Waste Water question....?

Thank you. That is close to my take on it too. Fortunately, Councils
reaction seems to be more of a "cover my arse" strategy using the
environment as the reason. More on this in my response below.
cheers...oldbaz.

Gray water is not a problem in sandy soils – it soaks in.
In clay soils it’s a cosmetic thing – looks a bit messy.
It doesn’t take Einstein to filter out the food scraps.

By the way urine makes a good fertiliser – needs to be broken down with water or you risk burning the plants. Also better for the planet than chemicals.

Thank you DW. Fortunately, the Development Plan proposed is more
of an environmental issue combined with perceived liability issues.
Apparently calling a Council run camp a "caravan park" brings
certain conditions into play re the facilities that have to be provided.
It seems the renaming as a "Rest Area" removes such requirements,
& Council appears to be going to make that change. While I have no
argument against 'Fully Self Contained Vehicles", & admire your
efforts to protect our environment with your rig, the parameters
seem very restrictive.
The area is very well used by folk ranging from tenters to large
Winnebagos, & apart from minor generator issues (not yet covered
by signage) very little rubbish or pollution occurs. Toilets, showers
& water is provided. Use is free for 48 hrs with a donation location
close by, that is well supported, as are local businesses.
I see the proposed limitations as being difficult to enforce & will try
to see a more relaxed attitude adopted towards all users.
cheers...oldbaz

Our van was also one of the ones that allowed all the grey water to just flow out on the ground until I did a modification and fitted a grey water tank.
I bought a second-hand Camel water tank as they have several screw type inlet and outlet points in them so it was very easy to run the kitchen sink and hand basin into the top of the tank, but the shower with the lower outlet had to enter the tank via the outlet point.
I just used a T piece near the outlet of the tank and then fitted a tap in the line after that so that when the tap is closed shower water enters the tank and when empty it can flow to a suitable waste point.

I hate seeing caravans on sealed surfaces where they wash the dishes or hands and the water runs out on the parking area and often travels many metres down hill under other vehicles etc.

We have had ours fitted for a couple of years now and have not experienced any odours coming out of the tank.

Brian

Hello Di, we agree on the grey water thing. That tank looks like a
useful article. I use a 20l plastic container under the van sink. I've
never liked those black sullage hoses..they look like a bacteria trap to
me. Water is then used to water any shrub etc or put down the
sullage drain if available. cheers...oldbaz.

Hullo Andy and Oldbaz

I think the issue is about people's attitudes, not necessarily about what they chose to tour around in. If someone is too lazy, unaware, selfish, anti-social, or whatever, and empties grey water directly into a stream, they will do it whether they have a caravan, CT, tent, swag, etc. With portable showers and shower tents, wash up basins on legs, banning one form of transport doesn't make a lot of sense. Even at a declared picnic site, I have seen some people throw their scraps in the bush and chuck their washing up water on the ground.

As to having a grey water tank the same size as their water capacity, how silly can you get! No one with a large capacity storage is going to use the lot in one place. For example, we carry 445 litres of water in 5 tanks. Between the 2 of us, we would use about 10 litres of water for a shower with little or no soap and about the same amount (or less) for washing up. (Marvellous how living in a boat at sea trains you to be frugal :) If required, the grey water goes into a 20 litre container for disposal later.

Cheers
Andrew

Andrew do you have a link to this requirement in NSW NP's? Did a bit of Googling but couldn't find anything - but I have found from experience that the parks website is good at putting things in "fine print".

IF they were to strictly enforce such a rule (and I doubt that they could) it could effectively exclude a majority of park visitors. But maybe thats what they want?

Cheers,

Val

Hi Andrew,
I have 2x 85lt tanks one for fresh water other for grey water. I shower in a large plastic wash tub and pump the water back into the grey water tank same with washing up water.
As for the size of the tank, if you only had 100lt in a 445 lt tank you would only need a 100lt grey water tank. It says " You must have a container big enough to hold the same amount of water as you brought into the park".
I might have mislead you in my post as saying the same size. basically what you take in you take out.
Andy

Hi Heather, nice to hear from you. Can you clarify that your new van
doesnt collect the shower water, as this is the type of info I need.
While I cant fight them on all the environmental issues, I may be able to refine their plans if I can show that the criteria will exclude
nearly everyone.
On a different vein...when are you off to the west ?..& what route
are you taking ?. I know we are probably too close for a first night camp, but at 2 min off the highway..a brief stop may be possible.
It would be nice to see you again..
I fully understand why you drain the water away....if it formed a
puddle John would be fishing in it...:))))))..regards.....oldbaz.

Hi Baz,

No the new van does not have a grey water tank to collect the shower water, although we did think about putting one on. (It does n't have a washing machine either.)

We leave home on 8th April however are travelling via Mallacoota and are booked in there a for 10 days, so unfortunately can't take you up on the offer of calling in...some other time maybe though.

We meet up in Mallacoota with Johns sister and Brother in law who are going to accompany us to the west and we are thinking about taking the Alpine road over Mt Hotham and Harrietville to Bright from there. Otherwise going via Cann River and then to Bombala, Cooma and across to Tumut and then Wagga...undecided as yet.

The men are starting the trip with fishing, fishing and more fishing....
however if thats what it take for me to get away in the van for 6 months I can put up with it!

What are your plans for travel?

Good luck with your interraction with Council.

regards,

Heather

Hi Heather, thanks for the info. Our departure is May 18..via Bourke,
Cameron Corner,Innamincka, Boulia, Plenty, Alice, Uluru, GCR,
Leonora,Wiluna,Newman, Karijini..then south to Freo, home via
Nullabor. Doesnt sound much if you say it quick..:))). all weather permitting, of coarse, We might find
you meandering up the coast somewhere...cheers....oldbaz.

How long are you going to be in Freo for Oldbaz????

Hi Oldbaz,
Sounds like a wonderful trip...so much red dirt which I love. As you know we did the Corner Country and Dig tree last Winter and had a fantastic time.
We will keep a lookout for you.We are the 'Glyde Inn' and have ExplorOz wheel cover and garbage bag on van spare...easy to spot.

The only place I have booked us into is Cape range National Park near Exmouth from 25th June for 4 nights..staying Osprey Bay campground.We couldn't get a site last trip and were disappointed so looking forward to that.
We will be south of there before and North (probably Karajini afterwards).

G'day Dunworkin, we will only have 2 nights in Freo, & have to visit
2 lots of relo's...one at Erskine, the other at Munster . We plan to
stay at Woodman Point C/p. If things go to plan we should be there
Friday June 21st, & Sat 22nd.
cheers.....oldbaz.

Aaah, Motherhen,astute as ever. My plan of attack is to insist on the
availability of a dump point. As toilets exist already, this shouldnt be
a huge deal. As Councils continue to tighten restrictions & insist on
containment, they cannot do so without disposal facilities. Your
point re portable collection vessels then becomes most relevant, as
users of all types of vehicles can then dispose of grey water, (and
effluent) in an environmentally sound way.
I would indeed like the link you speak of, maybe by MM if you
dont wish to post on the forum.
Thanks for your interest.......oldbaz.

I too have hassled my Council to put in a dump point - well subsidised by the CMCA CMCA Dump Point Scheme but they still baulked and put in free power in the caravan (day only) parking area instead.


Your town can even go the whole way and go for CMCA RV Friendly Towns Scheme but a few simple things like dump point, big rig parking near CBD and 48 - 72 hour parking at low cost or free near to the town will satisfy many and invite them to come and stay and patronise town businesses.


Dump points are a health issue like public toilets. Now many travellers no longer rely on using public toilet as they have there own so it is a just a shift of use. My husband is quite irate that some towns do not see the public health necessity.


Relevant recent links Poll on fitted grey water tanks and Compulsory grey water tank - where at?. There are many others on this oft discussed topic. It is easy to dispose of grey water sensibly - even for tenters.

Well said there Gone Bush, my sentiments exactly.

Cheers, Bruce.

Thanks Bruce and OldBaz (for your "thanks").

Just to clarify, this definition originates in the US where "liberal" means "socialist" over there.

Political correctness is entirely in the eye of the beholder and people who use it as an excuse to rail against some restriction they don't like invariably have at least one eye closed.

Hi Phil,
Reminds me of the story my brother (Motorhome owner and member of the CMCA) was telling me about a guy in a fully self contained motorhome who pulled into the garage where he works.

His black water tank valve was open and dripping its contents along the driveway as he pulled in so the brother told him that he was commiting an illegal act by dumping his black water as he drove along the highway.

The guy told him to mind his own business but not in such polite terms.

No matter what you do you cannot educate some people and rules mean little to them unless there is someone in a uniform nearby.

The best we can do is lead by example and hope they will aspire to our standards.

Cheers, Bruce.

Peter, you make good sense, but I'm concerned that a trend started in the US (and maybe NZ) might be picked up willy-nilly by local govt in an effort to cover their liability over real or imagined public health issues.

Australia is in many respects different to both US and NZ and those differences should be factored in to any response to waste water disposal. For starters for every one person travelling in Australia there are a dozen or so in the US so its easy to see that there would be more need to avoid inappropriate disposal of waste water. Much of the US has a wetter and colder climate too, so waste water wont dissipate so easily.

Any Australian limitations or regulations should be based on our particular environmental and demographic requirements.

I don't know the proportion of travellers in the US who use tents or camper trailers or variants on that theme, but as a traveller who uses such a space (and by implication, water) constrained system I am concerned that the implications of this trend (if it is a trend) could be unduly limiting for the considerable number of responsible travellers like us.

By all means install grey water tanks where possible in large caravans and motorhomes, but owners of small rigs should watch this development very carefully.

More to the point, before restrictions and laws etc become a reality, a sensible well run education campaign should be the first tactic to get people on the road to do the right thing WRT to proper disposal of ALL waste. To date I am not aware of any such campaign, apart from the LNT guidelines, and those don't seem to be spread much beyond the caravanning set. We just assume that everyone that sets off to see the sights knows how to do the right thing or has a modicum of common sense - but the evidence shows that there are many who genuinely dont have a clue. Lets tackle that so that travellers can make informed choices about the actions they take when they are out "camping".

Cheers,

Val

Unfortunately John/Val we are experiencing ever increasing numbers of people travelling, apparently caravan and camper sales are increasing all the time so it will only get worse, hopefully not to the same levels experienced in NA.
Regulations are already being tightened here too, we've found a few caravan parks, rec areas etc that have a no grey water on the ground policy and we try to avoid parks as a rule so they must be increasing.
There are also staring to be places mostly along the coastal fringe where you cannot camp without having a porta potti as a minimum.
But you are correct in that lots don't have a clue, when I was instructing at driver training courses it was part of the curriculum and most had never given it any thought.

From what I have read NZ used to specify fitted grey water tanks but that has now been changed to allow portable containers to be used to remove grey water from a site.