Is driving too slow an offence?

Submitted: Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:20
ThreadID: 101741 Views:11955 Replies:24 FollowUps:63
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Recently there was a post about caravans and people in general driving too slow and holding up the traffic.
There were quite a few people who said there is no law against it and they will drive at whatever speed they feel comfortable with.........

Well apparently in WA, driving at 20kmh below the signposted speed limit IS a traffic offence.....you can be fined and I think they said 1 demerit point.
Just something to keep in mind.......


Cheers
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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:28

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:28
I don't know of laws with specific low speed rates, WA or elsewhere but certainly I'm sure that laws such as 'Driving Without Due Care' etc could be applied if the police considered that the motorist's speed was inappropriate and dangerous to other road users.
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Allan

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Follow Up By: David16 - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:36

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:36
There is this road rule:

125. Unreasonably obstructing drivers or pedestrians

(1) A driver must not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian.
Penalty: 2 penalty units.
Note Driver includes a person in control of a vehicle—see the definition of drive in the dictionary.
(2) For this rule, a driver does not unreasonably obstruct the path of another driver or a pedestrian only because—
(a) the driver is stopped in traffic; or
(b) the driver is driving more slowly than other vehicles (unless the driver is driving abnormally slowly in the circumstances).

Example of a driver driving abnormally slowly
A driver driving at a speed of 20 kilometres per hour on a length of road to which a speed-limit of 80 kilometres per hour applies when there is no reason for the driver to drive at that speed on the lemyth of road.
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Reply By: Rockape - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:33

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:33
Hairy,
one thing I can pick up from this is, I know you ride a tractor but you don't drive a backhoe. Gotcha.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:11

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:11
Ya lost me?
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 07:10

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 07:10
Hairy,
yep it was a bit out there.

I was just having a dig about you riding a Harley and you are definitely not a backhoe operator driving along the highway with your machine flat strap at 30 KPH.

We get all the cane haulers in the season barrelling along at 30 kph on the highway. Biggest complaint with them is many don't realise they are doing that speed and they come up on them very quickly and have trouble slowing down.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 21:28

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 21:28
Hahahahaha!!!!
Guess what?
I am a backhoe "operator"...... and do regularly drive down the highway.......only thing you got wrong is I get about 45kph out of the poor thing.
I always switch over to 40 and let them know I can see them coming and Ill be out of the way.
Ya learn to dodge.

LOL
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Reply By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:34

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:34
Can't be bothered retracing that thread but if I recall correctly most states have a catch-all in regards to slow driving where it might cause a hazard. I think the proviso is something like "without due cause" which could exempt cases where it is impossible to pull over and allow traffic to pass - assuming you have a valid reason for driving slowly in the first place.
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Reply By: Mudripper - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:40

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:40
Hi Hairy,

People driving slowly don't really bother me that much (within reason of course!)...

...but I absolutely hate it when some idiot can't hold a steady speed. Once 70 then 80 then 60 then back to 70. Oh yes, then you try to overtake them! They bloody put the foot down. I get that all the time here in Tassie. You have to break the speed limit just to pass the blighters! Of course I am patient on the road, and always drive within the limit, but sometimes that patience wears a bit thin...hehehe.

But back to the original topic, I do think that people should be booked for going way too slow. It is after all a danger, IMO. You have people that have no over-taking skills and slowly a high-way procession forms. However, I don't think this applies to caravaners only. You get the same from ordinary cars as well.

Well, just my 2c worth!

Cheers,

Tim.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:37

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:37
Hi Tim

I agree about the general thrust of this thread but about holding speed!

And now with cruise control it is annoying. Maybe I should say "niggling". Sitting behind someone going 1 kph faster that the car that he's overtaking.

I wonder why it wasn't such an issue before cruise control. I travelled a lot, Melbourne to Sydney and back every 2nd weekend to see my girlfriend (now wife of 43 years). It was quite common to link up with another car for hundreds of miles and it was never an issue Strange! Were we more forgiving and only to happy to have the company of another car at 2AM with the road empty for miles.

Phil
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Reply By: Pathycop - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:42

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 21:42
Hi Hairy. I wear the blue uniform in Victoria and worked highway patrol in Easy Gippsland for several years. Very popular region with nomads and the Princes Highway was always chokkas with vans, Rv's and trailers etc. Only ever attended 1 serious accident (fatal) involving a slow caravan in 9 years caused apparently by the young driver trying to overtake a b-double and getting sucked in by the "bow wave" at the front of the truck.
Driving below the speed limit is not an offence in Vic. But, common sense approach is needed by all parties. I have been called out to pull over a few fellas towing a van at less than 70-80 ks on the highway and having 3 k of traffic behind them all taking risks to overtake due to impatience. I still remember my last one before hanging up the breeches on Boxing Day a few years ago. After several 000 calls I found our driver toddling along with all sorts of mayhem behind him. Flashing lights and horns. I did a u turn to get behind him, let into the line by thankful motorist and then took 2 k to get him to pull over. Eventually old fella pulls up. I go to speak with him and he claimed he wasn't even towing a van. Long wait for the relatives to come rescue him!
Common sense says, drive at your comfortable speed but have consideration for those behind you and pull up every o often. And if you are the one behind, breathe deep and wait til it is safe to pass.
Graeme
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 20:49

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 20:49
Hahahahaha
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Reply By: Motherhen - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:22

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:22
Is driving too slow an offence? - NO it is not.
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:24

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:24
As almost every farmer well knows! LOL
Sorry MH
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 14:57

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 14:57
Hi

Think you are confusing driving "slow" with driving "too slow". Driving "too slow" implies a speed below a predetermine level - in the context of this thread that would be whatever the lawmakers/enforcers determine.

In the real world everyone will have the own definition of "too slow" depending on circumstances. There is no doubt that going "slow" in some instances is "too slow" i.e. dangerous - offense or no offense. Other times just going "slow" is fine.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 15:54

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 15:54
Hi Greg

Apart from freeways which do not allow learner drivers, animals and very slow types of transport, on the open road it is driving to the conditions of weather, road and your conveyance.

The sin would not be in travelling too slow, but in obstructing traffic unnecessarily by not pulling over when safe to do so to allow traffic to overtake, or speeding up in overtaking lanes or otherwise blocking the traffic from overtaking in these lanes. Single cars are probably the worst offenders in the latter.

If we are for example moving a Harvester and field bin on the road, we travel very slowly like 20-30 kph and have to have a wide load warning vehicle in front and at the rear. We will of course pull over when it is possible to allow any vehicle approaching from the rear to overtake.

In all these cases, use your UHF on Channel 40 (or other specified channel for that road) to keep in touch and be forewarned. I realise that not all caravanners respond to UHF :(

Mh

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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 20:53

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 20:53
Gday Motherhen,
According to the show I watched last night....it is an offence in WA.
Obviously with a pilot vehicle and permits etc you would be exempt though.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 21:09

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 21:09
Hi Hairy

Did they say what the charge was?

With normal farm machinery we do not (as yet) need permits or to employ escort companies from Perth - we can still move our own equipment on most rural roads, but the requirements of vehicles in front and to rear all add to the costs we are up against. No longer just a vehicle in front for the approaching traffic - also one behind just in case the car driver can't see a great big field bin or header. Of course wide load signs and flashing lights have to be in place and we can only move in daylight hours.

Mh
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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:31

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:31
In good old WA you are committing an offence if you drive on a designated freeway at less than 20 kph below the posted speed limit. So if the limit is 100 kph you must travel at no less than 80 kph unless conditions such as traffic or weather make it unsafe to do so.
I am pretty sure this rule does not apply to other roads however you are required to not impede other road users unduly and courtesy dictates that if you have a few cars lined up behind you, pull over when safe to do so.
The posted speed limit is intended as a maximum in optimal conditions.

My personal opinion only, but I would think 85-90 kph on a road with a maximum limit of 100-110 kph would not be unreasonable. I do not see why if a driver feels comfortable at that speed or maybe his choice of van/trailer and vehicle are comfortable to drive at those speeds why he should have to travel at speeds that he/she is uncomfortable with just because someone else thinks he/she should.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:38

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:38
So what if the vehicle is not physically capable of going at the required 20kph below the speed limit? I have one fully registered vehicle that is only capable of 75kph top speed so cruising is about 65-70kph. Likewise there are many other older vehicles that cannot maintain this speed.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Pathycop - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:54

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 22:54
My thoughts exactly. Basically an unenforceable law made to really only stop people deliberately impeding traffic in a very narrow set of circumstances.

Graeme

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Follow Up By: get outmore - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 23:16

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 23:16
garrycol, there are sighns on the freeway prohibitting such slow but registred vehicles from the freeway
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Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 23:25

Tuesday, Apr 16, 2013 at 23:25
As long as they keep left or pull over safely to let other pass, then really it's just part of using the road.

Other side of the coin though, coming back from Moonan Brook on the Easter weekend, decided to take the scenic route down the Wollombi road back to Sidders, copped a couple of hairy tree huggers in a Kombi just south of Wollombi doing no more than 40 k's an hour all the way to The Letter A (love that name - one of the strangest town names in Australia !!). By the time we got there, there was a queue of at least 40 plus cars behind them. Plenty of chances to pull over, nope ! - the cosmic kiddies were oblivious to the mahem behind them...

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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 17:34

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 17:34
"garrycol posted:

"So what if the vehicle is not physically capable of going at the required 20kph below the speed limit?"

Simple, use other roads,

When we stayed at Karrinyup Waters C/P one of the red Explorer buses was garaged next door. We used it to go into Perth and back (public holiday, no buses past C/P, we did the Explorer route that day and they let us use the bus to get to the city and back.) The driver used back roads to get to the city.I asked him why he did not use the freeway. He said the bus would not travel fast enough (more than 80 km/h below the speed limit.)
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 17:59

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 17:59
Get out more - I have never seen such signs - can you give me an example. I have seen signs preventing Bicycles and Agricultural vehicles but not normal registered vehiicles.

Nomadic Navara - that may be a prudent action but it is not law and that is the subject of the thread. What if there is not an reasonable alternative - the F3 out of Sydney comes to mind.

Speaking of the F3 - what about trucks, some of which cannot maintain 50kph going up the hills of the 110kph F3 - are they illegal - no.

I would respectively submit that driving too slow being an offence is a myth - no one on this thread has shown that it exists. Laws about obstruction clearly do exist but that is something different.

On a multi-lane freeway if you do not keep left you can be booked but if you are in the left lane and doing 40kph in the 110kph area you cannot be booked for going too slow.

Garry
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 00:16

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 00:16
Garry, it's not me that should get out more. I was reporting on a situation 4,000 km from home.

Pop was reporting on a regulation in WA. I was backing him up. I suppose you will now come back and say I was guilty of not saying that this regulation was specific to WA (where they don't have hills on their freeways, like they do over here.) The OP was also mentioning the situation in WA.
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Follow Up By: DiscoTourer - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 00:31

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 00:31
Traveling more than 20kph slower on freeways only in wa is an offence (highways don't have this restriction)....and it's enforced.
My dear mother copped a $150 fine and 1 demerit point in Jan this year. 75kph.
He was a rookie officer, and my mother gave a little too much lip. He would have probably let her off if it was not for that. Checked it out at the Cannington Police station...the officer was right but they commented that it rarely occurred.
Not keeping left is not an offence in wa. It was removed from legislation about 10 years ago. I wished they brought it back as wa drivers heading out of Perth get in the right hand lane as they need to turn right at the Broome turnoff....can't miss out on their spot.

Brett....
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Follow Up By: garrycol - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 02:17

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 02:17
Peter D - I was not saying you need to get out more - I was responding to followup 3 of 8 which was put up by get out more. It is is shame this forum refuses to follow the format of the majority of forums and does not have a quote function.

Cheers

Garry
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Reply By: Dust-Devil - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:16

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:16
Q. Is driving too slow an offence

A. Yes

If you want to experience the ambiance, fresh air, camaraderie, etc etc - take a Tour and get off the roads.

Serious Alternative:

Do your level best to maintain the posted speed limit/s and if these terrify you, seek medical help.

DD
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:51

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 03:51
Did you see the shorts for the next Top Gear. Jeramy is in some funny stand up looking thing that is just crawling along with miles of angry traffic behind him. You have to see it and in the context of the show you have to laugh.

What are you doing up so late/early?

Phil
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 17:42

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 17:42
Laugh at Clarkson and Co..all you like.

BUT...remember it is a scripted TV show and just to get some of the things they drive, on the road they would have to have a stack of permits as thick as a phone book.

These guys have permits to use an operating airfield capable of landing a 747 as a race track for gods sake.

Remember for every vehicle you see in the show there will be another 2 crew or support vehicles..some of those would require permits or exemptions to be there used the way they are.

When they can re-plant a whole very popular, high profile shopping street with Fiat Bambinos, 50 or so of the little buggers...you get an idea of the scale of the manipulation and the depth of the BS.

Clarkson traveling down a road, with a string of cars behind.....they are probably all paid extras.....the beeping horns and general abuse are probably either as per direction or inserted in post production.

Not real.

Oh and they have distroyed hundreds of caravans on this and other shows......Hammond's show brainiac, blows up at least 4 caravans every show...so they can't be all bad.....:)

cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 18:20

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 18:20
Of course we know that. We are just having some fun and la laugh.

Don't spoil it mate. There are enough threads with whinging and complaining all through them. eg that coffee one.

Catchya

As George Elliot said "Wear a smile and have friends; wear a scowl and have wrinkles".

Phil

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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 10:55

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 10:55
What! So everything on TV isnt true......naaaaa.......next you'll be telling us rabbits dont bleep chocolate!!!!

I think you will find Top Gear is supposed to be funny and directed at those with a sense of humour. Not a documentry for QC'c........
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:05

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:05
Hairy

Are you having a dig at me again??? And I thought Top Gear was true! Bugger. Now that's spoilt it all.

What a lovely day. A whole bunch of sparrows on the back verandah chasing ferral cats and the roos over the back in the paddock are playing footy with the wild dogs. I tell you not. I never lie. I won't say what the rabbits are doing.

Phil
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:14

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:14
I do realise that most people would understand that there is an eliment of fiction to top gear.

But I doubt very much that they would grasp the depth and scale of the BS.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:24

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:24
Oh...absolutely.....Only us few extremely intelligent beings would pick up something so in-depth. Bwahahahahah!!!!
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:43

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:43
What! Did they give you a dishonorable discharge from Mensa Hairy.

Shame on you.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:50

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:50
No....why? Did they forget to list me on their honour board?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 14:21

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 14:21
Hey Bantam,


What's with ya "These (Top Gear) guys have permits to use an operating airfield capable of landing a 747 as a race track for gods sake." Another of ya throwaway statements with no basis! It is not an operational airfield.


Dunsfold aerodrome was originally constructed for the Canadian Air Force during WWII, later used by Hawker, BAE and others for military aircraft development. Then came use by Lotus and others as a vehicle test track facility. Today it is owned by a property development group. Even if a 747 could have ever landed there, they certainly could not now as the shortened airstrip is limited to very restricted light aircraft use. The facility is now used mostly by driving schools and air/motor shows. Most vehicle activity is on former taxiways not just runways. And not a 747 in sight!


Top Gear do not need any "permits" to use the facility. They lease a former hangar as a studio and use of the vehicle test/race track as of right.


So impressive how you can conjure up expressions of "fact" to support ya arguments. Some people may be really impressed.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: garrycol - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 19:19

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 19:19
There is a 747 parked there - one that was mocked up with two engines on each wing station rather than the single engine. Is often seen in the background when driving around the circuit.

Garry
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 21:30

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 21:30
Yes indeed that airfield is still operational.....and oh yes the big white 747 is frequently in shot......its the same 747 that scrap heap challenge towed down the runway.

Now I wonder how that 747 got there and how it will leave.

In addition there are often other aircraft in shot in many of the shows.

I am sure there are many hangars available for lease on various aerodromes all over the world.

Hell I have some friends who live in one and run a film & TV support operation from it......While they can land a chopper at their front door..... they are not allowed drive their car up & down the runway without a very good excuse.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 23:40

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 23:40
Yes Bantam, The 747 was retired to Dunsfold some years ago and has been used in some film productions including Casino Royale. It is no longer airworthy and could not fly out even if it were. The runway has been shortened by development activity, so it is no longer capable of landing a 747 or anything like it. The runway is now operational only to light aircraft. You need wonder no longer.

Amazing that you have friends living at Dunsfold yet you were not aware of the airfield's current limitations. Of course your friends could not "drive their car up & down the runway". They do not lease the runway and some taxiways as do the Top Gear group.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 09:04

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 09:04
Now i continue to be amazed at the thaught processes & the lack of plain english comprehension on this forum.

Particularly when they are arguing just for the sake of it.

NOW..did I ever say I had friends living at Dunsfield.....no i did not.

cheers
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 09:38

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 09:38
My most humble apologies Bantam.
I missed your "all over the world" and naturally assumed you were referring to Dunsfold as that was the subject after all.
You can be difficult to follow when you introduce asides to muddy the waters.
Oh, and as for "plain english comprehension", it's 'Dunsfold' not "Dunsfield" and 'thought' not "thaught".
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 04:03

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 04:03
I couldn't resist putting this up.



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Follow Up By: Mudripper - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 12:31

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 12:31
It's funny that you should put this up Phil...I was just watching this episode last night! LOL
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Reply By: Member - Alan H (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 06:59

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 06:59
Was in California recently and over there they have a law which states it is an offence to have more than 5 vehicles trapped behind you on the road. You are expected to pull over and let them pass. I had to pull over sometimes on unknown windy roads through the ranges as locals sped by.

Most of their roads however are dual lanes each way so holding up traffic does not become an issue.

Alan
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 07:49

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 07:49
Isn' it an offence "to have LESS than 5 vehicles trapped behind you". Well at least a quarter of Canberra's population are public servants and we cannot have things running efficiently can we!

You misread it Alan

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Alan H (QLD) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 08:11

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 08:11
Phil

?????????????

I was talking about California USA not Canberra

Maybe I have have misread you.

Alan
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:16

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:16
Same 5 car rule exists in some provinces in Canada. Also, some freeways in Toronto (and maybe elsewhere) have minimum speeds posted. If you can't keep up you have to do the rat run.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:31

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:31
I was just turning it around for Canberra mate. All fine.

For the yanks I would believe you.

Catchya
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:34

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:34
Frank

I missed another one. Too good for my simple brain.

What's a "rat run"?

Should I duck my head in shame or just slip out the door?

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:48

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:48
Phil,

Dodging through suburban streets and minor roads. The esteemed Sydney Morning Herald's readers use the term frequently when discussing the inadequacies of the Emerald City's road network!

Emerald City = Sydney :-) (Just in case you might have missed a third one :-) :-) :-))

Cheers

FrankP

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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 15:10

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 15:10
Frank

Unfortunately I spent half my life in Sydney. Thank god we left.

Never heard it called the emerald city before. Must be a recent thing.

Catchya

Phil

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 16:12

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 16:12
Phil,

Wish we could leave too, but attachment to kids and grandies keep us here. We're on the outskirts, so thankfully it doesn't take us too long to escape when we can. Musn't grumble - life is pretty kind ATM.

Cheers
FrankP

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Reply By: Member - Stephen L (Clare SA) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 07:59

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 07:59
Hi Hairy

The talk of the town ( Clare ) a number of years ago was when one interstate was driver was booked by our local boys in blue for doing 60 kph. Does sound unfair, but was in a then 110 zone and around 20 cars, trucks and caravans stuck behind it.

The excuse was they were not aware how many vehicles were stuck behind it and they were taking in the scenery. From reports of the time, one of the truckies called the police to see what was going on, thinking that there must have been a bad accident.


Cheers



Stephen
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Follow Up By: Motherhen - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 15:32

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 15:32
Hi Stephen

I bet the charge was not "driving too slow" but something else such as obstructing traffic flow.

Mh
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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 08:36

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 08:36
Just remember though that many heavy vehicles have a maximum governed speed limit of 100kph and if towing you are also restricted to a maximum of 100kph.
As has been said many older vehicles cannot do the posted limit and especially when loaded in hilly terrain they may only be capable of half the posted speed limit.
Way too much impatience these days, coupled with less tolerance of those unable to afford or don't wish to buy the latest whizz bang with twin turbo's and many cylinders.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:47

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 09:47
"...and if towing you are also restricted to a maximum of 100kph."

For "light" vehicle combinations, I think that is a WA thing. As far as I am aware, in other states you can tow up to the posted or default limit.

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:36

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 10:36
Just googling a bit ...

"in other states you can tow up to the posted or default limit."

Not quite correct, there is a qualification. You can do that if the combined mass of tow vehicle and trailer is 4500kg or less.

Above 4500kg combined mass there appears to be a national limit of 100kph. That would capture many 4WD and caravan combinations

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Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 21:32

Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 21:32
Peter,

you don't need a twin turbo to travel close to the limit. If a car is incapable of travelling at a reasonable speed, you'd have to ask about other aspects of its performance, like do the brakes work?.

Similarly, if a driver doesn't feel safe or comfortable travelling at the speed limit, they shouldn't be driving.

If a vehicle has to travel slowly for a particular reason, it should be driven so as to allow cars to pass easily. Sadly, most times I see a slow car it makes no effort at all to move over to allow others to pass.

I don't think its impatience to express frustration at being held up for kilometers behind a slow vehicle. Moving at or near the speed limit is a common courtesy, and essential for the safe use of the roads.

Bob
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Reply By: member - mazcan - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:15

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 11:15
hi hairy nt
yes I watched that and the guy said on a wa freeway if you drive more than 20ks below the speed limit you can incur a fine but he didn't say any other rd

what happens these days if one of the you beaut Toorak tractors goes into limp home mode
would its top speed be fast enough ?? or would the owner have to pull over and get a tow truck if say for instance on a freeway
what about licenced tractors on a public rd very few of them could do the speed limit
cheers
AnswerID: 509204

Reply By: The Bunyip - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 13:48

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 13:48
It may not be illegal. But I'm happy to provide some adjectives such as "ignorant" & dare I say in some cases "dangerous". No doubt some may disagree though.
AnswerID: 509208

Reply By: Member -Dodger - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 16:36

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 16:36
Just to add to this discussion, some vehicles are restricted to 80kph when towing.
This is from the vehicle manufacturer.
I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.

Cheers Dodg.

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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:17

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:17
Gday,
I havent read all the posts yet as I just got home and have got things to do....but.... the reason I wrote what I did because I had just watched A Current Affair (or one of those shows) and It was regarding "10 road rules that most WA drivers werent aware of)
One of the rules was....It is an offence to drive at 20kph lower than the sign posted speed limit.........Yes offence

Im not saying its good bad or otherwise......just throwing it out there
AnswerID: 509218

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:24

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:24
Hairy, Don't believe too much of what you see on a Current Affair show! LOL
Cheers
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Reply By: Batt's - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:25

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:25
When I was living in Perth a friend of my wife's was pulled over by the police for doing 50 in a 70 zone and warned about driving to slow and creating an unnecessary hazard on the road personally I would have booked he because she always drove very slow and backed up traffic
AnswerID: 509221

Reply By: Member - Murray M2 - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:47

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 19:47
Well, regards driving too slow, I always thought that to be a GOOD caravanner you keep an eye on your mirrors and when you find you have a few single or faster vehicles behind you (particularly truckies) " time is money to them" pull over and let them through.
I use my two-way and let the truckies know"I am ready for you go past" and they appreciate that. I even try to contact other vanners to let them know. And as for vanners that go along in convoy to me that is not only silly but brings us into disrepute, it also creates that "hairy moment" because of the crazy overtaking persons picking the double white lines or the corner etc.
If you Cant keep a good speed up then be very mindful of those behind you, We caravan people get a lot of criticism over how we travel , ie speed, convoy, not looking when pulling out, etc, so be aware and lets not be disliked.

I think it boils down to road manners.

AnswerID: 509223

Follow Up By: Member - VickiW - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 21:08

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 21:08
I must say pretty much all the caravanners I've come across have been considerate.

now learner drivers out in peak hour traffic on 10kms of single lane road all double lines on the other hand... I am usually very considerate of learner drivers but there was one around annangrove this summer who seemed to be learning to be as inconsiderate as their parent.
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FollowupID: 787002

Reply By: cobber - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 23:27

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 23:27
Driving too slow is illegal and hazardous.

Driving too slow is just as dangerous as speeding.

Matt says "where the speed limit is 100 k an hour you should not be doing less than 80 k an hour unless there's congestion or poor weather conditions. If you are driving too slowly on the freeway you'll only be hit with a $50 fine.

His what they said on Today to Night Channel 7 Perth yesterday 16th May 2013, A Cut and paste from their web site.
AnswerID: 509237

Follow Up By: cobber - Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 23:33

Wednesday, Apr 17, 2013 at 23:33
Before you all jump in boots and all, I did not say the above, the presenter Matt said it, I just cut and pasted it from Channel 7 today tonight web site
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Follow Up By: Rockape - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 13:24

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 13:24
cobber,
Ch 7 have failed in their report.

Everyone knows that someone who wears a hat while diving is exempt from being fined for going to slow.
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FollowupID: 787043

Reply By: The Bantam - Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 17:23

Thursday, Apr 18, 2013 at 17:23
In all states it has been possible to book someone for driving unreasonably slow for a very long time....under the basis of "obstructing traffic", "failing to show due care & attention", "failing to obey traffic signage", dangereous diving or a number of other non specific offences depending on the situation.

But they have not seen it necessary to spell it out......till now...expect it to roll thru into other states in course....and not before time.

It always comes down to the reasonable person test, or cause or excuse.

In QLD certain agricultrual equipment and road plant in particular cane haulers and harvesters are specificaly mentioned in the act.

If your vehicle is of a special type, like a crane...well it will be required to carry rotating beacons and the like just to be on the road.....these too are dealt with in the legeslation.......we need those things and they have to travel...so that is reasonable cause or excuse.

Over dimension loads, are definitely specifically dealt with and are rigidly regulated.

BUT.....if ya traveling along the good flat open highway under good conditions and you are traveling too slow.

It it a reasonable excuse to say...my vehicle, one that travels for recreation and for no ones benifit but the driver's with no special permits is fundamentally unstable and therefore unsafe at the posted speeds.

Is it a reasonable excuse to say I'm not in a hurry, or I am too cheap to travel at or near the posted speeds and am saving fuel at every body else's expense.

Is it reasonable to say that I am not properly trained or competent to handle the rig at or near the posted speeds.

The answer is clearly No it is not reasonable.

If your rig.....not being a specially permitted vehicle....is not 100% safe traveling along good, flat, open, highway, under good conditions at or near the posted speed limit...it should not be on the road.

If you are not 100% capable and confident driving that rig, likewise, at or near the posted speed limit...you should not be on the road.

20 Kmh under the speed limit is not reasonable without good excuse.

cheers
AnswerID: 509268

Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 21:37

Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 21:37
The Bantam for President, I reckon
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FollowupID: 787275

Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 09:59

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 09:59
I think you will find the 20 klm below the posted speed limit refers to driving in the right hand lane.

Neil
AnswerID: 509318

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:48

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:48
I thought that driving in the right hand lane was already illegal? I thought it was an overtaking lane only? It is in some states anyway?
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FollowupID: 787122

Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 14:31

Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 14:31
This is what the Australian Road Rules - 2012 states:

130 Keeping to the left on a multi-lane road

(1) This rule applies to a driver driving on a multi-lane road if:

(a) the speed-limit applying to the driver for the length of
road where the driver is driving is over 80 kilometres
per hour; or

(b) a keep left unless overtaking sign applies to the length
of road where the driver is driving.

Note 1 Length of road and multi-lane road are defined in the
dictionary.

Note 2 Part 3 deals with speed-limits.

(2) The driver must not drive in the right lane unless:

(a) the driver is turning right, or making a U–turn from the
centre of the road, and is giving a right change of
direction signal; or

(b) the driver is overtaking; or

(c) a left lane must turn left sign or left traffic lane arrows
apply to any other lane and the driver is not turning left;
or

(d) the driver is required to drive in the right lane under
rule 159; or

(e) the driver is avoiding an obstruction; or

(f) the traffic in each other lane is congested; or

(g) the traffic in every lane is congested; or

(h) the right lane is a special purpose lane in which the
driver, under another provision of the Australian Road
Rules, is permitted to drive; or

(i) there are only 2 marked lanes and the left lane is a slow
vehicle turn out lane.
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Reply By: DaveO*ST-R - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:42

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 10:42
Just to clear up any confusion as to whether it is a specific offence or not, here is the excerpt from the WA Road Traffic Code 2000. The rule applies to freeway speed zones only.

12. Minimum speeds on freeways

In a freeway speed zone, a person shall not drive a vehicle at a speed that is more than 20 km/h below the speed limit unless
(a) traffic congestion prevents the person from driving the vehicle at a speed that is within 21 km/h of the speed limit; or
(b) for any other reason, it is unsafe or imprudent for the person to drive the vehicle at a speed that is within 21 km/h of the speed limit.

Modified penalty: 1 PU

The definition of a freeway is found in Rule 3 which states....

"Freeway means a road or portion of a road that is designated as a freeway by signs erected thereon or adjacent thereto". The signs referred to are "Start Freeway" or "Freeway Entrance" at the beginning of the road and "End Freeway" at the end of the road.


For those interested, the link to the WA Road Traffic Code is here... WA Road Traffic Code 2000

In Victoria, there is no such rule, however there is one that says you must keep to the left on any multi-lane road (not just freeways) with a speed limit greater than 80 km/h, unless overtaking, turning right, avoiding an obstruction etc. Not sure what the situation is in other states because I have not looked it up, but at least I have learnt something new today about the WA rule !!

Cheers,

Dave
AnswerID: 509320

Follow Up By: garrycol - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 11:58

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 11:58
Sees a pretty silly law.

What is the P plate speed limit in WA - like the rest of Aust at 90kph? so a kid on P plates must drive at their max allowed speed on Freeways in WA. Now we all know P platers speed but that is not all that relevant except that if they drive at 91kph to obey the min freeway speed requirement but still be classed as speeding or drive at 89 kph and break the freeway law. Or they could drive at exactly 90kph and not break any law - have you tried driving exactly one speed for any length of time.

What about trucks that are already speed limited to 100kph (yes we know they drive faster) and they hit a hill on the Freeway and drop below 90kph - they are automatically breaking the law - by all means book people going slow if they are in the right hand lane but if they do the right thing and are in the left hand lane this should not be an issue.

We expect these type of laws from Qld and Vic but looks like WA is following suit.

Garry
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Follow Up By: DaveO*ST-R - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 13:12

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 13:12
Garry,

No arguments from me. I'm with you on that one. As long as slower vehicles on freeways keep to the left lane, I'm happy. I live in Victoria, and being off P plates for quite a number of years !!!!, I have not bothered to look up WA road rules relating to P plates speed restrictions before. P platers and learners have no extra speed restrictions on them in Victoria - same speed limits apply to them as us.

Dave
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FollowupID: 787152

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 13:50

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 13:50
"unless
(b) for any other reason, it is unsafe or imprudent for the person to drive the vehicle at a speed that is within 21 km/h of the speed limit. "

That would cover the "P" platers
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FollowupID: 787157

Follow Up By: Alan S (WA) - Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 14:04

Friday, Apr 19, 2013 at 14:04
I think you will find that the MAx speed on a Freeway in WA is only 100, and 110 is the max unrestricted speed for all other roads.

A P plater at 90K's is okay as it is only 10 below the speed.

This was a issue when the freeway south was extended and joined the Forrest Highway. Going south on the freeway you were doing 100 and at some point the speed changed to 110 with no change in the road style. It was more of a problem coming north doing 110 and then remembering to drop to 100.

WA freeways are pretty flat so the scenario of a truck slowing down under 20k's really isn't likely. The only ones that may are oversized loads and they aren't allowed on freeways anyway.


Alan
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FollowupID: 787158

Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 21:42

Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 21:42
Garry

I think clause 12 b addresses your concerns

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FollowupID: 787277

Reply By: Member - LG__ - Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 00:13

Saturday, Apr 20, 2013 at 00:13
And if that one isn't silly enough for you they also mentioned on the program
- smelly trees hanging from the rear vision mirror (not allowed) and
- Garfield stuck on the rear window (not allowed)

So a lot of people have been breaking those laws in WA without realising it!

Which was the whole point of the program - bringing to our attention the things nobody knows about because it isn't mentioned in the learners handbook, and no bugger on earth has ever looked up the Traffic Act until AFTER they've been charged with something they can't believe is an offence :-)

My d-i-l was involved with building the new Forrest Hwy and she mentioned at the time that it was an offence to drive 20km less than the speed limit.
I had never known that and I'd been driving over 30 years at the time !
AnswerID: 509354

Follow Up By: fisho64 - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:10

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:10
"So a lot of people have been breaking those laws in WA without realising it!"

and thats EXACTLY how the Gov and police like it to be...
so if your a smartypants they can always find something wrong

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FollowupID: 787323

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:39

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 11:39
I want to know if we are still supposed to be led a man with a red flag when in our motor carriages.

I am worried that I may get booked for not having a red flag. Lots of male bodies on the bull bar but not one has a red flag. The twits dropped them.
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FollowupID: 787330

Follow Up By: The Bantam - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 14:03

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 14:03
I am disgusted at the amount of genuinely informative information governments of all levels produce..and It has to contrubute to the general level on ignorance and poor standard of driving out there.

I've known for years that to have stuff dangling from ya mirror or various things stuck to windows as "a visual obstruction"..... but that was pointed out to me very early......my family and most of my mates and their families do not do that sort of stuff.

Its been an issue since year dot and was a known common "fries with that" thing that coppers used to book people for when they where looking for a little something extra.

But we where also drilled about dirty windscreens, bald spare tyres and a string of other "minor offences" and "minor vehicle defects"

We knew that knowing this stuff could be the difference between copping a fine and having to be "carefull" for a while or being a pedestrian because of that extra point you could have lost.

As for the red flag...no that rule is long gone....along with the ability to piss on your own drivers side rear wheel should the need arise......now they will zip you for public urination.

I wonder if you where caught by the side of the Birdsville track bleep on a bush, they would do you for "public urination".

cheers
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FollowupID: 787349

Reply By: Wilko (Parkes NSW) - Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 17:39

Sunday, Apr 21, 2013 at 17:39
Hi Hairy,

What gets my goat is someone travelling at 50 km/h on a rural tarred road thats got a 100km/h limit. You sit behind them for what feels like half an hour , It bleep s me.

Cheers Wilko
AnswerID: 509484

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