How long will your vehicle last

Submitted: Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 18:40
ThreadID: 97499 Views:3896 Replies:11 FollowUps:14
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Just starting this thread so it doesn't impact on a recent post.

In that post there was some comment on the mid range vehicles to go the distance when worked.

Here is a view from my perspective.

I haven't been a fan of all the electronic gadgets but you can't get away from them in any of the new vehicles. As Ned said "such is life."

What I would like to say is what have people found. I know this is going to open up a can of worms but this is how we learn what works and what doesn't. Please read on.

For non members I have a 1989 troopcarrier fitted with a 6.5l chev diesel. It has served me well and will pull everything backward from idle except an F truck. NOTE. Idle. Had 3 tonne + on the back yesterday and just idled of in 2nd gear on a more than slight hill. Damn she is only rated to 2.5 tonne towing I must report myself. This means I have no axe to grind or one eye to satisfy.

Now for the nitty gritty.

You all know about the 3l Nissan Patrol engine failures but that started 10 years ago to one engine that the manufacturer didn't back on warranty. Well things have moved on from then and I haven't heard of any other major problems with the new small diesel engines. Please read on.

Yes!! There are injector failures but these span the whole range of diesels, big, small and costly.

What I have noticed is the problems the smaller engines have with torque low down low in the rev range. I know it is put down to dual mass flywheels but to get these things going is a pain on anything but flat ground. Note! With a load and yes I drive them and find them a pain, not to mention the strain on the transmission.

Those who have the V8 cruiser utes please don't get to smug (I don't want to start world war 3) but they are not the same quality we once enjoyed. How do I know we have 30 of them so I may just drive the odd one and I may just have driven the odd old 1HZ ute for the last 20 something years.

What I do believe is we will see no more manual boxes in the not to distant future. One of the reasons is the clutches and when the engine is on song the strain when someone is giving it a boot full and changing gear. Meet a mate that I haven't seen for 15 years and he said his boss had just bought him a new freightliner to pull a float. He said it was an auto/manual and that he hated for one week. Then he thought it was the ants pants.

Please this is not to stir people up but for those who have a point of view or experience with the newer breeds to give feed back especially with how their engines and running gear are lasting. Could the reports come from those that use theirs for heavy towing or of road work.

I shell now put my flack jacket on.

RA.
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Reply By: Axle - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 19:43

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 19:43
G/Day RA,......I Agree About the auto side of things,and there are some magic autos out there, They just take that strain out of it all!! But! once again electics play a big part in their operation,mention some of them to a auto repairer and they break into a cold sweat ..lol, ..but eh'', we have to live with it..... A FJ holden was a mind boggling thing to a guy still trundling around in T Model Ford, or Horse and cart..LOL.



Cheers Axle.
AnswerID: 493133

Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:08

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:08
Axle,
That's all I asked for was a good honest answer and you have given it.
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Reply By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 19:46

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 19:46
Gday Rockape,

The problem with new models is that it takes time before we know the answers. Lets face it it took 5 years before we knew the 1990 Landcruiser TDs had big end problems or 5 years before we knew of the ZD30 holing pistons or of the dual cabs bending chassis or the V8 TD Landcruisers using oil or the D4-D Hilux having injector problems.

By the same token it's taken at least 5 years before we knew the 1Hz Landcruisers were so reliable or the 1HD-FTE or TD42 being a gem of a motor.

As far as I know, nobody can say what lies ahead for the new BT50/Ranger. It looks like an all-new model to me. It's a pity it shares the same mames as the predecessors. It's bound to have a few teething problems which hopefully will be minor.

So if anyone buys a new model that's just released, you take a risk that it might be a future lemon. If you hang off buying for 5 years chances are that the problems have been sorted.

I'd love to buy a new vehicle and money is not an issue. But I'm hanging onto what I've got until one of these new models stands the test of time.

Cheers
Phil
AnswerID: 493134

Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:16

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:16
Phil,
Thanks for your reply and i know you have a lot of expertise in this area.

1Hz and 1HD-FTE engine truly great engines.

I hope the new Ranger/Bt 50 are as good also as I am looking at one. The old girl has severed me well but it is time to move on for me. Guess time will tell.

RA.
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Follow Up By: blue one - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 20:32

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 20:32
Phil,
Same mind set. I am waiting for the new models to prove themselves.

I did suffer a 3ltr Nissan before upgrading to 300,000kms trouble free with a TDI 4.2.

Have the money to spend though I want the same run of kms as the last one did.

Don't mind the Troopy other than articulation which is limited.

Cheers

Steve
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Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 19:48

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 19:48
G'day Rockape

I wonder what post you are referring to ???

I have to make this quick as I'm about to head out.

After having Patrols for 20 years I would have never ever in my wildest dreams pictured myself driving a petrol Rodeo ! Well, as I said "in the other" post - I could not praise that ute up enough, it performed faultlessly for 8 years - got 220,000 k's out of the first clutch with some fairly heavy duty towing on a regular basis. It's 4wd capabilities blew some people away - made it up some very very steep rocky hills in the High Country where both Cruisers and Patrols failed ( could be the driver ) It was smooth, quiet and the missus loved it because she didn't need to wear sports bras when she was in it.

Earlier this year I was given one of two Landcruiser 200 series V8 diesels for a month as we filmed some ads for Toyota in Central and Northern Australia. After the month finished I absolutely loved the car - apart from it's lack of serious offroad capabilities. If I had more $$$ I would have bought it.

3 weeks ago I picked up my new PX Ranger XLT Supercab auto and with just over 4000 k's on it I will say it is as good as the 200 series in nearly every way and in some ways marginally better ! Yes, it is a totally different car in many ways but I don't really know where the extra $40,000 goes in the Cruiser ?? I am NOT bagging the cruiser - I would LOVE to own one !!!

Yes dear I'm nearly finished ! ( nag nag nag )

I bought the auto to eliminate all the clutch problems these mid size 4wd's are having and I think it was a good decision.

Longevity ? - I obviously cannot comment on that as I've only just got it but I will certainly let people know if and when it fails. In a few weeks time it's gunna cop a floggin on a trip and I will let everyone know how it goes.
My only concern with the Ranger is that if it breaks down you don't take it to a mechanic you ring Microsoft !

Never typed so fast in all my life - hope all makes sense.

Good topic to post Rockape !


Cheers


Gazz
AnswerID: 493135

Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:19

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:19
Thanks Gazz,

Good to see an honest answer with no side tracking.

RA.
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Reply By: Member - nick b - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:13

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:13
Rockape : I'm not to sure your on the money here !!!!

I would think what you see coming out of the factories is more to do with sale and regulations .

" the problems with smaller engines torque low down "... might have a lot more to do with tuning ...most of these vehicle would be built to a price !!!!

In regards to 3L nissan patrol .....Big vehicle with small engine !!!! v L/C big vehicle big engine, twin turbo V8 !!!!!
I cant see how a nissan patrol engine is going to last anything like a cruiser !!!

we have a L/C v8 4.7 & a triton 3.2 T/D , power vise not much difference even when towing .

good luck with your thread , Its an interesting subject .

No affiliations to any ....cheers



Cheers Nick b
VKS 737 ( 0915 )

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AnswerID: 493138

Follow Up By: Rockape - Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:27

Saturday, Aug 18, 2012 at 20:27
Nick, I know what you are talking about but with the smaller motors it is causing many problems.

Thanks,
RA.

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Reply By: Tonyfish#58 - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 08:16

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 08:16
Well I have taken my 07 Common Rail Rodeo on 130k of driving with a lot of it Off Road in some far away places.

Engine still purrs and I have just put a Chip express Chip in it (Will be interested to see how that goes)

The only issues have been fuel & brakes.

had to replace a faulty sensor (bad manufacture) and the fuel pump in the tank.

The Brakes are like toys (rear drum) I did a new set in one wet simpson crossing!!

They also wear down from full handbrake to no hand brake when I do sand & water trips.

Maybe other cars are the same?

Looked yesterdy & I need new Slave Cyld & rear oil seals in the rear.

I am wrorried about what happens once the electrics start playing up, must be only a matter of time? I have put it through a lot of water crossings to date & so far so good (Just had to do the starter motor brush springs though)

Cheers Tony
AnswerID: 493158

Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:25

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:25
Tony,
Thanks for your info.
I noticed in the other thread about your doubts about it's max allowed towing ability.

Just to let you know many prime movers which have their max allowed load on all the time will run up to and over 100c even with the Horton fan constantly engaged.

I also don't understand manufactures using drums on the back.

RA.
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:19

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 10:19
Interesting the comments about the "stressed" 3.0LTD GU and the "unstressed" big V8 in the 200. But a quick check shows that the Nissan only makes ~120Nm per litre while the 200 makes ~140Nm per litre. Which engine is more stressed???

I know there are lots of other variables (4 vs 8 cylinders etc...) but the point is that size is not the only measure of stress. I had the 3.0TD GU and now have the 200 4.5TTD, so have a pretty good idea first hand of what I think is better :)

Engine makers keep extracting more power from less capacity and in doing so generally improve efficiency. However, this typically comes at the cost of long term reliability as the margins for wear keep getting reduced.

Cheers

Captain
Its not what you drive, but how you drive it!
LC 200 + AOR Quantum

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AnswerID: 493169

Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:06

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:06
Interesting thread, Rockape..The majority of new car buyers probably dont keep
the car for 5 years so longevity isnt an issue. Prices for injectors at
more than $1000 ea dont do much to induce engine rebuilds, when taken in conjunction
with labour & other parts costs. Those that roll over their vehicles wear the immense
cost of depreciation in return for hopefully trouble free motoring, but this is not
infallible either, but you do have the latest model..proven or not.
I know folk that update before warranty runs out, but their overall cost of ownership
is huge, even before running costs are added.
When I started to look for a 4wd touring wagon I wanted a diesel manual...ended up
with a petrol auto....regrets...none..problems...none. I've decided the "diesel advantage" is largely mythical in my case & would never buy another manual either.
Which leaves me where ?? largely where I always was..buying proven, low k, used cars at
the bottom end of the spectrum..less than $15k, maintain them well & drive em
till they die...never had a major mechanical failure yet. Capital cost over the life of
the car is negligible.
The future..??.. probably only got up to 10 years touring left..dont envisage the
need to buy another 4wd in that time..
So the answer to your question is...my 4wd will, hopfully, last till its 20 years old.
My daily driver..not sure..its only 18 now, but still hasnt got 100k on it yet..:))))
cheers.....oldbaz.
AnswerID: 493174

Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:39

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:39
Yep Baz,
My old girl is 23 now and well maintained.

I have a 1999 Hyundai excel FF1. (f ing fast one LOL.) it cost a bit over $10000 new and it has had 1 intake air sensor replaced at $230. I guess I would still get about $3000 to $3500 for it as it is in good nick. That works out at around $550 depreciation a year or a bit over $10 a week.

Hope she lasts well for you.
RA.

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Reply By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:37

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:37
I wonder if what I call "The News Bulletin Syndrome" could be having an effect.
What the hell is a News Bulletin Syndrome?
Two possible headlines.
1. Dear old Mrs McReedy had a lovely day at the local fair and sold lots of jars of her home made jams and pickles and got home safe and sound.

2. Elderly lady bashed and possibly sexually assaulted, robbed of here belongings.

My point being (in case you were wondering if I had one or just had a bit of time on my hands..(;-)) ) is I suspect morbid curiosity and bad news would sell more papers. Are we seeing more bad reports because the experience stirs us to complain loud and long to anyone who might listen? This could be brought on when a manufacturer doesn't seem to want to know.

Just a thought

As to the towing ability of "medium size" v "full size" 4WD's I think we did that one to death in the "previous thread".

My vehicle, a 1991 HZJ75 now sporting a HDJ-FT engine and H150F gearbox. I replaced the original 1HZ engine for no other reason than the recently purchased 22' van was causing excessive wear of the gear stick (;-0).
While the transplant was taking place I needed something else to get around in. The good lady wife saw me in my greasy overalls eyeing off her Commodore and made it quite clear that even thinking about it would have dire consequences. So I bought a 2004 Toyota Hi Ace that one of our sons-in-law was getting rid of. This van had 296,000 kls on the clock and was all original including the clutch. It had been used as a postal delivery van. You know that bloody thing starts first time every time, uses about half a litre of oil between 10,000k oil changes and doesn't blow any smoke. Says a bit for these new fangled CRD engines. Most of the old carby jobs would have given up the ghost long ago.

Cheers
Pop
AnswerID: 493176

Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:55

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:55
Pop,
the reason I started the thread was because the other thread was being hijacked and I do have an interest in hearing from those that actually own a common rail as that is the only way info gets transferred.

Then again I guess I owned a common rail engine many years ago. I think they were first built in the late 1930's. 2 Stroke Detroits that came in 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 inline engines and 6, 8, 12 and 16 V engines.

All the best,
RA.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 14:52

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 14:52
Hi Rockape,

Yeah the good old Detroits. Actually they used a fuel transfer pump (low pressure 60 psi or there abouts) with unit injectors. Spent many a year fixing them. Even the PT system the Cummins used were similar but varied the pressure in the "common rail" to vary power and revs. The CRD of today uses very much higher pressure and electronic engine and transmission management systems.
The main point I was trying to make was that IMHO even though the day of being able to fix on the side of the road is largely gone, they do seem a lot more reliable and longer lasting.
It's just old dynosaurs like me that have trouble getting their heads around the concept that the on board computor is smarter than me (;-)).

Have a good one

Pop

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Reply By: Member - Wamuranman - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:40

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 11:40
Hi Rockape,

I think the longevity of the current model modern vehicles will be determined not by whether the engine is worn out or not but by the cost of maintaining it in operating order.
Modern commonrail diesel engines=complexity=expensive repairs.
For example I have a 60 series on my hobby farm as a bush basher and its nigh on 30 years old ...but relatively inexpensive to repair. E.g. I can get a set of 6 new injectors for the 2H engine on Ebay for $380 .. and can fit them myself.
In comparison the injectors for the 200series are over $1000 ea (x 8) plus the cost of fitting. I cannot see too many 200 series being used as bush bashers in 25 to 30 years time! Another example if you have a leak in the steering rack on the 200 series....the engine has to come out to fix (about $12,000 repair). I can't see too many owners doing that when they are say 15 to 20 year old vehicle.
So I think the longevity of modern engines themselves is now becoming irrelevant.....cost repairs will see them go to the wrecking yards long before they are worn out.
Cheers
AnswerID: 493178

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:05

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:05
Spot on with that Wamuranman. With the complexity of the modern vehicle the best repair tool kit, for anything other than broken belts or coolant hoses, is a mobile phone.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:45

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 12:45
Mate my next touring vehicle is going to be a tilt tray so I can get my fuel for free as I pick up the broken ones.

I said to an RACQ road guy that he shouldn't be driving a ute but driving a tilt tray.

On the other hand we haven't had many problems with the cruisers, wiring or electronics.

RA.
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Reply By: olcoolone - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 13:11

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 13:11
The age old question..... I'm sure it raised it's head when we went from valves to transistors to chips and when the first black and white TV was released....(colour and sitting to close will make you go blind)!

Most electronics are reliable and so are most new vehicles and only time will tell.

Engineering has gone in leaps and bounds and so has what people expect and I'm not talking about the 2% who says an 80 series is better then a 200 series....I'm talking about the 98% who says how bad an 80 series is.... it's what drives the market.

Every one who is bitching about "I'm never going to sell my 60 series" will come to a point in there life where they will have no option then to upgrade to one of these newer unreliable 100 series with it's electronic controlled 1HDT-E engine..... hell how unreliable they must be with 150Kw and 400nM of torque.

I think it's time some have to let go and sell their Amstrad PC, upgrade there Beta video player, understand Motorola brick phone aren't in fashion and realise we have adopted the European metric system.

People hate change or stuff they don't understand and will find every excuses to avoid it.... even if it means being disadvantaged...... a real man drink BEER, not poofy wine or latta's.
AnswerID: 493182

Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 15:36

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 15:36
Coolone,
I agree with what you have said times are a changing and like it or not we have to change with them.

One thing I don't like is the EGR system that reduces emissions.

Little things can stop them dead in their tracks. Example of this was the 3 tonne load I had the other day. It was my sons BT50 loaded with his work gear. Key was dropped and flew apart. In the process the transponder was lost and where it happened there was no way of finding it. So off to the dealer with the vehicle and 3 days later it will be returned after they get that tiny little chip in from down south.

As for the wine! I like a red but then again I like a rum.

Have a good one,
RA.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 20:17

Sunday, Aug 19, 2012 at 20:17
Yes thing are getting more expensive with newer vehicle and little things can go wrong stopping people in their tracks.

I think overall most newer electronics and vehicle designs are very reliable.

We constantly see heavy vehicles that have since new always towed three trainers at maximum weight over some of the roughest tracks in Australia day in and day out that still run original electronics and many original parts.... but things like radiators, intercoolers, condensers, springs and cab mounts still seem the fail just like the good old days.

The art of maintaining modern vehicles hasn't changed that much over the years and I think the internet has a lot to answer for...... you hear horror stories of this breaking or it cost a fortune to repair all the time, most cases it is isolated and not every vehicle suffers from it.

When the current Hilux came out in 2005 there was a lot of talk about how it will not last and how it has lost it's "unbreakable" title.... all I know is we did over 100,000k in 5.5 years towing at maximum weight with 65,000K of it being off road with no major problems.

People these day drive longer distances due to less fatigue and they travel faster over rough ground due to better NVH properties, suspension geometry and IFS.

About EGR systems.... I'm still not convinced either way as yet but I do know in heavy vehicles with the Cummins EGR and recently with the new Cat ACCERT engines the exhaust is clean and both have had their fair share of problems.

Time will tell.... and I'm sure this conversation will continue for many generations to come.
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Reply By: Jeff P - Monday, Aug 20, 2012 at 01:55

Monday, Aug 20, 2012 at 01:55
The problem with the current crop of 2.8-3.2 litre super tow vehicles is they are throw away if anything goes wrong with them it will cost you an arm and leg ,$1000 for an injector what a joke ! and to tow 3ton with these vehicles it reminds me of the flea circus with the flea atached to the wagon!I have a 3ton plus van which is towed by a chevy silverado 6.6 and I can assure you that I know its behind me ,I also have a ford ranger 3.0 and it would tow my van fine and use more fuel doing so(it pulls like hell from from idle to redline) but if anything went wrong the 3ton van would push the ranger where ever it liked !If these new utes were designed to tow such loads how come they dont have an electric brake control with wiring fitted from the factory, tow /haul mode or engine brake ? As someone has already mentioned Marketing !!!!Most people would not keep a vehicle beyond 200000km and all of these new vehicles would just be run in at that amount of Km's but you go to a car yard and try sell your lastest V8 or 3.0 litre common rail diesel that's done over 100000km and they will give you bugger all for a trade !
Autoshift eatons are just the interim to the new fully automatic transmissions that Volvo/Mack, Allison have coming
PS I can buy a common rail injector for my chevy from ebay for about $300 dollars
PS I also have a MC licence
Night shift sucks !
Jeff
Jeff
AnswerID: 493234

Follow Up By: Rockape - Monday, Aug 20, 2012 at 06:20

Monday, Aug 20, 2012 at 06:20
Jeff,

Yep the parts are dear and a little while back I bought 8 6.5l top of the line injectors with installation kit delivered from the states in 5 days for less than $500. Could have bought cheaper ones for $260. My guess is the prices will come down as aftermarket companies tool up and start manufacturing them.

Here is on for you. OIl filter for my 6.5l genuine from Holden a little over $10, aftermarket oil filter from Supercheap over $16.

Yes the Auto/auto manuals are sure here in the trucks and many are converting their fleets as the old trucks are traded. Mate of mines boss bought him a new Freightliner for float work and he hated it for a week. Now he loves it.

One thing that stands out is the kerb weight of the new Ranger/BT 50 is not much lower than the 70 series Utes and Troopcarriers and I think the D max Colorado (sorry I don't know about the Tritons weight) are lighter.

My old HJ57 can tow 2.5t legally but when the HZJ cruisers came out it went to 3.5t and has stayed that way until today. Same chassis, same running gear with the only difference being the engine. THe old 12ht engines produced more torque and power than the 1HZ engines so that can't be the reason.

You certainly have quite a good tow vehicle and a very good engine.

The small capacity common rails have been around for a few years now and beside the 3L Nissan I haven't heard of any common problems except injectors and clutches.

RA.
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