On your Tele ~ tonight!!

G'day Phil. B ~ Toyocrusa and River Swaggie

I trust you get to see the full three parts of this series, I know I have been labled as a Mining Industry basher by other folk on this and other web sites, but I am so bloody glad the media is looking at how this industry operates and how it is operating today.


If you have time take a birds eye view of the future plans for the Ophthalmia Range and the region around Newman, by Google Earth search and do a fly over from about 8 to 10 k's up using the Great Northern Highway, Newman to Roy Hill ~ Roy Hill to Munjina Roadhouse roads as a boundary, I know its a massive tract of land to view and sadly Google Earth is years behind in their imagery, but it will give you some idea of what the general public know next to nothing about, as I say imagery is out of sync with what is real time mining.

Safe Travels :

G'day Arsenal Phill


Like wise regarding the watchability of SBS or any of the television channels for that matter.


I knew of the making of the documentary quite some time ago but I had no idea of time slots for the shows apart from this first episode tonight. I guess it will require some sbs.com searching.


Safe travels and all the very best for the new year.

The second episode is on next Sunday night at 8.30pm. I missed it last night (I'm writing on Monday) but I notice that Part 1 is repeated on SBS2 on Thursday at 8.30pm for those of us who missed it.

Min

G'day Min

Thank you for the information you posted, I guess there is a reason why there are so many SBS channels, it can get a little annoying at times and difficult to focus on one channel ~ but it is an eye opening series and worthy of a second look.

Safe travels :

Not a bad channel SBS,Has some interesting shows with bugger all adds.
Watched the show last night on mining having worked in that industy for 25 yrs.Quiet a good twist about the Chinese.

G'day Grundle (WA)

It is almost as if history is being repeated ~ interesting to see the aerial views of the gold diggings from 150 years ago, not much rehabilitation of a mine lease back then either !!

Safe travels :

Hi Joe,Yes its a bit better now days but its still a very distructive beast.We are leaving something that can never be put back as it was,we can only give it a face lift.Unfortunately its mostly controlled by a few players who have become extremly powerful.We may buy shares in them and think we have a say but realy we dont.Building a town bring with it its own problems.Some good some bad.I spent the last 21 yrs i worked in mining at one mine.Being a fly in and out person on equal time,I think it was better as it gave me a lot more time with my family and i still enjoyed my job when i was on site.It also enabled me to retire alot sooner than i would have.I would be extremly hipicritical to say mining should be banned,but that dos'nt mean i agree with it all.

Next episode is next Sunday at 8.30pm and part 3 the week later at the same time. Thought it was Jack thompson narrating but it was Colin Friels. Lots of interesting history which would suit the audience on this forum. Life keeps going in cycles with managers paying one group of workers less leading to riots in Kalgoorlie in 1934.Think 457 visas now. Or the speculator who bought Poseidon shares for peanuts but got greedy ( his words)and didn't sell out in time before the crash.
And furthermore to Kalgoorlie don't make the mistake of confusing Collins and Hay streets....W

G'day mazcan


Thanks for the follow up and the interest in what can be a touchy subject, I stated some time ago about the seemingly uncontrolled pace the resource industry in the Pilbara appears to be going.



I say this as a long term resident of a town in the Pilbara, yes the industry built the town for its resident workforce and then sold/gave it away because the industry at the time was in decline and town ownership and management was not high on their agenda.



There are many underlying facets to the touchiness of the subject of "present day" mining that can not be discussed on this or any other web site forum without making enemies or being moderated simply because so many people are actually involved in earning a living from the resource industry.


This too ~ the present day workforce a majority of Fly in - Fly out people who are at best disconnected from the place where they have to work and the place where their family is, so they possibly don't care about the mountains, hills and waterholes disappearing off the face of the earth whilst they are earning their very good living.


I honestly hope anyone who views the television series and understands the essence of what is being said about big business, compliant governments and communities will understand that it really is a "Dirty Business" and that there is so much to lose and its not solely theirs to lose.


Safe travels :

Hi all,
Joe you've hit the nail on the head re
'the seemingly uncontrolled pace the resource industry in the Pilbara'.

In late Sept 2010 I had the chance to check out Hickman Crater. if I didn't have OziExplorer I would never have found it. there were new tracks everywhere and drilling rigs were being positioned the day we were there.
Sitting on the lip of Hickman we watched as the heavy equipment was set up on drill pads. if Hickman doesn't get reserve status etc its going to be sent to China from the looks of things.
There's that much iron ore out there do they have to rip up icons such as Hickman.

cheers

G'day Phill B


Phill, I am wrapped that you had the chance to travel into Hickman Crater and hopefully the experience will be a lasting one for you.


It certainly makes you think when it comes to what the potential for obliteration of such a magnificent structure can be in the current "Pigs at the trough" attitude to the Pilbara.


I was very lucky to be the fifth person to see the Crater outside of Dr Hickman and his associate on their initial confirmation of the Crater trip. I can honestly say it was a very special feeling indeed ~ knowing it was new to modern humanity, with no known mythology to past or present Pilbara "People of the land" and their ties to the region have been scientifically proven as far back as 26300 years.


I actually asked Dr Hickman if he had any objections regarding the placement of the visitor book/post, thats how incredibly special the place was to me ~ but very sadly as you state the drill rig pads are less than 400 metres from the southwest rim of the crater , I don't think the shareholders of mining company who intend mining the area care about the existence of the Crater as long as their dividends are high.


I am not too sure on the status of "Hickman Crater" in todays mining climate and I for one surely hope it is granted Geo-heritage listing.


Thanks for your interest and story.

Safe travels :

you seem to only focus on one bulk comodity export primary industry sector and say nothing about other far more destructive bulk comodaty export primary industrys which have also been subject to boom and bust

The wheat industry is a classic example you mention nothing of

pretty much the whole of the south west fromKalbarri to esperance clear felled, an entire ecosystem gone, the resulting land salinisation is destrying more land and is on going as is the posoning off the majority of the waterways which is also ongoing
not to mention the ghost towns, the closed busnisses, the struggle to maintain services amidst dwindling populations

- it sort of puts any iron ore mining into perspective

and yet I dont hear people mention it?

some people might say we need to eat. but thats only partly true, we also need base metals

hardly any of outr wheat is used domestically compared to what is exported. I have a large wheat export facility running 24 hours only a few km from my place

Hi Get outmore,

This thread is about the three part SBS show on mining.

Wheat etc isn't part of this discussion hence not mentioned. Why not start up a separate thread?

cheers

If it was just about the 3 part tv show fine , but Joe F has chosen as usual to push his anti mining barrow without giving any balance to his oposition to bulk export primary produce

coments such as look at google earth

well ok lets do that

this google earth pic includes the mining areas of the Goldfields and the Pibara

while I cant see a mine I can see a massive area totally clearfelled
- an entire ecosystem wiped out

G'day Get outmore.


As Phill B ~ rightly says the thread is about a current topic being screened on SBS televison for mass consumption, you like every one else makes a choice to view or not to view the program(s) all I have tried to do, is let you know it was being televised.


You like all the folk who have made or are likley to make a comment regarding the initial thead also make that choice.


I know that you feel very strongly about the agricultural industry and have in the past as you have now, decided to draw parallels between agricultural practices and todays mining practices, I for one can't see the parallels ~ maybe because I happen to live in the Pilbara and in an area that just happens to be all iron ore and it is being mined at a frenetic rate, mining is an UNSUSTAINABLE practice the land being mined does not grow back, not one single mountain or hill has grown back, its gone for ever, there just happens to be 379571 square Kilometres of the East Pilbara and the best part of that is IRON ORE.


I wonder what connection you have to the mining industry Mr GOM.


I happen to hold shares in the company once known as the Big Australian, so I guess I have a voice !!!!



Non the less I appreciate every persons point of view on this subject and please don't forget ~ I did not produce the "Dirty Business" television series, I'm just stoked that its on SBS ~ because it would not have seen the light of day on channel TEN, but am I making a parallel ?


Safe travels :

That's old news GOM.
It was probably too late to save most of that area even before you and I were were born.

The area that Joe is mentioning is not too late to save, that is the difference.

cheers

G'day equinox


Alan, you have raised a very true point, when colonization first commenced in WA ~ food and shelter were the first requirements in the Swan Colony, yes it all began long before any of us were born.


The colonials were busy making Australia back then, I think its rather different in regards to the export of Australia today.


Modern mining in the Pilbara commenced in the 1950's and Iron Ore mining commenced in the late 1960's and so very much has disappeared off the face of the Pilbara since then.


There are children born today that will never see parts of the Ophthalmia Range the Chichester Range, or possibly the Hamersley Ranges by their 30th birthday ~ if mining continues at todays pace.


I have no intentions trying to save the Pilbara, I just feel very strongly about how much of this ancient land is being devoured because this just happens to be where I live ~ the Pilbara.


Safe travels:

Joe - unssure how you dont see the parallel unless you are choosing not to. if i was to describe vast areas of land being decimated for a bulk export comodity to be shipped overseas via a network of railways - you would say iron ore - except im talking about wheat
and Equinox - yesterdays news!!!!!!! dream on as i speak more land is being claimed by dry land salinity and the Sw rivers run more saline and its ecosystem is pushed further to the brink... its happening NOW

if mining was causing that level of destruction alone there would be hell to pay

try and find out why wellington dam is no longer used as a water source and its not just our state. i grew up in a wheatbelt town in SA and we relyed heavily on the todd resivoir ------ its now dead and unusaable

dont fool your self the biggest issue to the Wa environment is huge and its now and its NOT iron ore

G'day get outmore


Thank you for this particular follow up, I fully understand and honestly appreciate the magnitude of what the Agricultural industry foot print has become, not just here in the West, but right across the face of the globe.


The Agricultural industry in all of its guises is feeding humanity with the product(s) they produce the mining industry is not feeding anyone with the actual product(s) they produce.


I know its a simplistic way of looking at it, but the modernization growth in China is being fed by the import of iron ore from Australia, China's economical boom cycle is reducing their arable land areas and actively forcing people into newly developed urban settlements ~ this is an undisputable fact.


The huge mining operations in Mongolia have been an financial "gold mine" for the owner operators (Rio Tinto) these mines have bought untold wealth not only for Rio but also the Chinese Govenment, but it appears the local people have been stitched up.


I could go on about the massive rise in world air and terrestrial pollution directly linked to the rise of China ~ I could also go on about the farming land being bought up in Australia by "foreign investors" because they are building over their very own farming lands.


I'd love to keep going on this subject, but the scrub country bordering Newman has been decimated by fire in the last 48 hours and I want to get out-more and have a look seeing, the Great Northern Highway has been reopened.


It has been reported the fire was started by a lightening strike ~ the odd thing about that is the thunder/lightening came some 4 hours after the first sign of smoke?


Safe travels :

to say mining doesnt feed people is a bit simplistic

have a look from your desk and see how much of what you use has been mined or quarried

the only thing in your 4x4 that wasnt mined is the air in the tyres as an example

there are many things that contribute to the excessive degradation of the planet Mining and agriculture are but symptoms of rampant expansion, consumerism and population growth.
I dispair as to what will happen - but like most people im part of the problem not the solution

I lived 10 years in kalgoorlie and grew up in the south australian wheatbelt

i see the gold industry as being vastly differnt to the iron ore industry

the main issue is bulk export comoditys wheather it be oild and gas, iron ore, or cereal farming

G'day Duncan W


I also thought the first episode was interesting, it is quite amazing to see how the resource industry has fluctuated from its inception to what we see today, yet nothing seems to have changed for the better.


I guess like anyone who owns shares in any organization, we run the risk of financial failure, but in many cases people can and do prosper ~ you only need to look back to hey days of the "dot com" era to see how a modern boom and bust cycle works.


It will be interesting to learn (through the series) as to how manipulative the "top end" of town can be and as to how much power the industry has at the board room level.


Thank you for your interest and the follow up.

Safe travels :

lots of things have changed for the better, but obviously there not focussed on.

as an example years ago Kalgoorlie used to be covered with roasters from each individual mine poluting the air of the town and winds would cover every thing with toxic tailings. no rehab was done

these days there is one roaster well out of town which is closely monitered

the tailing dumps have all gone all reprocessed and consolidated and rehabbed so tailings dust storms are a thing of the past

legacy shafts are filled in and old pits rehabbed . Ive been through many old minesites that become havens for wildlife with waterfowl living in the pits waters, bats in old declines, and eagles that perch above the rehabbed waste dumps getting a birds eye view

G'day get outmore


Well my old sparring mate, you have nailed the lid shut on this debate with your one line comment in follow up 13 of 13.


"I see the gold mining industry as being vastly different to the iron ore industry"


If you actually concede that the two industries as being "vastly different" and you say you have first hand knowledge of living in a gold mining town/region, then why are you pontificating on the iron ore industry, which you appear to know little about?


Safe travels :

ive worked in the pilbara as well........... currently in the kimberly

the difference is gold is precious metal extraction and iron ore is bulk export comodity

ive spent time working over much of Wa and grew up in the south Australian wheatbelt so I have had a pretty good look at what gos on

G'day get outmore


"I've worked in the Pilbara as well ........ currently in the kimberly"


For all I know you might just be painting the white lines on the highway!!


I also worked in the gold fields at the New Celebration mine and the Jubilee gold mine ~ but I know jack shit about how either of those operations worked in any respect, I just fixed the broken down crap machines they used in the quarry process.


You may have spent time in WA and had a pretty good look at what goes on?


Next chance you get to come to the Pilbara from the Kimberley ~ you might wan't to open both eyes!!


If you were an ExplorOz member I would happily invite you to member message me so I could continue the debate line you have chosen to take things to, but I am between that proverbial hard place and an FBR ~ on this open forum and I do not intend being moderated.




Safe travels :