New Patrol and the petrol vs diesel debate

Submitted: Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 08:03
ThreadID: 99995 Views:3348 Replies:15 FollowUps:24
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Just watched the new add from Nissan Australia regarding the new Patrol V8 petrol.

It's amazing the hype advertising companies come up with and the reasoning why you should by a petrol over a diesel.......

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the intended market in the middle east only wanting a petrol version.....

So if Nissan follows there own hype is this the end to a Nissan diesel engined vehicle?

I'm sure Robin will love it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_125495&feature=iv&src_vid=1MIoC3ehvKw&v=wQxHfmpiJjQ
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Reply By: Kris and Kev - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 08:31

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 08:31
Amazing that the price quoted for the petrol only version is dearer then what you can get a new diesel Landcruiser now for? Kevin
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Reply By: Nickywoop - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 09:08

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 09:08
I guess now that all the trucks, earth moving mining gear etc. will convert to petrol motors as soon as they view that bit of advertising?

Nick
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:52

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 10:52
NAh , lots of the mining companies are going into Great Wall and Mahindra's , they have finally figured out that Tojo&Nissan are not the be all and end all ,,
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:24

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:24
And there are a lot who aren't.

Vehicle brand depends on what it is getting used for and how quick it gets disposed of.

And it comes down to how little they buy them for, thats if they buy them at all...... they may be free!
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:09

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:09
olcoolone is right, can you get a dual cab 4wd Ranger for under $18000. Well I know one mine that has.

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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 21:03

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 21:03
What it really comes down to is that both Toyjo + Nissan have lost the plot of what our relatively small market requires in a 4x4 at a 'reasonable' price,,,, and that said ,, with a population of 23million we are only the equivalent of a pimple on the worlds bum ,, tits time we the Australian consumer spoke with our $$$$ to give the big 2 what they deserve , that being , ,,,,,, nothing $$$$$$$$, until they play the game to OUR requirements just like the other smaller [ in AUS market share] manufactures are doing !!
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 23:10

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 23:10
It's not Toyota and Nissan driving unaffordable 4x4's...... safety bodies that campaign the governments for this and that have a huge voice when it comes to legislation.

Look at Victoria with their legislation on "vehicle stability control" that forced Nissan to seek exemption for 12 months on their Patrols.

But by far the biggest driving force is the consumer, why build a 4x4 that only suits a very very small market.

As for cheap..... people have short memories, in 1992 the new price of a
Hilux 4x4 2.8lt non turbo SR5 ......... $33,800
Hilux 4x4 2.8lt non turbo DX ......... $30,300
Landcruiser Troopy non turbo diesel ......... $39,200
Landcruiser 80 non turbo diesel GXL ......... $50,700
Landcruiser 80 series turbo diesel GXL ......... $54,500
Average medium house price in Melbourne ......... $125,000
Average wage ......... $504 per week

..... 2012
Hilux 4x4 D4D turbo SR5 ......... $50,900
Hilux 4x4 D4D turbo SR ......... $42,400
Landcruiser Troopy turbo diesel ......... $65,700
Landcruiser 200 turbo diesel GXL ......... $88,700
Average medium house price in Melbourne ......... $465,000
Average wage ......... $1035 per week

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Reply By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:17

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:17
"Beyond belief" is correct - beyond belief that whoever wrote the hyperbolic script and whoever approved it thinks they will get away with it. Talking about relative efficiency in the context of a petrol V diesel debate is simply making a rod for your own back. But at least they didn't touch the torque question, lol. They're either happy to be laughing stocks or perhaps they know and just want to get tongues wagging - the old 'any publicity' theory?


If you want to try and swing the market to petrol you might talk about initial up-front and service costs (especially the wallet shock encountered when it's time to replace your CRD injectors), you might try the tack of "bad fuel" prevention and replacement costs for diesels, the fact that city petrol prices are generally a handful of cents below that smelly diesel stuff, or that petrol engine oil is a fair bit cheaper. These are the things which might convince me to stay with petrol when the Jack is ready to go to a new owner.

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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:31

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:31
Ahh but then Bazooka they would have to poo poo their other vehicles, the ones that will actually sell in volume unlike a petrol half assed convert that has been converted on the cheap. - Take a look to see if you could reach over to the hand brake LOL.

Mind you when they drop the diesel in the pathfinder in a few months their arguemtn may get more frequently thrown out tot he public.
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Reply By: Geoff in SA - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:32

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 12:32
what a truly great add.

Power and torque to burn........

Geez my truly modern 7.3 lit tug gets as good economy on a trip when its empty.
And when I tow the van it goes way up to between 19 and 20 lits per 100kms.

Bet the new patrol would need a second trailer just for the fuel
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 13:38

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 13:38
I guess if the manufacturer has only a petrol option to offer they have only one option when it gets to what they promote as the best.

Maybe Nissan don't have what they consider a suitable diesel engine to offer as an alternative at the moment and the world wide market, not just Australia, favours petrol.

Personally I think both the new Nissan and Toyota's 200 are catering more to the US and maybe the middle east markets.

I wonder how long it will be before Toyota come up with a larger capacity petrol V8???

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Axle - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 14:35

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 14:35
Pop they have a new larger capacity V8 petrol in the 200s as from last year,5.7L...all alloy...Evidentley a very nice motor, and no worse on fuel than the previous 4.7, which is pretty good all things considered.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 16:06

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 16:06
They've been running the 5.7 V8 in the USA for several years now
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 23:13

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 23:13
4.6Lt in the 2012 update 200 series.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 21:36

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 21:36
in the US they have a 5.7, here it is basically the same engine thats been in the 100
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 14:31

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 14:31
Just wait until they release a diesel version.
There will be new ads extolling the benefits of a diesel engine over petrol.
Their advertising agency is probably already formulating ideas.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: passionfruit - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 15:35

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 15:35
They also said their 3LT engine was the way foward..........
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Reply By: Kris and Kev - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:07

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:07
I read somewhere with Opal fuel being the only petrol at some places this could cause problems with these motors? I am not sure why, I am not that knowledgeable about these things. Could this sound correct to these who are in the know? Kevin
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:28

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:28
Yes this V8 requires 95RON fuel so opal won't be an option Kevin.

I read a while ago that the V8 isn't replacing the diesel, they will both be sold, so no reason for Nissan fans to panic.
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Follow Up By: Alloy c/t - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 21:09

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 21:09
Opal fuel still has the same RON , just has the aromatics removed to stop the "high" when the poor buggers sniff ,,,,,,,
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 22:05

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 22:05
Really? According to the opal website the fuel is 91 RON only.
"Vehicles that shouldn't use Opal fuel are those that require a premium unleaded fuel with an octane rating of 95 or higher."
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 23:28

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 23:28
To get non opal fuel at Uluru, I had to go inside and ask for the key to the pump and sign for it before I could fill up. The opal was the same RON as normal unleaded but my car needed premium.
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:22

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 18:22
I don't think its even worth debating! Nissan lost the plot when Renault bought them 15 years ago. I would buy a new diesel LandCruiser if or when I make that decision to replace my ageing Patrol. "Oh what a good feeling that might just be" !!
Michael.


Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

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Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 19:28

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 19:28
Nissan's got no idea Bring back the reliable 4.2 turbo diesel, Thats the best motor they've put out.

Cheers Wilko
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:13

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:13
Wilko,
young bloke over the road freighted one in from Darwin. 2006 4.2td, all coil ute with hugh K's. Wait for it, 65000 and that is not a typo error. It is immaculate.

RA.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:24

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:24
Wouldn't that be more than they were brand new??????
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:40

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:40
That is 65000 kilometres not dollars. I don't know what he paid for it.
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Follow Up By: NTVRX - Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:23

Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:23
Can only tow 2500kg!!!
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Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:54

Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:54
NTVRX

You are so right there
i was caught out buy that as well.
Bought one brand new and was told (salesman denied it ) was 3500kg towing.
Nissan then bought out the new common rail model.
Difference Motor only
and upgraded the towing to 3200Kgs
Did they know why????

Geoff
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Reply By: Rangiephil - Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:39

Tuesday, Jan 15, 2013 at 20:39
Nissan see the main market for the new Patrola s the Middle east and Saudi Arabia in particular.

When I lived there diesel cars and 4x4 were illegal.

Petrol cost when I googled is 0.16 euros vs Australia at 1.12 euros. when I lved ther eback in 1985 petrol was AFAIR 22 cents a litre and looks like it hasn't changed.

on main roads in Saudi there are fuel stations every 100Km and similar in UAEetc etc.
Regards Philip A.
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:31

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 10:31
I'm a bit late joining this post after just coming back from some heavy days in the bush but all I can say is that they must have read my post on why I recently brought a petrol GU over a diesel 200 series (actually I know they did but thats another story).

I have already decided that the new Patrol is not for me - and after the last few days of slogging thru endless overgrown and debris littered tracks - I won't be changing my mind soon.

I would question the accuracy of the comparison - 14.5lt per 100k is better than my current 4800 GU which is 16.4 however the diesel 200 series is a fair comparison car and it is only 10.5lt per 100k. GU

Its a pity some of the above replies are short on realism because the general thrust of the arguement is valid , but some of Nissans figures need a little more explaining and as real data becomes available a better comparison can be attempted.

The total life cycle cost and experience of my first petrol GU has shown the petrol can indeed be a better overall choice.

I would hope that more people would do there research before buying any type of vehicle and not assume that diesel today means what it once did.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:27

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 11:27
I guess that depends on what you took as the general thrust of the argument Robin. Efficiency is not something I associate with hulking 4WD petrol vehicles like the Patrol, and producing X million kilowatts of power is rather less relevant than the revs/power band and more importantly, the torque, in most 4WD and towing situations.


I'm interested in your comment about diesel today not meaning what it once did, primarily because within the next couple of years I'll be looking for another vehicle. Can you elaborate a bit please? I think it may be along the lines that with new electronic aids such as traction controls etc some of the diesel's off-road advantages are not as pronounced now as they once were and that the maintenance/repair costs of CRD's is now significantly higher than for the normally aspirated diesel that I used to own. I'll see if I can find your thread and have another read, I guess the reasons are there?


Would be worth a thread of its own to discuss the pros and cons of modern petrol and diesel 4WDs in various situations (daily drive, towing, off-road).
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 14:19

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 14:19
Whoops - be in bush to long, either that or it was to hot over last 1/2 hour as I put my road wheels back on - I replied as reply 13 not as a follow up
Robin Miller

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Reply By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 13:04

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 13:04
Hi Bazooka

You made me re-read my previous post (81503) and I note that what I said then is what I say now - that first of all the vehicle has to fit its intended use and so the best choice for me may not be the best for someone else.

From the overall perspective what is changing are two priniciple factors.

1/ Petrol and Diesel engine are becoming more alike and since the advent of
direct petrol injection the fundamental efficentcy difference between then is now reduced from about a 1/3rd to less than 25%.

2/ Both types of cars are becoming more difficult to repair (in the bush) and to legally modify. Hence you now need to put more weight on support aspects.

I carry spare fuel pump, injector, Plug - why ? because they cost me $150 total
and I can fit them in the bush, try that on my mates new top of the range Navara or
another friends Ford ranger (Mazda).

But then who cares if one just drives within phone range of a tow truck and its on a total
warranty plan !
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 23:23

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 23:23
G'day Robin,
There is one other factor that should be programmed into the calculations, and that is fuel efficiency as it applies to conserving dwindling oil supplies. VW make a TDV6 diesel that pulls 650nm torque, gets 8.5 litres / 100 kms lugging a heavy Touareg, will do 200 kph and has a service interval of 15k kms or 12 months. Full marks to them for designing a car that helps preserve oil supplies. That makes 16 litres / 100 kms and lower service intervals seem somewhat wasteful even if the dollar value to the owner is equivalent or there abouts. A world full of Patrols and Landcruisers would chew through our oil supply twice as quick as a world full of Euro diesels. And don't get me started on 5000 km service intervals.
I think it is important anyway :-)
Cheers,
Mike
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Reply By: Geoff H18 - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 15:22

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 15:22
It a shame how the motor companies dictate.Why don't they put the bigger motor from the pathie in the new patrol
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Follow Up By: Graeme - Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 16:45

Wednesday, Jan 16, 2013 at 16:45
I suppose Nissan will not do that as it would take away the reason for somebody to purchase their thirsty land tank which has recently hit the market.
In one fell swoop it would give everybody the reason to purchase a live axle 4x4 with a new 6cyl diesel not related to the 3.0l grenade and would provide some competition to the LC200.
For me I sold my Patrol and bought a Land Rover Disco 4 and has been brilliant in 9 months and 36,000km around Oz.
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Reply By: NTVRX - Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:19

Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:19
Popped into Werribee Nissan yesterday and looked at two new Patrols. 1. ST-L bottom of the specs....$90,000 NO SAT NAV & numerous "other" extras a consumer would appreciate in a vehicle that expensive. 2. TI. Leather & sunroof standard $100,000......nice vehicle. 3. TI-L top of the range $112,000 still 30 grand less than Sahara!!!!
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Follow Up By: Geoff in SA - Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:56

Thursday, Jan 17, 2013 at 12:56
Hi

I see in the Nissan Blurb on the new 13 models they will tow 3500Kgs
But only allowed 140kgs towball weight.
I wonder how you get that on a 3 ton van????????
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