Dual battery solenoid activation delay device?

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:23
ThreadID: 9940 Views:3802 Replies:10 FollowUps:9
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Does anyone know whether there's a commercially available device that delays the activation of a heavy duty solenoid in a dual battery setup? I am after a way of not having the aux. battery help start the vehicle, leaving its power just for the fridge etc. What I envisage is a device that when the ignition is turned on doesn't immediately activate the solenoid but fires it up after the vehicle has started. I thought I read somewhere ages ago about such a device but buggered if anyone seems to know about its existence. Have checked with Dick Smith and Jaycar but neither has heard of it.
I know I can do it via a manual switch but the problem is remembering to turn it on and off.
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Reply By: Member - ramp - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:36

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:36
hi moose,REDARC have a solenoid that does this, you can go direct or repco sell them they are a lot cheaper than the piranah ones. cheers rob
AnswerID: 43924

Reply By: flappan - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:39

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 09:39
Yep, my Redarc does that , and very well to.
AnswerID: 43925

Reply By: Leroy - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 10:01

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 10:01
The other guys are right. Also you can install a push button switch so that it will engage the solenoid when pressed which connects the aux and starting batts together so you can give your starting batt a boost if need be.

Leroy
AnswerID: 43930

Reply By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 10:27

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 10:27
You can get a simple timing circuit kit from DSE or Jaycar but why make it hard for yourself. Use the ground from the oil pressure switch to activate the solenoid. If the engines not running then no ground to the relay and the batts are disconnectedI may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY

Hooroo
Ray
AnswerID: 43935

Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - David - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 12:31

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 12:31
What a good suggestion - I have never thought of this - Mind you is now use a Redarc unit which switches once the main battery is over 12.5V basically (sort of) fully charged. The Redarc is very good however the oil pressure ground is a really smart idea for providing a startup delay for the solenoid.

Good one Ray.

PS: Testing PP will be a little delayed due to workload - I did adjust the maps last night and they now look heaps better. Will advise when ready.Regards
ExplorOz Team - David
--------------------------
Always working, not enough travelling ;-)
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FollowupID: 306166

Follow Up By: Moose - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:26

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:26
Thanks Mad Dog
Very tricky. I love the cheap options.
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FollowupID: 306181

Follow Up By: Willem - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 15:40

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 15:40
I have wondered why my electric fuel pump still runs after I have taken the dead switch out of the Main Battery. Then I find that by disconnecting the alternator wire to the positive terminal on the auxilliary battery, everything is dead..no power. So it would seem that if one ran the alternator to positive terminal wire through a dash mounted switch, the aux battery could be disconnected?

I am not very clued up with electrics hence the question. The engine bay of the G60 looks like a spiders nest...............

Willem

Always going somewhere
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FollowupID: 306195

Follow Up By: Moose - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 16:54

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 16:54
"if you wire it up like that Moose the two batts with be connected when the key is in the accessories position"
Hadn't thought of that. My auto elec knowledge is not very good. Now I'll have to go looking for the oil pressure switch ground. Probably bloody impossible to get at. Mine's a petrol 80 and if the spot I need is on the passenger side I'm stuffed. There's no room due to a Glind's shower system. I even have to get the oil filter off from underneath.
Maybe I just need to remember to turn the key to the off position. Another point I guess is that the solenoid will wear out that much quicker if I use the ACC position because I assume it will initially activate upon turning the key to acc, then deactivate during cranking then activate again. Your way is probably the better option.
Thanks again Mad Dog.
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FollowupID: 306209

Reply By: mac1 - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 12:39

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 12:39
If you have a landcruser the aux terminal front lhs under bonnet disconects when cranking
cheers
AnswerID: 43952

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 13:07

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 13:07
does it have +ve in the accessories positionI may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY

Hooroo
Ray
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FollowupID: 306171

Reply By: mac1 - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 13:23

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 13:23
MDM
4 treminals in little black box
Earth,
ACC (10AMP FUSED) OFF WHEN CRANKING
IG (10AMP FUSED) ON WHEN CRANKING WHEN EVER KEY IS ON
+B (20AMP FUSED) ON WHEN ALL THE TIME
Cheers Mac
AnswerID: 43958

Follow Up By: Moose - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:29

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:29
Thanks Mac
It is a Cruiser and I'll fix it when I get home. I didn't know that the ACC has no power when cranking. I have wired it up to the IG.
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FollowupID: 306182

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 16:42

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 16:42
Moose, if you wire it up like that Moose the two batts with be connected when the key is in the accessories position....not idealI may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY

Hooroo
Ray
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FollowupID: 306207

Reply By: Roachie - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:33

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:33
The system I use is with a manual switch, but also through the windscreen motor power wire. So, the solenoid will definitely cut power when the ignition is off. When I switch the ignition to "ON", I have a choice (via a switch) as to whether I want the 2nd battery to assist with cranking or not. It is useful to be able to do this on really cold mornings. However, if the fridge has been running for a while and aux batt is low, then I leave the solenoid isolated to avoid the possibility of the 2 batteries linking when number 2 is very low and I may not have the CCA to turn the 4.2T/D over. I have a voltmeter mounted on my GU's dashpod with a switch below it. Flick the switch to the right to see # 1 battery status; to the left to check # 2. I always start my truck and allow at least 1 minute before driving off every morning. During that time I can watch the status of battery #1 come up to around 14v before switching the solenoid on to charge # 2. I also use this minute to pump air up on my receiver tank (for roof rack-mounted air horns and diff lock etc). It's just a little ritual I go through (a bit like a plane's pilot) every day to assist the longevity of my motor.
Cheers
Roachie
AnswerID: 43971

Follow Up By: Mad Dog Morgan (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 16:45

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 16:45
lol...reminds me of what I went through when I was doing my pilot training...could never remember the damn ritual.I may be mad but I'm not crazy
BEAM ME UP SCOTTY

Hooroo
Ray
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FollowupID: 306208

Follow Up By: Bonz (Vic) - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 18:48

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 18:48
Mad Dog, the flying ritual is easy to remember, sky up good .....sky down bad.

The whole idea of flying is to aim at the ground and miss! consistently!If you hold your heart and focus,
you will end up holding your dream
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FollowupID: 306234

Reply By: Member - Allan - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 01:55

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 01:55
Moose, the timer was sold by the 12volt shop a few years ago here in WA. I had one in my old LC and it worked great. It delayed activating the solenoid by approx 3 minutes which allowed a bit of charge to go back into the main battery first. Before I installed it I went through a soleniod every 6 months. I was told they were installed to all Telstra 4x4's with dual batery setups. Simple and cheap but now they only want to sell the expensive electronically controlled soleniods. I'm looking for another delay timer myself but I guess I'll have to make up my own. Cheers
Allan
AnswerID: 44062

Reply By: haze - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 08:05

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 08:05
Moose. Mine does what you are looking for. Just remind me to demonstrate it!
cheers haze
AnswerID: 44068

Reply By: brownie - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 21:05

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 21:05
Moose
Here's how I've done the job on my diesel landcruiser,
1. the wire which activates the solenoid is live when the key is ON (ie normal driving)
2. install 2 relays in this wire, configure them to work in the normally closed mode using the 87a terminal. This means that when power is applied to the relay, it opens or turns off.
3. switch one of these relays from the glow plug circuit , and the other from the starter solenoid.

All of this means that the 2 batteries are isolated from each other; when the glow plug circuit is live (this is on a timer and will vary depending on the ambient temperature and the engine temperature) and also when the starter motor is in operation - or both.

This system is simple, cheap and it works ok. Using the oil pressure switch (as noted above) is another option.

Over the years I've tried various methods of wiring up an aux battery with varying degrees of success. FYI I list these below.
a) Use 1 huge size truck battery to do everything (start ute & run auxillaries) - simple, heavy, hard to mount, expensive, worked ok on petrol engined ute.
b) Hella solid state battery isolater - simple enough & provided isolation between the 2 batteries , but dropped about 0.8 v from input to output - not a problem IF your alternator has an external, adjustable voltage regulator - just crank it up a bit.
c) Cole Hersey battery switch - was already installed when I bought the ute - worked sort of ok, used lots of battery cable resulting in voltage drop, relied on my memory to operate it !!
d) ElectronicsAustralis battery isolater kit - looked impressive with flashing leds but didn't work as required on a long trip away, not sure why , I just binned it and used method e)
e) a wire link between the 2 batteries - a tempory measure which worked ok but isolation required the remembering to remove/ replace the link each night/morning.
f) solenoid between the 2 batteries - the same electrically as e) but controlled via the ignition key, furthur refined by the addition of the 2 relays as detailed above.

I hope above ramblings are of some use to you, and others.

Cheers , Brownie

AnswerID: 44149

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