GU 4.2 td Oil

Submitted: Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 13:56
ThreadID: 9947 Views:4023 Replies:3 FollowUps:8
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Hi Guys & Gals

I notice that there is a lot of discussion on oils, Is it responsible to use Delo 400 multigrade oil in my 2002 gu patrol 4.2 td?
I have read lots of the posts & most agree that it is a good oil but I do see that if you use an oil that is much better than required you may have problems later on.
I do intend to keep this one for a while yet.
Any comments?

Cheers Rowler (dave)
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Reply By: Mark - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:31

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 14:31
The main thing to do is check the oil grade required. This is different to the oil viscosity (ie 10W40). You can vary the oil viscosity based on where you drive (say 20W50 for desert or 5W/30 for Snowy mountains) but you should NOT vary the oil grade.

The Nissan manual has a chart for recommended oil viscosity for different ambient temperatures, but always specifies the same oil grade. Many people inadvertenly buy an oil based solely on the oil viscosity yet neglect to read what grade it is.

My Patrol manual specifies CF(4) grade for the 3.0TD and specifically states NOT to use CG(4). I am pretty sure from memory its the same for the 4.2TD, but check your manual to confirm.

Also, I would not use a lower grade oil, eg CD, if you intend to keep the vehicle, even though the manual says its acceptable. I would always use the highest allowable grade. (note; The SG, SH, SJ etc. grades are for petrols while CF, CG etc. are for diesels)

There are many factors to what makes up the different grades but, simplistically, a higher grade oil provides better protection, typically at higher temps. However, the additives required to achieve this can affect other properties.

Its my understanding that, amongst other things, the CG(4) diesel oil has less detergents than the CF grade to improve other properties. But this now reduces the "cleaning" ability of the oil and can lead to blocked oil galleries in extreme cases. Its also this reason why its good practise to change diesel oil every 5,000kms even though many manufacturers recommend 10,000 or longer service intervals. Its not that the oil no longer lubricates, its because the detergents in the oil are used up and can no longer keep contaminants in suspension (ever washed greasy dishes and halfway through you had to add more detergent?)

Cheers

Mark
(Chemical Engineer)
AnswerID: 43970

Follow Up By: Michael - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 15:09

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 15:09
HI Mark, the 3Litre is a 10,000 oil intervals but the 4.2 is a 5,000 interval already,
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FollowupID: 306187

Follow Up By: Rowler - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 15:38

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 15:38
Thanks Mark,
The manual states that I should use : API CC or CD & choose the correct viscosity for my operating temperatures

Following is the blurt from Caltex about their delo 400. In the second paragraph it has that it replaces "Japan" CD type oils, so does that mean that it's ok for my 4.2 td or is it too much?

Premium performance, multigrade, heavy-duty diesel engine oil specifically designed to lubricate a wide range of diesel and gasoline engines requiring API CI-4, CH-4, SL, SH, ACEA E5 or JASO DH-1 performance lubricants operating under the most severe service conditions. Specifically designed for the latest electronically controlled diesel engines experiencing high soot loading. Formulated with ISOSYN base oils and the latest additive technology to provide exceptional soot dispersancy, deposit control and wear protection.

PERFORMANCE STANDARDS
Global (ACEA, EMA, JAMA) DHD-1
API CI-4/CH-4/ CF/ SL
ACEA E3, E5
JASO DH-1
Japan Japanese CD
Caterpillar ECF-1
Cummins CES 20078, 20077, 20076, 20072, 20071
Mack EO-N Premium Plus, EO-M Plus, EO-M
Chrysler MS6395-H
Ford ESE-M2C153-E
General Motors GM 6094-M
Volvo VDS-3, VDS-2
Mercedes-Benz 228.3
MAN 3275, 271
DDC and MTU Categories 1&2

KEY PROPERTIES
SAE Grade 15W-40
Density at 15°C, kg/L 0.886
Base No., D2896, mg KOH/g 12.5
Base No., D4739, mg KOH/g 11.0
Sulfated Ash, %m 1.5
Flash Point °C 230
Pour Point °C -33
Viscosity, cSt at 40°C 116
Viscosity, cst at 100°C 15.6
Viscosity Index 134
Zinc, %m 0.15

Sorry about all the questions,

Cheers Rowler (dave)

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FollowupID: 306194

Follow Up By: Mark - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 17:21

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 17:21
Hi Rowler,

I checked my 2003 GU 3.0TD manual and it lists API CC, CD, CE, CF and CF(4) for the GU 4.2TD. It also lists JASO DH-1. I was confused that you only listed CC and CD as the CC and CD grade oils are relatively old and generally few oil manufactures make this lower grade oil.

As the Delo 400 oil meets the API CF specification and the JASO DH-1, it is fine for your engine. However, if your manual does not list the same specs as my 2003 manual, the bottom line is it does NOT meet the specs as you stated (but cannot see how there would be a difference, 2003 only had an intercooler added).

When checking the Shell website (I use Rimula X), I notice that it recommends a different oil for the 4.2TD compared to my 3.0TD (Shell Helix Diesel Super compared to Shell Rimula X for the 3.0TD). The Helix oil recommended for your vehicle also has a SH rating, meaning it can also be used in petrol engines, unlike the Rimula X which is only rated for diesel engines.

Typically, an oil that can be used in petrol engines has less detergents. Ever seen diesel oil in a car, looks like a bubble bath coming out the filler cap. The Delo 400 oil does not have a "S" rating, hence its specifically for diesel engines (best to use non "S" oil in diesels IMHO).

So, after all the double dutch about oil grades, as long as the oil grade you plan to use is listed in the manual, then all is well. Oils can meet multiple specifications, but as long as it meets what you need, it should be OK.

The main problem arises when a higher grade of oil eg CG(4) does not meet the older lower spec eg CF(4). But if the newer grade spec also meets the older grade spec, then it should be OK.

I hope this all makes sense, as the short answer to your question is simply yes, delo 400 should be fine.

Mark

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FollowupID: 306216

Follow Up By: Rowler - Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 23:33

Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 at 23:33
Thanks Mark, my manual does list API CF4 (for europe) so I guess that it's the same engine.

Thanks.... in goes the delo 400

Cheers Rowler (dave)
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FollowupID: 306288

Reply By: David N. - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 09:18

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 09:18
Yeh Mark and Rowler- basically agree with your info so far.
The problem with saying only use as specified in your manual is that oil is continually improved and specs change.
Thus if you have a 10yr old Patrol the oils available then are very different to those available today.
As an example my sons friend bought a pristine HK Holden (1968) which listed "MS" oil as the requirement, both on the the rocker cover and in the manual. He asked me "what is an MS Oil?" MS Grade oil was last manufactured aproximately 30 years ago if my memory serves me correctly.
In most cases newer oils are better in every respect- there may be rare exceptions, and there is some debate about the later spec Diesel Oils on earlier motors- but personally I believe as long as your service intervals are OK then you can't go far wrong by going for the latest spec oil. Incorrect Oil viscosity is potentially a far greater problem.
Bypass filtering is another thing to consider- It will extend the life of your oil AND motor as it will filter out much finer contamination than the full flow filter.
Cheers
AnswerID: 44072

Follow Up By: Roachie - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 10:31

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 10:31
David, Your last point reminded me of a question I've had in my mind for many years which I've always felt too stupid to ask anyone....What is this by-pass filter all about? My current GU 4.2T/D and my previous GQ diesel both have/had 2 filters. The GQ used 2 identical filters (Z115 from memory) whilst the Gu has 2 different ones; the front one having a larger thread diameter and a short piece of "pipe" extending out of the motor into the filter. About 2 years ago I shelled out big $$$ for one of those replacement oil filter systems imported from the USA by Finer Filter I think. I can't remeber the name of it but it basically takes the place of the existing filter/s and runs your oil through a remote-mounted filter housing made of alloy. The filter housing consists of 2 halves held together by 4 allen bolts. In between the sandwich of the 2 halves is a very fine mess filter which can be taken out and cleaned etc. I took it home and bolted it all on tight, turned the motor on and promptly lost about 2 litres of oil onto my driveway. It was the fault of the front filter housing having that bloody "pipe" which prevent the blank alloy cover provided with the kit, from doing up hard against the side of the block. I took it all back to auto-pro and they refunded my money. I'd still love to have the system in place, but I haven't seen those filters advertised for quite a while. Has anybody else had any experience with them?
Cheers,
Roachie
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FollowupID: 306315

Follow Up By: Rowler - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 15:15

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 15:15
David,
With bypass filtering do you keep your normal filters also?
or does the bypass filter replace the two filters on the 4.2, I am interested in looking at bypass filtering, do you have it? & can you suggest any suppliers or fitters of such systems, prefer in SA.

Cheers Rowler (dave)
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FollowupID: 306344

Follow Up By: Roachie - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 15:38

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 15:38
G'day Rowler,
With the 2 filters fitted as standard to the 4.2 Nissans (diesel) one of them is known as a "bypass" filter......this is the thing I don't understand. What does that mean?
With the aftermarket system I talked about earlier, you took off both filters. There were 2 cast alloy fittings supplied to screw on in place of the filters. The back one had 2 half inch brass barbs which were screwed into it for heavy-duty oil hose to attach and lead to and from the new remote-mounted filter. The front filter was replaced by the 2nd alloy casting and this was purely a "blank" to cover over the hole....(except in my case it would screw up hard against the block because of the half inch "pipe" protruding. I did think of just leaving the front filter in place and never touching it, but wasn't sure whether this would be such a good idea. If I could be sure the oil was filtered firstly through the back filter and then went through the front filter I wouldn't mind having done it that way, because in theory the oil going into the front filter would have always been nice and clean anyway, so it shouldn't ever get dirty.
The term by-pass filter would make me think that it only gets oil passing through it if the other one gets full and fails to filter any longer??? Buggared if I know.
Cheers,
Roachie
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FollowupID: 306347

Reply By: David N. - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 20:06

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 20:06
Dave
Suggest you look at Filter Technology
And Frantz Filters

Yes, you do keep your old full flow filters- but you can change them much less often.
Bypass filtering uses a small volume of oil bled off from a convenient point (often the oil pressure sender via a Tee Piece) which then is filtered through a deep filtration media - literally toilet paper for the Frantz filters!
Thus you get filtration of particles down to a fraction of the size caught by normal "Full Flow filters.
The benefits include longer oil life, longer engine life, and long term cost savings as you keep the filters forever and transfer them from car to car.(Saving money as you use less oil.)
I have been using them for many years (since about 1970 in fact!) on a number of vehicles with exceptional results. One of my filters has been on five different cars! They can also be used on DIESEL FUEL to great effect (when you consider the fine tolerances in your injection pump and injectors this is not surprising!)

Finally also if you do a search you'll find heaps more info.
Cheers
AnswerID: 44143

Follow Up By: David N. - Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 20:12

Friday, Jan 23, 2004 at 20:12
P.S. On the later Nissans with no vacuum pump on the back of the alternator, you can use the pick up point on the side of the block- which WAS used for the alternator vacuum pump.This is now just blanked off with a screw in plug.
As I said do a search in exploroz.
Cheers
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FollowupID: 306379

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