Fuel Prices!

Submitted: Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:34
ThreadID: 100325 Views:2766 Replies:16 FollowUps:26
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Theres No Doubt about it!, Diesel is becoming the most expensive fuel, to run on Whatever the Vehicle!......Its a real mathematical equation to work out where you stand kms travelled, what you payed,how long you keep it, what tax benefit,sevice cost, parts availability, depreciation, reliability, back up service, what your neghbours think,and their aunts and uncles ...lol...... But around our area Pedo has been consistinley cheaper than diesel for a few months now and by a fair margin

Toyo are selling landcruiser V8 petrols in evidentley enough numbers to keep the sales going, so do they keep gazing into the crystal ball and know more than we know???


Cheers Axle
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Reply By: Member - Mark (Tamworth NSW) - Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:49

Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:49
Depends where you live to some extent on petrol V diesel
I find in rural NSW diesel has been dearer for years by I guess on average a few cents/L. If you do any type of kms, diesel is definitely the better option in rural NSW.

In Sydney or Brisy diesel is significantly more expensive due to discounting of Petrol which happens in the city but not in the bush, where as diesel is rarely discounted anywhere.

Mark
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Follow Up By: Michaeljp - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:02

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:02
Hey Mark , i dont know where you buy your diesel in Sydney but i see it every day a few cents cheaper than petrol. Diesel $1.42, petrol 95oct $1.45+. I dont even look at or talk about E10.
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 17:52

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 17:52
hey Michael, where d'you get diesel for 142 in Sydney? I cover most of the metro area and haven't seen it at that price. Cheapest has been 148.9 for the past couple of years from memory.
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Follow Up By: Michaeljp - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 14:45

Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 14:45
Gday Steve,
Im at Rooty hill and most servos around here, Minchinbury, the druitt St marys all sell it for today around the $1.43 and that is the usual price around here. Ive noticed most 7-11 stores are the cheapest.
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Reply By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:52

Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:52
Are you looking for a conspiracy somewhere Axle? When something looks like a conspiracy it is normally a stuff up anyway.
With regard to Toyota, and Nissan as well now, they know that their large cars will mostly be used as city cars and many will be bought by snobs who think the smell of diesel and the sound of a diesel is out of place in their suburb.
Cheers,
Kevin
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Axle - Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 23:12

Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 23:12
Well maybe Kevin, Not sure you have the snob thing right though!


Cheers Axle
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Follow Up By: Member - Kevin S (QLD) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 08:49

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 08:49
I could introduce you to some Axle. But there are many reasons that people purchasing a motor vehicle favour petrol. Just check the ratio of diesel pumps to petrol at most city service stations and you will see that producers of petrol driven vehicles are selling into a huge consumer base. It would be a mistake to believe that the views expressed on this forum on this subject, or many other subjects, are those held by the broader community.
Cheers,
Kevin
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Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 11:04

Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 11:04
I wouldn't put too much weight on the Toyota petrol V8 thing Axle, over 94% of Landcruisers sold in Australia are Diesel despite its $5000 permium. But it is worth putting the petrol in the sales mix here, because the engines are, or were used my other Toyota / Lexus vehicles sold here, so support issues are minimal for the addtiional 6% of sales.

In the US there are no Diesels, in Europe there are no Petrols. And Toyota elected not to sell the 5.7l petrol in Australia despite the Patrol coming out wih a big petrol V8. So what does all that that tell us about Toyota's - that they know how to milk the market.
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Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:55

Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 21:55
It’s a not-so bad – Hey! it’s a nice-a place.
In 2008 I did my first loop around Aussie
Diesel in Perth was a $1.60 and in the middle of the NT and at the tip of Cape York $2.25.
Hey! whats-a wrong with you.
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Reply By: Crackles - Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 23:28

Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 23:28
Having driven diesels for 26 years I picked the perfect time to swap to a petrol/gas 4by. At 65 cents a litre with a supermarket docket it didn't take long to break even verses the extra installation cost & servicing. I suppose I can thank Toyota for not building a diesel FJ :-)
Cheers Craig.............
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 01:32

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 01:32
In a few years there might not be any petrol, but there will be some sort of bio diesel made from algae probably. The ideal place to make it will be up the coast of Western Australia, plenty of sunshine. It will make them the new oil shieks I reckon. :-)
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Follow Up By: SDG - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 21:52

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 21:52
And yet in a car yard the other day, I saw a diesel fourby, with "Do not use bio diesel" on the fuel lid
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Reply By: Smouch - Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 23:33

Saturday, Feb 02, 2013 at 23:33
The gap is definatley narrowing. At times I wonder if I made the right decission. Here in Cairns the difference is at least 10cents p/l at best. I do low K's locally but do the odd long trip not towing anything . Take into account the generally more expensive oil and servicing. I'm still in front but only just.

With the advancement in petrol engine technology- Direct injection, VVT on both exhaust and inlet, attention to the redcution in internal drag, combination of turbo and supercharging. The future of diesel power will be intresting to watch.

There is a perception diesel power is dirty. Particularly in the US. To there credit and about time, some of the latest stuff out of there has made big gains in fuel economy.

Maybe Toyota do know somthing we don't. They are the biggest car manufactuer in the world.
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Reply By: Member - Joe n Mel n kids (FNQ - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 01:14

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 01:14
not wrong there .......... to the point i have started looking at Pedrols but i keep going back to diesel, the water crossings worry me with petrols as does the availability out bush, you can fairly well bank on Diesel being available anyware there are people ...
But yes, a diesel cost more to fix and re-build, it weighs more, costs more to service, on average it is louder noise wise ...
I think as you do, the next few years will be interesting to see what fuel wins the race, i will assume petrol is far more efficient as racing cars dont use diesel and being efficiant is the big thing these days, petrol is also lighter to carry so technically diesel will always use more per klm/ltr due to the weight alone ....
Toyo are very switched on people so will be interesting to see what path they take, might be uranium yet, safer, cheaper, lighter and far more efficiant hahha
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Follow Up By: Member - Toyocrusa (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 09:42

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 09:42
Hi Joe. Diesel is being used in the Le Man race cars now as this extract tells you. The end result will be even more efficient diesel engines for the road as time goes by. Cheers,Bob.
"This gave Audi a chance to reclaim the lead after a series of safety car inspired pit stops and the Germans never really gave an inch from there. But before that result became obvious, Audi’s expertise were well and truly on the line, as it had entered a pair of unnaturally quiet diesel-hybrid R18 e-tron quattros for the first time. The 3.7-litre V6 TDI diesel hybrid was Audi’s answer to the TS030s and the German’s insistence that it can bring about hybrid technology to its diesel powertrain in a race as gruelling as Le Mans. Having married diesel and electric power, it had the benefit of huge torque from both powertrains."

http://www.caradvice.com.au/177262/24-hours-of-le-mans-2012-experience/
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Reply By: mfewster - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 08:58

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 08:58
I have never understood diesel pricing in Australia. Diesel ought to be cheaper to make than petrol, it is cracked off at a lower level in the refining process. In most overseas countries, diesel is cheaper at the pump than petrol.
I live in Adelaide. When we do a trip, i find I can buy diesel cheaper about 100km out of Adelaide than I can buy it in Adelaide. After that, diesel prices start to rise again with distance. Petrol prices on the other hand start rising and keep rising the further I get from Adelaide until I start approaching the next capital l city.
Actually I think I do understand the pricing can only conclude that there is a bigger markup on diesel in the city than petrol for the sellers (either the makers or the service station or both)
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Follow Up By: Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:13

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:13
Hullo mfewster

It is the 18c/l additional road levy for heavy vehicles that bumps the price of diesel up. It replaced the difficult to implement load/distance tax for heavy vehicles (log books) on the basis that fuel consuption was a good surrogate for load and that the tax was difficult to avoid. In addition, at that time it was brought in, few light vehicles were diesel powered.

Btw, this levy is based on the fact that road damage does not increase in direct proportion to axle load; rather it increases as to the 4th power. That is, a doubling of the axle load results in ~256 times more damage.

It would not be too difficult to implement a 2 tier system, with only heavy vehicles paying the additional tax. For example, in Europe there is a multiple price level scheme for diesel, depending on its use.

I have often wondered why the motoring organisations have not taken this up, given that times have changed, with more and more light vehicles now diesels.

So with the election having been called now might be the time to make this a political issue. Maybe ask your local member what he/she intends to do about it?

Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 11:52

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 11:52
I think you are partly right however it doesn't explain why diesel prices drop as we leave Adelaide, then start to go up again after we are well out of city range. Example. On the Western highway heading east at Xmas it is around 152c per litre in Adelaide and about 143c 150km east, When I first started using diesel, over 20 years ago in a Peugot 504. before the changes in the heavy vehicle tax system, diesel was also dearer in Oz compared to petrol unlike any other country I know.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:03

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:03
I think it is cheaper wherever long haul trucks find it convenient and easy to stop.
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Follow Up By: SDG - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 21:57

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 21:57
I was told the other day that the servo at Glenrowan runs different prices. Apparently the side that fills trucks, is a couple of cents cheaper than the side that does cars.
Have not stopped to fuel up, but having a look next time I do go past.
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Follow Up By: mfewster - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 23:18

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 23:18
I am not into conspiracy theories but it does seem to me that there is a case for thinking diesel prices in Oz are rigged. It is still my understanding that diesel costs less to produce than petrol. Anyone out there from the petroleum industry who wants to dispute this? Does anyone know of any other country in the world where diesel costs more than petrol?
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Follow Up By: Andrew & Jen - Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 09:25

Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 09:25
Hullo mfewster
I recall a thread on this subject some time ago when I think it was The Landy that had the inside running on refinery costs, etc, for different fractions. I think he is away in NZ at the moment so you may need to do a search to find it.
I also seem to recall from that thread that we get most of our diesel from Singapore (?) and the price in Asia is relatively high as a much greater % of vehicles run on diesel and there is a high demand.
Cheers
Andrew
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Reply By: Rockape - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 09:31

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 09:31
Axle,
this would be a perfect time to pull that diesel out of your excavator and put in a petrol. LOL.

RA.

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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:11

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:11
Lol Ra, Not quiet at that stage yet,.....But with the likes of toyota

building a powerful V8 pedo with the same economy as their sixes or there abouts, its getting interesting......Most of the fitters i know absolutely hate the later common rail engines fitted to earthmoving equiptment, but it wont change now i don't think.


Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:26

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:26
Axle,
My lungs and complexion loved the new common rails.

All that soot and smoke gone from the underground environment. It would really mess with my makeup and change the shade of my lipstick. I had this really nice little floral number with matching shoes and it absolutely ruined them.

Seriously I can remember not being able to see with a bogger and a few trucks working on a level. Eyes would be burning and skin stinging from the diesel. Once the common rails came in that all stopped.

I know Europe has a about 50% diesel vehicles.

RA.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:12

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:12
Most petrol cars in Europe are tiny little buzz boxes. The garage pumps on the motorways seem to be heavily weighted towards diesel. Petrol is at least 10c a litre dearer than diesel. Fuel is a lot more expensive than it is here, hence the focus on fuel economy. There aren't even many 6's on the road let alone 8's. In the interest of conserving world oil supplies, I think they are doing the right thing...unlike some other countries.
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Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:38

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:38
RA, ...I think its just all the hi Tec stuff on them that a lot of fitters don't like, especially when they have to be trained all over again.


Yes the smokes stopped, ..But its all come at a price , ok for big buck mining companys,something goes wrong get a new one quick!,

The small guys struggle in that area.

Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 13:15

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 13:15
Has a bit to do with safety as well. I come from the bad old days of operators having to use medi air so they could breath.

One of the big problems is the way they are achieving the low emissions. Was talking to the owner/operator of a 908 with a 6oo isx the other day an he was over the problems with the emission system.

I can just see you with a 540 cubic inch Keith Black in that excavator running on nitro.

have a good one,
RA.
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 09:59

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 09:59
Hi Axle

What's "Pedo", as mentioned in your initial post?

Diesel is consistently cheaper here than the higher octane unleaded.

Phil
AnswerID: 503927

Follow Up By: Axle - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:26

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:26
G/Day Phil,......I think High octane unleaded fuel might be a rip off!,.. It was discussed by the NRMA, on TV the other night and their saying the same thing.(not much different to normal unleaded if any)


-95 octane unleaded is about $1.37 average around here e10 cheaper if you use it.

Diesel hasn't been under $1.48.9 - $1.50, for mths around here.


( Pedo....Petrol)

Cheers Axle.
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Reply By: wizzer73 - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:38

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 10:38
"Toyo are selling landcruiser V8 petrols in evidentley enough numbers to keep the sales going, so do they keep gazing into the crystal ball and know more than we know???"

And the new nissan patrol, only petrol. They may have a crystal ball as well??

wizzer

AnswerID: 503931

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 16:17

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 16:17
Yeap....... Nissans crystal ball says "arabs don't like diesel cars" and it also says "petrol is always going to be cheaper over there".
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Reply By: Candace S. - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:36

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 12:36
Interesting thread!

In the USA, diesel used to be cheaper than petrol (gasoline). Except in fall/winter, because more petroleum was diverted to make home heating oil. But that price advantage mostly disappeared several years ago.

Here's a chart that shows the average price difference between petrol and diesel from 2000 to 2011:Chart

I haven't been paying close attention (I don't own any diesels), but I think diesel currently is about $.30/gallon more expensive.
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Follow Up By: Candace S. - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 12:42

Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 12:42
Oops...I actually looked today while I was travelling around: diesel is $.80 - .90 per gallon more expensive right now, at least here in northern Utah. Ouch!
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Reply By: SDG - Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 22:03

Sunday, Feb 03, 2013 at 22:03
A couple of weeks ago I was staying on base at Pukapunyal, where diesel is 155/L. Was told not to fill up there.
10km or so down the road on the highway, diesel was 144/L.
Probably delivered by the same truck, but obviously 10km is an expensive trip.lol
Seymore itself was the same price as Puka.


All to do with volume sold I'm guessing.
AnswerID: 504019

Reply By: Alan S (WA) - Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 10:36

Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 10:36
Hi Axle

I think one of the reasons that keeps the diesle price high is the lack of consumer volume.
Most service stations act as distrubutors for fuel companies so, they dont own the stock but get paid a margin for selling it.
There are certainly a lot of diesel vehicles but the high volume users usually have accounts with the fuel companies, at contract prices. So even though they are filling up at a servo they arn't actually paying bowser price.
Unlike ULP where the demand is higher by cash paying customers, and servo's have to discount or keep prices low to attract business.
On the up side, diesel prices are very stable and aren't subject to the wild fluctuations of ULP.

Alan
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Reply By: Robin Miller - Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 12:02

Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 12:02
Bit sad in a way Axle , but I think the trend will continue to make diesel even dearer than petrol.

Can't say I have had any regrets over my descision to stick with the fuel guzzlers.

Some of the new petrol cars are eating into the area once diesel only territory , the new 200 series petrol engine looks good as does the new 300kw patrol.

But the mazda 6 is even more interesting as its now running a 13:1 compression ratio on normal 91 unleaded fuel which was once unheard of.

This combined with fact that S.A. has massive new potential oil reserves and this could be the year that USA makes more oil than Saudia arabia so the medium term future is bright for petrol cars despite dire predictions in the past.



Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Axle - Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 20:59

Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 20:59
G/Day Robin, I was a bit concered when i bought our V8 Petrol cruiser, had a few top end dramas and it appeared to guzzle fuel.

After we got the motor sorted(one Head) the thing has been very impressive as has the economy it gives for a vehicle of its size, and as diesel prices rise, we are increasingly happier campers week by week..with this vehicle.

Cheers Axle.
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 21:42

Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 21:42
Robin ! The problem with finding reserves Oil or Gas or any other resource, its all exported! Like Natural gas and now digging up peoples back yards for coal seam gas, it all goes out of the country for a quick buck. I bet if that SA oil reserves come to life, we as a nation get no price benefit from it no matter how much we have. China, India and the US will be knocking on our door to get the lion share. A few individuals will make some big money but thats about it. Michael
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 21:32

Monday, Feb 04, 2013 at 21:32
Gday Axle :) After reading your post here, i sent you a violin in the post, no strings attached!! Enjoy!! Michael
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Follow Up By: Axle - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 09:25

Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 09:25
LOL!......Yours is comming!



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Reply By: Member - Boobook - Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 10:28

Tuesday, Feb 05, 2013 at 10:28
I recently read an article saying that diesel has been expensive relative to petrol because of increased wealth in Asia leading to construction, heavy industry and transport, and our prices are based on the Singapore terminal prices.

But that wealth generation has now entered a second phase and the major thing people are buying is cars - Petrol cars. Given refining investment since about 2006 has mainly been in diesel to meet the higher demand, there is expected to be a petrol shortage and less of a diesel shortage until about 2020.

It said that in as soon as the next weeks the gap between Diesel and Petrol at the Australian pump will almost go away due to increased petrol prices of about 10 cents a liter, and the trend over 5 years will be a reversal of what we have seen for the last 7 years. It also said that 95 will take over from 91 on most pumps given the increased number of new cars on the road that specify it.

I will be interesting to see if petrol prices come up to diesel over the next weeks. I did notice diesel was only 7c per liter more that 91 last time I filled up, usually it is about 12 cents over unleaded.

Don't sell that Diesel just yet!





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