Landcruiser VDJ78 V8 Fuel Filter

Submitted: Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 15:03
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Just been reading the service manual and noticed the fuel filter isnt listed as needing to be replaced at any service interval. Anyone still running an original filter???? A Toyota brochure quotes "Toyotas new efficient fuel filter does not need to be replaced periodically". It then states non genuine filters will not filter extremely small particles. I have purchased the vehicle second hand, and notice a non genuine filter was used at 60000k's (a WCF95 filter). Just wondering what other owners are doing re filter changes.

See you in the bush..............

Craig & EJ
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Reply By: Searay - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 15:10

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 15:10
Hi there, I have a 200 series landcruiser and the hand book is the same. I change my fuel filter every 10 000ks just using toyota ones. I have also put a second ryco filter on with a large water trap and it gets done also. Check your air filter also, I cant remember the service change but mine is done every 10 000ks also.

cheers Troy
AnswerID: 492382

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 16:30

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 16:30
I was going to fit one of these – what micron size is the filter?
Or possibly what is the model number of the filter and trap?
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Follow Up By: Bob Y. - Qld - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:47

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:47
If you change your air filter every 10K, Troy, bet you're really popular at the local Toyota dealer. Obviously care for your 200, but would suggest it's overkill.

Totally agree with the 10K for fuel filters, espeecially those "funny" ones on the V8s.

Bob.

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Reply By: JimDi - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 15:32

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 15:32
Have a 2011 79 series. Whilst driving through Brisbane recently the fuel warning light came on. After advice from RACQ and Toyota drove it to the nearest dealership and had the filter replaced with 28000klm on the clock. The general thinking was that we had picked up dirty fuel recently...somewhere. But as we had travelled and refuelled Adelaide to Brisbane that could be anywhere. At least it did its job as did the warning light.

I too was surprised when I found that the fuel filter was not part of a regular servicing schedule. So it looks like it will be something I will need to think about especially when travelling.
Jim
AnswerID: 492384

Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 16:14

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 16:14
I have a V8 diesel Troopy 2008 – 80,000 ks on the clock.
My son has a diesel Hilux 2008 - Toyota says his fuel filter doesn’t need changing periodically.
At 75,000 ks he picked up a dirty load of fuel – it went past the filter and no fuel filter alarm came on. Shagged the injectors – cost him about $5,000 to get new ones fitted.
I now change mine in the Troopy at 40,000 ks and carry a spare genuine filter with me.
AnswerID: 492388

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 16:25

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 16:25
I should have mentioned – I now sample my fuel before refuelling.
Just got back from a month’s trip around the back blocks of South West WA.
Filled up at some of the smallest and shoddiest looking garages around the place - their fuel was as clean as a whistle.
Got home to Perth, was going to fill at a major suburban service station but it had the dirtiest diesel – I kept the sample - never got around to it, but I was going to make a written complaint.
I’d hate to mention the company’s name – but I don’t buy Shell any more.
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Reply By: Kris and Kev - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 17:04

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 17:04
Because the fuel filter is so easy to change yourself I do mine now depending on our travels. Example; changed mine half way through the Kimberley last year and again before the start of our trip this year, where I found the filter was very dirty and a lot of muck in the bottom of the bowl. Best to be on the safe side given the cost of dirty fuel injectors. I also now carry a spare when travelling. Kevin
AnswerID: 492397

Reply By: olcoolone - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 17:32

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 17:32
Why is there a need to change it if it is working OK.... we did ours on our Hilux at 90000K (5 Years) but the one on our 200 series we did last week at 25000K.

Both times when the fuel warning light came on.

Changing the fuel filter sooner then needed will not stop damage.
AnswerID: 492400

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 19:21

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 19:21
My son copped a load of dirty fuel in his 2008 diesel Hilux – it had flakes in it about the diameter of a match head – the dirty fuel alarm didn’t activate.
An independent diesel injector specialist replaced the injectors and cleaned the tanks - said that the amount dirty was too much for the system to handle. He said that the old diesel motors were more likely to stave and shut down but the modern common rail diesel is more likely to force dirt past a filter when its overloaded.
The Hilux had done 75,000ks but a month out of warranty – always serviced by Toyota but Toyota didn’t want to know about the problem. They accepted the diesel injector peoples report and told the son to ensure that he only used clean fuel in future.
I’m no expert, but to my mind replacing filters periodically has to diminish the risk of overloading the filter.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:31

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:31
Dennis,
Now I could be wrong about the later Toyotas, but I am pretty sure the warning light only activates if water is present. I think the filter plugging up results in loss of fuel and therefore power drops off.
Having said that I have installed an extra filter with a glass bowl before the standard filter. I guess I have been lucky and so far (touch wood) no dramas, but I do keep a close eye on that water bowl especially after topping up at what might be called a "questionable servo".

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:40

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:40
If stuff got through the filter then the filter is not filtering fine enough.... a fuel filter doesn't increase in microns the older it gets so changing it sooner then later is only going to reduce the chance of restriction.

There is no way flakes the size of a match head could on got through a filter that filters down to 2 microns.

I would say the deposit came after the filter and caused corrosion, you should of got the flakes analysed to find out what it was.

The pressure before the high pressure pump is about 15psi.

Next time have a look at the filter media and you will see that there is no way junk can be forced through.

Biggest cause of fuel system failure on CRD engines is water and other non standard solvents like injector cleaner.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 21:19

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 21:19
Spot on, any filter whether it be oil, fuel or air gets smaller in micron size particles passed through as it does it's job. Not much point filtering after the dirt has damaged the high pressure pump, much better to filter on the inlet side. You can change your fuel filter every other day and it will not make it more capable of dealing with a tankful of contaminated fuel. The same as changing your air filter and then driving into a sandstorm. It will not make it any better at doing it's job.


Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 22:05

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 22:05
Why didn't the Hilux's water alarm pick up the problem. Water damage wasn't flagged as the cause by Toyota or the Injector repairers - dirt was.
If a dirty filter won't pass dirt - why does Toyota advise that damage will occurr if you drive with the filter- clogged-alarm on.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:41

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:41
Hi Dennis,

Without seeing the vehicle and the damaged components in question the only explanation I could offer is that assuming the "water in system" warning device is not malfunctioning then as you stated, water in the fuel was not the cause. As far as I know the Toyota does not have a clogged fuel filter warning like the air filter has. CRD fuel systems generally supply fuel to the rail at much higher pressures than the older style injection pumps but I would assume the filter is in the line between the tank and pump and not after the pump, but I could stand corrected. If this is the case the only indication the driver would get would be a loss of power as the fuel supply is restricted. Continued operation may starve the pump so badly that cavitation erosion will damage the pump. The other possible source of fuel system problems is a fungus, usually caused by moisture which grows inside the tanks. These can be so fine grained that they will indeed pass through a filter and are a real hassle to get rid of but treatments are available.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:34

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 09:34
Dennis, did Toyota print "damage will occur" or does it say "damage may occur if you drive with a blocked filter"........ I would say the would word it like the second example.

In all our D4D books (5 off) it says the word "may"

You have to understand when Toyota says things like that the do it for a reason..... to lower the liability if something did go wrong, according to Toyota fitting non approved accessories and aftermarket part may void your warranty and decrease the life of your vehicle....

The water alarm functions when there is water detected in the water catchment bowl at the base of the filter..... the alarm for the fuel filter is two part, one part is where it picks up a restriction (no damage can be done) and the second one is for water.... when the water one alarms it still gives you a bit of time to drain the water from the bowl before damage will occur..... the fuel filter restriction alarm you can drive for thousands of kilometres before and noticeable difference, we did 1800 kilometres in our Hilux until we got to a dealer and purchased a new filter.

With the junk that was found in the after filter section of the injection system.... with out analysing it through a lab you are drawing straws to what it was other then junk...... bit like going to a doctor not feeling well and he says to you "yep there is something wrong, your not felling well".... you know your not well but with out knowing what is making you sick your drawing straws.

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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:30

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:30
Hi Olcoolone.
Thanks for the english lesson.

I haven’t read the manuals lately for the exact wording but the words “may occur” is still warning that you shouldn’t do it.
Neither the son's water alarm or the dirty fillter alarm activated - it had a genuine filter.

As I said before I am no expert but it was the advice of an independent diesel injector specialist and Toyota’s acceptance of their report that the filter system on my son’s Hilux malfunctioned, due to an overload of dirt. My son requested the written report - not Toyota. What do we do, obtain another specialist’s view and when do you stop? If it had still been under warranty we may have had a case against Toyota for the malfunction – Toyota had serviced the vehicle since new.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Thursday, Aug 09, 2012 at 17:43

Thursday, Aug 09, 2012 at 17:43
Dennis.... it's not about it being an English lesson, in law there is a big difference between "will" and "may".

As I said Dennis most manufacturers will use the word "may" to lower the chance of liability.

Smoking cigarettes "may" cause cancer..... if government used the word "will" I'm sure there would be a legal challenge to force the government to prove they do on every case.

If you drink alcohol it may cause liver damage.... it's a know fact, if your exposed to sun it may cause skin cancer.... if you don't have sun light you may lack vitamin D.... yet we all seem to still do most of them.

"May" is a word the can be used to describe an instance the could or could not happen.

The sad thing is there are so many specialists who still blame something for the cause with no real evidence to back there claims.

There are businesses out there who specialise in forensic reporting of mechanical failures.

We use them on certain failure to work what had caused something to fail..... these places employ engineers and comprehensive test equipment.

We have had reports come back up to 20 pages long with photo's taken using an electron microscope showing structure deforms.....

Without knowing what the contamination was in the first place it would be hard to pin point the exact cause.



And as for dirt getting through the filter.... if it did then there are ground to seek compensation from Toyota for designing a filtering system that was not capable of filtering that was out side of your sons control or knowledge.

But without the data to back it up your pushing ...... up a hill.

With any filter there could be a very very remote chance of bigger particles getting through as the standard is based on X microns at parts per million.

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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:14

Friday, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:14
Just what I needed another English lesson.
But back to the thread - I expect a modern well-made vehicle to be able to protect itself against contaminated fuel.
The Hilux’s filtering and alarm systems failed through no fault of my son.
He did everything by the book.
In the end – it was cheaper to repair the vehicle than have engineering and lab tests done, for a fight with Toyota for an unlikely compensation. Bearing in mind we had already sent them the first specialists report on a dirt overload - would it have changed things blaming water contamination or alarm systems failure.

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Reply By: Greg Newell- Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 18:12

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 18:12
Let's just say as a diesel mechanice by trade I change mine every 2o.ooo km easer to be safer than sorry. the tolerance in the microns in the Toyota filters are much finer then after market ones so spend a few bucks on the dear on now to save mega bucks after a cheep one lets water passed and into the system you really do only get what you pays for when it comes to this type of thing
AnswerID: 492403

Follow Up By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 19:36

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 19:36
Hi Greg, after a bit of reading I am leaning toward something like a Racor 445 30 micron pre-filter with clear bowl and water alarm for my 2008 common rail D4D. My view is I want as much early warning as possible..outlay not an issue, just want relibility and no nasty and costly failures. If it works ok there then may even replace the troopy pre-filter for a similar set-up and for the same reasons. Will always use genuine Toyota filters as the last line of defence though. Do you reckon I am on the right track?
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Reply By: Greg Newell- Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:02

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 20:02
Yes any extra filters placed inline before the Toyota filter are a plus.I run one on the hilux about 30cm away from the Toyota filter I drain this every other day and can say that it is the way to go. You can see in the glass bowl if there is any signs of water . Rather than having a alarm sounding it serves the duel purpose of wile the bonnets up you tend to cast your eye over other areas at the same time eg belts hoses and other fluid levels . You can never do to many per trip checks
AnswerID: 492415

Follow Up By: craigandej - Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 22:04

Monday, Aug 06, 2012 at 22:04
Thanks for the info Greg, I will change the filter back to a genuine one ASAP, and also get a spare. Any suggestions on a brand of pre filter that will fit on the V8 troopy?
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Reply By: Greg Newell- Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 06:35

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 06:35
I find ryco base fitted with a c.a.v. Filter are the best after market type a because thay are very common eg used on tractors trucks and ready avaubull at most places on the road .the cav filter is easy to chaneg has a I a high micron count inside the filter and are priced around $20 per filter . Thay are rather small so don't take up too much space .the filter body can be fitted with variouse size fittings to suite the flue line hose the glass bowle has a easy to operate drain and gives good vision as to what is inside the bowle I'm Shute you will have no issues with this type of set up . I have never seen a unit fail but do use quality fule hose and clamps and you will have trouble free travels
AnswerID: 492434

Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:21

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 10:21
I have looked into the issue of prefiltering on the new CRD V8s and one thing that is very important. Don't put anything that will restrict the fuel flow. The motor needs at least 60litres per minute flow rate and anything less can - over time - over heat and over stress the fuel pump and starve the injectors of fuel. Hopefully you would get a low fuel pressure engine light before it is bad. If it is a slow starve you might not get a warning just a blown fuel pump. $$$

I change my Toyota filter annually and I have two vacuum wrapped spares with me at all times, especially after getting some bad fuel in Meekatharra once. From asking around the toyota filter is pretty good at doing its job but pays to have spare ones on hand in case you are too far from a dealership.

I also have a Water Watch system installed to give a warning on any water contamination. After asking around water is the biggest danger for a common rail engine. Excess water in the fuel can purge past the standard toyota filter and destroy the fuel pump and injectors. I have the Water Watch system fitted down at my fuel tank change over solenoids so a good distance before the motor and hopefully enough time to pull over and discharge the bad fuel.

Serendipity



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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 13:11

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 13:11
Hi Serendipity
Is “at least 60 litres per minute flow rate” a test rate on fuel pump with no connection on its outlet.
I no expert but I am baffled as how a pump would have that flow rate in operation.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Thursday, Aug 09, 2012 at 22:15

Thursday, Aug 09, 2012 at 22:15
Hi Dennis

I am no mechanic so cannot verify the flow rate and I will admit I am only quoting sources I have read on the internet. They make sense and I am not willing to gamble my engine on it. I believe the fuel pumped by the fuel pump is not all used by the injectors, rather only 20% is used by the injectors, the rest is used to cool the fuel pump itself and then sent back to the fuel tank.

Interfering with the amount of fuel flow would sensibly cause problems. One I read was cavitation in the fuel pump with air and in effect wearing out the parts. Low supply of fuel giving lack of power. Low supply of fuel meaning the fuel pump is not sufficiently cooled down.

I have also read where others have introduced prefilters to then add a another fuel pump in the line as the motor one cannot suck enough fuel.

I would like to know for sure as there is so much being bandied around it is hard to work out what is real and what is just scare tactics to get everyone running back to toyota for a service.

Cheers

Serendipity


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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:21

Friday, Aug 10, 2012 at 11:21
Thanks for the reply.
Its a pity that Toyota won't fit one as an optional extra.
I must get in touch with a diesel injector service company who services the large iron ore companies and see how they approach the problem.
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Reply By: JAX W - Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 16:55

Tuesday, Aug 07, 2012 at 16:55
Our 200 Series has a placcard on the drivers door which explains the function of the Fuel warning Light. Basically, if the light flashes there is water in the filter. The advice is to drain the filter and continue on. If the light comes on and stays on, the "Fuel system is abnormal" and advice is "Take to a Dealer".

I have changed fuel filters on the side of the road twice so far after the light came on. The first time there was water in the filter body. The second there filter was "black as ..." I always carry at least one spare filter (two on long trips) and the tools to carry out a change of filter anywhere.

I have also fitted a pre-filter and water trap which allows for visual inspection of water contamination. I also carry a spare filter for the pre-filter too.

The Cruiser has now completed 118,000km and I am comfortable I have managed the fuel filter/contamination fairly well. I don't fancy paying for failed fuel pump and/or injectors.

For those with access to LCOOL you will find the warning light reset procedure that I posted on the 200 Series section a few years ago. Just do a search and you will find helpful information.

Regards, Jack
AnswerID: 492471

Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:57

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 12:57
Hi Jack,
My mechanic wants to fit a prefilter to my 70 series V8 diesel.
Because there is not much room under the bonnet of these vehicles when a second battery is fitted - he may have to do bit of re-plumbing.
Is your prefilter before the fuel pump or after it?
What micron size is the filter?
What is the make and model number of the filter/watertrap.
Any information appreciated.
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Follow Up By: JAX W - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 13:38

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 13:38
Hullo Dennis

The pre-filter I fitted to our 200 Series is a Stanadyne FM100 Fuel Manager unit. It is a 30 micron filter (and water trap) fitted UPSTREAM of the Toyota filter.

The "kit" was supplied by Dorans Diesel Injection Service at Aitkenvale QLD. (phone 07 4779 7944). The "kit" includes a well made bracket that allows the filter to be securely mounted under the bonnet close to the OEM filter.

Of course I cannot advise you of a suitable location etc for your 70 Series, but suggest you contact the Dorans people.

As mentioned, I fitted the unit myself and have had no real issues with the install. There is little space for it to fit, so I had to be careful of obstructions. I wrapped an air conditioning pipe with insertion rubber to ensure there was no risk of the new filter housing rubbing a hole in the alloy pipe work.

Good luck with your "project".

Regards, Jack
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 20:28

Wednesday, Aug 08, 2012 at 20:28
Thanks for the info Jack
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