Tare Weight

Submitted: Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 20:38
ThreadID: 96378 Views:3498 Replies:4 FollowUps:10
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What does this mean?
When we went for the rego check today they weighed the van at 2.6t. The tare weight on the compliance plate reads 2.7t, and the van is pretty much empty at the moment.
How do we find out what our limit is? Our tow vehicle is a 4.2ltr turbo diesel Cruiser.
How do we find out if we are overweight?

Cheers
Clint
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Reply By: Member - Wamuranman - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 20:46

Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 20:46
If you mean the van limit ..... it is the ATM on the compliance plate on the van.
(the difference between the Tare and ATM is what weight you can carry in the van).
AnswerID: 488953

Follow Up By: Clint & Chell - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 20:59

Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 20:59
ok thanks Wamuranman.
Curiosity got the better of me and I just went out to check.
The Tare weight is 2.2t - GTM (what does this mean) is 2.5T - and ATM is 2.7T.

I dont understand how we could be so close to the limit. We have very little in the van at the moment.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 21:05

Tuesday, Jun 19, 2012 at 21:05
Gross Trailer Mass (GTM)
The mass transmitted to the ground by the axle or axles of the trailer when coupled to a drawing vehicle and carrying its' maximum load approximately uniformly distributed over the load bearing area.

You are always at the limit of your Tare weight - it is the unladen weight of the van. It never changes.

In your case you can load 500kg in the van (max) which includes water in the tanks, and everything else you put in the van.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 06:43

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 06:43
W that is correct but as he said the van weighs 2.6t at the moment, practically empty and that gives him only 100kgs before he is overweight and illegal.
Clint it looks like you have been caught by the manufacturer like many others, they build a base van of a particular model and have it weighed for type approval.
This weight is then used to register the van and any accesories fitted either originally or aftermarket then become part of the load when in fact they should be considered as part of the build or tare weight.
If it is abrand new van i'd be going back the the manufacturer and asking for uprated weights, which might be able to be done, depends on the strength and carrying capacity of the original chassis.
If it is a second hand van be registered by you then you are stuck with what you've got unfortunately.
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 07:09

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 07:09
Yes you are correct Peter...I was reading the original post and got a bit confused.
It is crazy to have only 100kg free loading capacity....maybe when the van was weighed it had full water tank(s).?
But every new van should be weighed individually as they all come with different options fitted. As it comes it out of the factory (excl water) should be the tare weight in my view.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Racey - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:43

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 11:43
While travelling last year I was talking to A van owner who had this very problem. After a lot of pushing and shoving and finally getting NSW rego dept involved, the company issued a new rating plate. However, the owner was one step ahead; Ok the Tare has been increased to X kg and GTM to Y kg, how come my suspension is only rated to V kg. More pushing and shoving and again finally got Rego Dept involved; the company were forced to increase the suspension at no extra cost.

Clearly if anyone things they been duded by these rating tactics, push the issue with the dealer, manufacturer and anyone else you can think of.

Cheers
Racey
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:16

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 12:16
Here are copy and pastes from ADR-01. If you read them carefully they are easy to understand.

AGGREGATE TRAILER MASS (ATM) - the total mass of the laden trailer when
carrying the maximum load recommended by the ‘Manufacturer’. This will
include any mass imposed onto the drawing vehicle when the ‘Combination
Vehicle’ is resting on a horizontal supporting plane.

GROSS TRAILER MASS (GTM) - the mass transmitted to the ground by the ‘Axle’ or
‘Axles’ of the trailer when coupled to a drawing vehicle and carrying its maximum
load approximately uniformly distributed over the load bearing area, and at which
compliance with the appropriate Australian Design Rules has been or can be
established.

TARE MASS - mass of a vehicle other than a L-group vehicle ready for service,
unoccupied and unladen, with all fluid reservoirs filled to nominal capacity except
for fuel, which shall be 10 litres only, and with all standard equipment and any
options fitted.

VSB-01 adds the following to the tare mass definition - (Fluid reservoirs do not include water tanks and waste water tanks
fitted to caravans).

The tare mass is the mass of the vehicle as it was delivered to the manufacturer. When you purchase your tug and then add things like a bull bar, winch, tow bar or anything else the tare weight of your tug is not altered. When the agent delivers your tug to you, the unladen weight will be increased by the weight of all the accessories that were added. The tare weight on your registration will be the figure that the manufacturer supplies and not the new unladen weight of the vehicle as you receive it. You may also add fixtures to your vehicle after delivery, again the tare weight is not altered.

The exact same rules apply to your van. The only difference is the manufacturer will know the exact correct weight of the tug. The van manufacturer will often estimate the weight. He may weigh the first unit of a particular model but will then change things as other units are produced, he then does not weigh that model again but it can be considerably heavier than the first one. The result is he issues a false tare weight.

Quite often the manufacturer does not build everything into the van that you order. The agent will add things like roll out awnings and battery systems. These extra bits add to the unladen weight of the van but do not alter the tare mass. Only the things you order that are provided by the van manufacturer are included in the tare weight. Many forum members think the extras should be included in the tare weight but these are the members that don't fully understand the process (I bet they would kick up a stink if they had to get their tug reassessed for its tare weight every time the added or removed accessories.)

Every time you add or remove weight to your vehicle (be it the tug or the van) this must be considered as part of the loading.

As for the the figure GVM (gross vehicle mass) that appears on registration papers, even though legislation uses different terms for the mass of trailers to that of other vehicles, the motor registry authorities do not include fields for the caravan mass figures in the database. They simply insert the ATM figure in the GVM field.

Clint, As Ozhumvee Peter said you may have one of the problems I described above. What removable loading was in the van when it was weighed? Was there water in the tanks and how much gas in the cylinders? What has been added to the van since it was delivered from the factory (storage boxes, battery systems?) There seems to be a high possibility you have one of those vans where the manufacturer guestimated the tare weight (I had a similar experience, more than 200 kg heavier than stated.)

PeterD
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AnswerID: 489012

Follow Up By: Barry 2 - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 13:03

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 13:03
Well explained Peter.
I bought a Slide on camper and was duded by 220kg heavier than quoted.
I have just ordered a new caravan and will be asking for a copy of the weigh bridge ticket this time.

cheers
Barry
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Reply By: GT Campers - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 15:29

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 15:29
yes unfortunately history records that many, many people have been sold caravans that can only legally carry a carton of beer before they become legally/technically overloaded. It is a situation that seems to be repeated often.

It seems the only fix for this is buyer knoweldge and vigilance
AnswerID: 489022

Follow Up By: Polaris - Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 21:57

Wednesday, Jun 20, 2012 at 21:57
Doesn't only apply to 'vans and trailers. My 2011 Patrol GU ST wagon is over GVM with 7 adults on board and full fuel tanks. No bullbar, no towbar, no roofrack, no AUX battery, no fridge, no drawer system, no snorkle - nothing else - just vehicle, 7 pax and full fuel. Landcruiser wagon is the same.
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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Thursday, Jun 21, 2012 at 09:10

Thursday, Jun 21, 2012 at 09:10
yeah that may be true however, you would know what your vehicle actually weighs before loading because you can trust your manufacturer's specs to be accurate
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Follow Up By: Polaris - Thursday, Jun 21, 2012 at 09:44

Thursday, Jun 21, 2012 at 09:44
GT - you are spot on there.

We went through an unfortunate experience after buying a Track Trailers Tvan Murranji Mk3 with front box option, and tried towing it with our 2010 Ford Ranger 4x4 dual cab.
There is a LONG thread on it - here

The trailer was putting so much weight on the ball that the Ford chassis was flexing!

Friends with a BT50 towing a Kimberley had the same happen and ended up breaking the rear chassis - came back from Weipa on a boat! Assessor and repairer both blamed excessive ball weight.
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Follow Up By: GT Campers - Thursday, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:41

Thursday, Jun 21, 2012 at 10:41
Yeah that is another of my pet hates - excessive ball weights... If one person can't pick up the hitch, it's too heavy :)

Now I know that is not always practical but it is a very good guide when loading (and designing/planning - as I sometimes do!) a trailer



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Reply By: LIFE MEMBER-snailbait - Saturday, Jun 23, 2012 at 19:58

Saturday, Jun 23, 2012 at 19:58
Hi Clint& CHELL
Toyota Land cruiser has a max tow cap of 3.5 tonne
Caravan industry has a load cap for caravans as a industry min of 300 KG FOR a single axle caravan and 400kg for a dual axle caravan
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