Hilux Set To Take Sales Crown

They don't have an injector issue. All common rail diesels can be affected by fuel quality issues. Common rail diesel injectors are built by Denso for example and are seen in all brand common rail cars. Ask Nissan, Ford, Mazda, VW or anyone.?

Except Mitsubishi!

D4D's have a well known injector issue!

Slowlux.? Would have to be on a par with a 100 series V8 I'd reckon, especially as I have one. Herd mentality.? Yeah we all sheep have no idea what to buy and so we buy a Hilux. Thanks for the super intelligent comments Nick what would we do without you.

Dont think the numbers quite add up to that statement Terrfirma.
100 series V8 - 170kw & 410nm
Hilux - 126kw & 343nm

Put a couple of tonnes behind it and see what performs........

Gotta disagree the direct comment says the Hilux is slow, it is a 4wd ute not a performance car, as is the 100 series which would use close to twice the fuel around town petrol vs diesel Hilux, its all relative. At the end of the day the Hilux continues to outsell everything, not bad for a car that was designed 8 years ago. End of story really isnt it.?

I drive both the 70 series V8 and the Hilux for work. I think it's all about horses for courses.

Sorry boys I should have put a LOL behind my comment .....
I didn't think anyone would have taken it seriously

Spot on Cruiser must be the tall poppy syndrome, amazing success story for the age of the design, probably the biggest success story of the modern era. The most reliable rig and cheap to run, it ticks all the boxes.

Um sorry I must have missed something.... are we throwing the Mitsubishi variant of the Hi Lux into the mix.....(;-))

Then why do thay out sell the want to be . The numbers speak for them self .

Some people just don't get it. Cruiser utes and 70 series are classic rock solid no fuss vehicles, who makes anything better? Tell me what will the mines buy if they don't buy these? Give me an alternative? It's not about bells and whistles, who makes the most power and creature comforts, its about dependability and reliability, that's it, go and buy Range Rovers or Amaroks if you want something different. If you don't get it well I guess there's still hope. Reliability, dependability, durability, no fuss and cheap to run, proven formula call it what you want, that's the deal and that's why they outsell everything.!

Greg Toyota are outselling the oposition due to the Hilux's past reputation, closer pricing & the current low finance. RA has hit the nail on the head when he suggests several other brands have passed the Lux on both features & performance. At work we have a fleet of almost 200 light utes with the majority of brands represented. No longer is the Hilux any better than the others in reliability & with their inferior power & tow rating are finding that in many cases they can't do the job some of the new offerings can.
Must say I have seen a couple of long term (20+ years) Toyota drivers in our club just buy Ford Rangers but withToyota's strong brand following, many simply wouldn't change even if the others are better.
Cheers Craig......................

Hate to rock the boat but it is already happening.

BMA, BHPBilliton, Xtrata are already changing to other manufacturers.

How would I know. This is the area I work in.

Toyota have lost the contract to supply the BMA coal mines.

I will state it again. They haven't kept up and no the 70 series classic rock solid vehicles are not the same build quality as of old. How would I know. I have driven them for the last 25 years every working day and watched what has changed. This comes from a Troop carrier owner who has had 2 of them and the last one for 18 years.

If you want a list of the maintenance issues I will post them from a mining point of view. With an underground compliant vehicle costing between $120000 and $140000 they expect a better run maintenance wise.

My old 1HZ cruiser 7+ years underground. New ones in the tip after 3.5 years.

There is one thing in this life I am not one eyed.

RA.

G'Day RA,
As a matter of interest, what are they replacing them with?

My criteria for outback travel is spare parts availability & proven track record so I have an open mind on my Hilux replacement. Dmax?

Cheers
Stu

What are they buying Rock Ape?

Crackles,
I just put a deposit on a Ranger today.

I have taken a punt on it being a good vehicle.

I won't buy a Nissan on the fact they never backed the problems with the 3L motor.

I don't like the look of the Triton although I believe they are a great vehicle and have great warranty.

The D-max is under powered for me being only 380nm of torque where my old 6.5l powered Troopy was dynoed at 430nm.

The Colorado has the bigger powered motor but I preferred the bigger cubic inches. Also the same as the D-max the transfer case hangs down.

The Bt 50 lost because the local dealer is above it all. They also have the Toyota and Hyundai stables and have crossed my path twice so I am not going back for a third time.

Amaroks are to close to the ground for me and to small in cubes.

People say the smaller vehicles can't tow the weights the cruisers can and that is why the Hiluxes are kept to about 2.25 tonne towing capacity. Well the old 1hz cruiser weighs "KERB WEIGHT" about 2.2tonne and can tow 3.5t but these light weight utes go around the same kerb weight as the cruiser utes and Troopies. How come my old troopy has a towing capacity of 2.5t and the next model which is exactly the same can tow 3.5t and please don't say it is the engine difference because the 12HT engine will blow the doors off a 1HZ. It is also not braking (electric or over ride brakes needed at that weight) or the gearbox as the next model had a weaker box.

RA

Crackles, can understand why some people are buying Ford Rangers etc, simply because you have a current design competing against an 8 year old product. But the reailty is the Hilux is about to become the No 1 selling vehicle again, an amazing achievement. When the new Hilux comes late next year it will be very interesting to see what happens. People buy proven track records and the Toyota reputation, that may change but it doesnt look like it right now.

TerraFirma,
They have already lost their competitive edge and if the other manufacturers fail then they will be back in again.

Ford are backing their product by offering our mob 5 vehicles at a ridiculous price to trial them. This is in the worst environment you will find. About 22 hours a day underground in dust, mud, rocks, water up to and over the bonnet, 1 in 6 inclines and declines and turning all the time in low range with not very caring people operating them.

I know Hiuxes don't cut it down there so it will be interesting to see if the Rangers do.

RA.

Yes I agree, an amazing marketing achievement.

Rock Ape keep us posted on how the Rangers go. If the Hilux doesnt cut it as you say I would be very interested to learn how a Ford may cut it?

Terrafirma,

yes I will do that and it is a shame that I am retiring as I would have been given one of the Rangers to trial.

I will keep in contact with one of the LV fitters who will let me know how they are going. He owns a Hilux so the feed back will be honest.

The main thing about the mine Rangers is you get to know the problems very quickly as they go through hell every day.

I don't get my rRanger until January so it will be a fair wait for any info from me on it's progress.

Retiring..? Lucky man. In your previous comments you mentioned you were taking a "PUNT" with the Ranger. It maybe sometime before we know how the Ranger and the Mazda perform etc. Please don't take this the wrong way RA but last time I checked the world's most reliable cars Ford weren't even in the top 20. So I am extremely interested to hear how a Ford could cope in the harsh enviroment you talk about where the Hilux couldn't? Perhaps the enviroment is the issue and not the vehicle so maybe it's a little unfair to judge the Hilux where others haven't gone before?

Yes you are correct and I am taking a punt due to the vehicle being a brand new model that hasn't stood the test of time yet. So we will see.

No I don't take it the wrong way as we have to look at all sides of the equation.

Personally I don't believe they will hack it as but Ford are keen to really try them out and back their product. Hard rock underground can be very cruel to a vehicle.

The Hiluxes have gone underground but they have never been used as a work vehicle doing the serious yards.

The cruisers stand up well with their running gear. Probably do cv's every 4 months and screw the odd tailshaft off. Brakes are aftermarket SIBS fail safe ones.

Where they have changed is the amount they are rusting compared to the old series. They also have a lot of problems with a/c condensers, compressors and starter motors due to the positioning of these and the fact that the condensers are nowhere near the quality of old. The cost of maintaining these vehicles has become to great.

It is noticeable that they spend a lot more time being repaired with miners trying to beg, borrow or steal a ute.

With the Luxes not having a 5 star ancap rating has also hurt them as has their towing capacity. Many of the caravans out there can't be towed legalily by the Luxes.

They Rangers will have problems that show up quickly underground as all vehicles have one or two problems.

Maybe common knowledge but I was talking to an old work mate that said two of their Old model BT 50's (160000K) had cracked the oil cooler heat exchanger on the engines and the coolant had dropped into the sump and destroyed them. He is a mechanic and as such has others he knows in the trade. One told him he had seen a couple of engines that also had the same problem.

Keep us posted, sounds like they cop a punishment. Your comments on rust are interesting, I wonder what has caused this. I can understand certain components failing as models change. Common rail injectors are a classic one. Nowadays the vehicles have more things to go wrong which I feel doesn't help. Take a look at a BMW Spares Warehouse, it will frighten you for life.

Rockape, You might want to read this. What surprises me is that he cannot get the part and it's a warranty job. This is exactly why people buy Hiluxes.

New BT50 Fault
Submitted: Wednesday, Sep 05, 2012 at 18:28
Happy nomad
Warning to new BT50 owners.

I bought one of the first BT50s (Freestyle) in Newcastle in November 2011.

Up until now (done 20.000km) the car has performed to all my expectations. I carry a slide-on camper on the back which weighs about 900kg when loaded up for a trip and other than the expected spring sag the car handles the load well.

A warning that I have just had an electronic failure with the module which controls the traction control. When the fault occured the ABS was automatically activated applying the brakes. I drove the car for a short distance but the traction control remained active and I lost the hill start assist and cruise control although the brakes did release.

This could be a potential major accident if it occurs at highway speeds.

I took the car to the dealership where they have diagnosed the problem as the module.

Now the bad news. Mazda cannot supply a replacement part until the end of this month at the earliest. I have suggested they airfreight a part from Thailand and I even offered to pay the airfreight but they advised me there was not one available.

I suggested they pull one from their production line but this has also fallen on deaf ears.

I believe this same part is fitted to the new Rangers as well. It may or may not be a latent fault but be prepared for a long wait if you own either vehicle and have the same problem.

Beware if you are considering buying a new BT50 or Ranger as I don't believe Mazda are supporting the BT50 with parts.

I wont even tell the whole story about the accessories I ordered for the vehicle which could not be supplied although Mazdas "BIG" release advertising they were available. I finished up going aftermarket for these parts (after waiting 8 months) and I believe I got a better product for less money.

Let the buyer beware

I don't want to know but wasn't it Toyota that had the run away vehicles in America that caused a massive recall. That nearly sunk them in the states and caused huge problems worldwide.

I have acknowledged the problems with other makes, so maybe you should start doing the same.

I will state it again. They all have their problems.

Your call.

I have RA, no issues here, thought you might like to know but if you don't thats fine too. Enjoy retirement by the way and keep us all posted.

Really don't see the relevance of vehicles failing in the mines in those conditions. Most vehicles are not designed for those conditions if they have been described correctly. I travel outback a lot and Toyota dominates the landscape, they are perhaps the conditions a vehicle's reliability should be judged upon not down in a mine where they are abused. The mines can buy whatever they want they will all break something in that enviroment. As for the Hlux being number one again, no surprise to me, people trust Toyota and they have earn't that reputation. Nobody is going to change that unless Toyota drop the ball. Somebody said they already had? Don't believe that, it's more about buyers changing, you can't please everybody all the time. For me and my third Troopy things don't change.

You'd be naive to think Toyota aren't having similar supply issues at the moment on parts. 3 weeks just to get a spare serpentine belt & the radiator hoses have been 5 weeks so far & they have no idea when they may come in. Being a long term Toyota owner I can remember when those sort of parts were on the shelf in every dealership & was the reson I didn't mind paying the premium they asked.
Discussions with one of our main sub contractors yesterday said when used for light supervisory work they're finding the Hilux's ideal but as soon as a full load is carried or towed then they've been having major issues from diffs to gearbox failures.
I'm a big Toyota fan but even I can see they've dropped the ball lately despite the sales number.
Cheers Craig..............

It's all relative Craig, personally I have 3 Toyotas in the driveway, jusy bought a 2004 Hilux for my son, a 2006 Hilux and a 200 Series. Prior to that have had 3 different cruisers. Never had an issue getting parts, certainly not serpentine belts and hoses mate, sounds like your supplier is the issue to me. The reason I buy Toyota is I believe they make the most dependable and durable product, they may have dropped the ball as you say but so many people throw the baby out with the bathwater and go off and buy another make only to find out they are far worse. If Toyota aren't up to scratch give me an alternative? As Razerback said and I think he hit the nail on the head, a lot of this is to do with buyers changing, some people get peaved off about something and go and buy another make. Read Geoff's comments thread 97854 he did just that left Toyota and bought a BT50 but in the end had so many issues he was worse off and went and bought a Toyota 79 Series Ute. Toyota have their issues but they are still better than anyone else and thats why they are outselling everybody else. It's not fancy marketing that does this, it's their hard earned reputation overtime that is the underlying reason. Now thats not to say things might change and yes Toyota could drop the ball, but reality is the mines went elsewhere because of 5 Star Safety ratings and price, not because Toyota were becoming to dear to run, thats a misnoma given the harsh conditions they were being subject to. Beauty is we are all free to go and buy what we want but I won't be jumping ship until somebody gives me a better alternative.

TerraFirma,
well I am at work now and have had a chat with mobile.

A few Rangers have arrived so we will see how they go over time.

The cruisers were becoming expensive to run due to the purchase price and the location of components starters and a/c compressors + the quality of their a/c condensers and radiators. This expense wasn't present with the old 1HZ utes. They are talking to JapanToyota direct about the reintroduction of the 6 cylinders. Whether they are emission compliant or not I don't know.

Please remember that the major customers for these vehicles are commercial operators and government departments. These vehicles have to operate in very bad conditions. For example on mine sites, properties, exploration and on very bad tracks and roads all their life.

RA.

It's just the spirit of opinion and it's about peoples choices, yes you are right Nutta, perhaps we all a little nutty..! LOL

G'day Disco,
Proven track record for me. I take absolutely NO notice of advertising.

Hmm then again maybe sometimes it does get through. "When you're on a good thing, stick to it".

Cheers
Stu

Yeah right Disco. Toyota owners are dumb brainwashed people and the intelligent buy Disco's. There's an aweful lot of dumb people out there hey?

Congrats to the Toyota advertising department. I have own 8 Toyotas in my life, unquestionably the most reliable vehicle ever. Toyotas were around when Land Rovers were overheating in their owners driveways.

Disco,
I was lucky enough to be around when the change began from Landrover to Toyota.

This came about because Landrover didn't keep up with the times and lancruiser became a better vehicle by far.

At the same time the Toyota 6000 truck came out and you can still see them around today. They were a great vehicle. I also drove isuzu trucks at that time both in 6x4 and 6x6 form. They also were great units.

They moved on and Landrover didn't until later, but all was lost and mining, cockies and exploration never went back. Only the Aussie Army kept using them.
RA.

I'm another Landrover to Landcruiser veteran, like RA. Spent a bit of time driving a Mk II L'rover in Megalong Valley, usually with only a handbrake, for stopping purposes.

When I went onto the Barkly Tablelands in '64, the station had an International Scout. What a sorry excuse for a vehicle!!! It spent most of its time in the workshop, waiting for new harmonic balancers to arrive, and be fitted.

Then in '65, we saw the first Toyota(Ever noticed how "oldies" always called Landcruisers "Toyotas", but all other Tojos by their model name?) It was a beige tray top FJ35 I'd imagine, and it could do over 60 mph!!!!! Sales were assured from that time on, and back then, they probably sold themselves.

They weren't the best vehicle, rattly doors(strikers used to wear out), poor suspension & very weak engine mounts were some of the problems I can still remember. But they did improve......

So Hilux is Number I, eh? Bit of history, but 10 years ago, doing station work, the Hilux couldn't handle in 2 years, what the HZJ75 could in 4 years.

Ah well, that's my bit of post piddling,

Bob.

Anytime you wanna sell that rig Graeme let me know, take it off your hands, reckon it would be a great buy, nothing left to go wrong and I like your setup.