunch bars, restaurants, cafes, etc) where people do not even practise half these rules, makes me a whole lot more frightened than cryovaccing my own cooked food.

Employees in many food places often don't wear disposable gloves - they handle money and food consistently in tandem, with bare hands - they leave food lying about - and they're generally not meeting basic council health standards or food handling regulations.

As a result, I feel a lot safer cryovaccing and re-heating and eating my own food, than I do using many of these public food places!

Australia New Zealand Food Standards Code

Cheers - Ron.
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Follow Up By: Ron N - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 21:00

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 21:00
Sorry - Forgot to include the website link -

http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/foodstandards/foodstandardscode.cfm
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 22:50

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 22:50
This is getting too technical for me - good night all
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Follow Up By: Fab72 - Wednesday, Jun 06, 2012 at 19:50

Wednesday, Jun 06, 2012 at 19:50
Anyone for 2 minute noodles?
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Reply By: get outmore - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 22:01

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 22:01
I hope this discussion has highlighted there is potentially issues with cryovacced ready to eat food which is different to traditional storage methods and people will at least pay particular attention to hygienic preparation. Storage temps and reheating thoroughly (I believe cb toxin is denatured by heat although the spores are not killed)

Ill sickness off by stressing any crovacced food fresh or cooked has to be kept at low temps (the closer to zero the better)
Working in a butcher shop we had to educate people that thought cryovac meant it didn't need refridgeration
AnswerID: 487413

Follow Up By: get outmore - Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 22:03

Friday, Jun 01, 2012 at 22:03
That should be sign off -darn phones
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FollowupID: 762649

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