Ctek D250s

Submitted: Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 19:24
ThreadID: 101822 Views:4479 Replies:9 FollowUps:13
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I am thinking of mounting one under the bonnet in Land Cruiser a with a Turbo but I was wondering about the heat? I see Redarc have one which they say can take up to 80c but is a $100 dearer has anyone mounted one and how is it going.


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Reply By: Notso - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:00

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:00
They do state in the manual that if the unit gets too hot then it reduces the charging rate.

Is it to charge an under bonnet battery.
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Follow Up By: Member - 2517. - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:59

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:59
Yes thats my intention,but the solar hook up is my main reason.
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Reply By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:02

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:02
The good thing about the Ctek is they are water proof but the bad thing is they don't like the heat. The Redarc I think has a built in cooling fan so it can handle more heat but it is not water proof.

I have read that lots of people have trouble with the heat under the bonnet for the Ctek and some end up mounting them behind the grill. I have seen someone run the heat sensor cable to the grill to it will stay cool.

I have my Ctek charger in the camper so no problems with heat.

For the landcruiser and charging the second battery I have added an alternator booster diode like you can buy from Sidewinder - who is a member on this site.

http://www.sidewinder.com.au/page159aa.html

With this it will pump up the amount the alternator is putting out so my second battery gets a full charge. Previously my starter battery would get 13.4 to 13.8 and now it gets 14.2 to 14.5. This allows the second battery to get a decent charge. I then have a Sidewinder battery isolator kit.

I know the Ctek will do all this but I go this stuff before I knew about the Ctek.

Hope that makes sense.

Cheers

Serendipity


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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:13

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:13
The RedArc BCDC1220-40 are IP67 rated and can be submerged in water, the Ctek is IP65 and can not be submerged.

None of the RedArc BDCD's have a fan and neither does the BMS.

The RedArc will handle 80 deg C. plus but starts derating around 65 Deg C.

We mount the BCDc's usually in front of the radiator in the air flow to help keep cool.
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:14

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:14
Ops the RedArcs are IP68 rated.
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Follow Up By: Member - Serendipity(WA) - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:19

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:19
thanks for that Olcoolone

I was not too sure on the Redarc so really I should have looked it up.




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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 22:27

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 22:27
Serendipity,

"I have seen someone run the heat sensor cable to the grill to it will stay cool."

I hope you set them straight, mate. It's a silly thing to do. The temp sensor is supposed to sense the temperature of the BATTERY so the charger can give a temperature compensated charge.

By all means keep the body of the unit cool, but having the temp sensor in the airstream at the grill will tell the charger that the hot battery is cool. That could result in a cooked battery.

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FrankP

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Follow Up By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:42

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 11:42
That someone is me...the sensor under the grill............my reasons

The Ctek is under the bonnet..the sensor was placed on the battery next to the + terminal ( as per install instructions)......the result was that the unit never charged from the alternator whist driving because the sensor under bonnet temp was always too high

I shifted the sensor to the grill and all works sweet.....NOW My theory vs yours of cooking the battery because of what I did

Yes the unit is meant to reduce/alter the charge based on the battery temp (not the charger unit temp)....and so give a temperature compensated charge...I agree BUT

Under the bonnet at the recomended site was always too high so the charger was never going to charge........shifting the sensor allowed charge (and yes not temp compensated...I agree)

NOW shifting the ctek to a cooler place near the grill as some have suggested achieves nothing...if the sensor is still in its recomended position (at the battery)...it will still shut down

So my sensor stays at the grill and the charger maintains the battery...so far so good...and no cooked battery

QUERY: 1) with the charging system under original manufacturing and unaltered ...is there a temp sensor somewhere that reduces the charge voltage to the start battery

If so then the start battery would never get a charge...simply because the under bonnet temp is always too high.....(based on the temp sensor setting of the ctek charger)

so is the temp sensor on the ctek charger set too high?

real can of worms in my opinion and whilst my second battery may not be managed exactly as I would like under a temperature compensated charger at least it is charging........and to date it is not cooked.......



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Follow Up By: scandal - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 16:42

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 16:42
Toyota changed the alternator outputs from around 2005, my Cruiser puts out 14.2 volts at the main battery, I found this out AFTER I spent money on a booster diode :(
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Reply By: HarryH - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:21

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 20:21
I've got the Redarc bcdc1240 mounted under the bonnet and it works great, the Redarc bcdc chargers are all sealed so are water & dust proof. As stated some people mount them on a bracket in front of the radiator. I got mine off ebay for about $400 including cable and fuses. In my opinion Redarc is as good as or superior to anything on the market and they are Australian owed & made- so that makes your decision easy :)
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Reply By: Mick O - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 21:53

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 21:53
I have been punishing my Redarc 1240'and the BMS system for over three years now and they haven't missed a beat. Very happy and the Solar function is fantastic.

Write up on both here;

Redarc review


Cheers Mick.



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Reply By: Member - bungarra (WA) - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 22:12

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 22:12
My ctek is under the bonnet and originally the temp sensor cable was on top of the battery next to the + terminal as its purpose is to monitor the battery temp to manage charging rates, not the temp of the device itself.

Result was the under bonnet temp was too high and the charger shut down!

So I routed the temp sensor to the front grill all sweet.....works a treat......its coupled to s solar panel as well as the alternator and sorts itself out which charge source it uses.
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Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 22:16

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 22:16
2517
NO to DC/DC units in engine bay.

It's not much good having a Redarc which has a fan if it is trying to cool itself with engine bay heat of 70C or more. The difference between the developed heat of charging and the air taken in by the fan to cool it would be very little, therefore no cooling will be happening.

Redarc not last long!

The Redarc fan would be to cool the internals while drawing in COOL air from somewhere other than an engine bay.

Then Redarc last long time!

The Ctek derates as it gets hot and so mounting it in an engine bay will make sure it is hot so it can't deliver it's intended output. May be very ineffective depending on circumstances.
On another forum, a BT50 owner asked the same questions re a Ctek and after being told no in engine bay he tested to see if the advice was right. He found the Ctek only delivered 30% of expected output when hot in engine bay and full output when cold.

If the aux battery is in the engine bay and will normally use the same charging profile as the crank battery then why have a DC/DC unit when the alternator will do it anyway??????
It is not as though you have long resistive cable runs to consider.

Having the solar is a good thing and will keep things charged when engine is off. Many people have a suitable capacity system for the maintenance of the aux battery.

If the alt ever stops working you can use the solar to run the vehicle and maintain charge while you drive to get help.

Many people are drawn into the need for a DC/DC unit when it may not be needed at all. They do have their special situations of use and do a good job, it's poses the question, do you really need one.
You are going to have a solenoid battery system to run the DC/DC from the alt anyway. Maybe manual or VSR type. Just use it to connect the batteries.

The Solar will have it's reg, preferably MPPT.

If the DC/DC was going in a trailer/caravan then different story.

Cheers
Ross M

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Follow Up By: HarryH - Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 23:11

Monday, Apr 22, 2013 at 23:11
I suggest you re read the post- Redarc NO FAN!
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:27

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:27
Have to disagree Ross about the need for a DC-DC charger, DC-DC charging will help all installations in achieving maximum battery charge and life.

DC-DC charging is just the next phase of evolution much the same as once you use to write a letter and post it and now you send an email.

You spend upwards of $200+ on a battery..... a solenoid is going to set you back $100-$250 and a DC-DC charger costs $350+..... so end of the day you're talking $100 - $250 more for something better that can produce up to 30% more capacity out of your battery.

People spend big money on aux lights, big wheels and intercooler kits but forget the poor old aux battery....... they are happy to throw a few $$$ at this and that gizmo just for the hell of it.

Most vehicles from 2005 need a DC-DC charger as their charge rates are very low.

Do you have a DC_DC charger and have you used one.... or olny read about them?
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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:58

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:58
Yes, I'm with Olcoolone on this.


Direct alternator charging is simple constant-voltage charging only marginally better than the old dynamo+mechanical regulator which was also constant-voltage. A quality DC-DC charger is multistage which will provide a better charge and longer battery life.


The new alternator systems controlled by the engine management system are a disadvantage to auxiliary battery charging due to controlled lower voltage. Most auxiliary batteries are AGM type requiring a different charging protocol to the flooded charging battery for optimum performance. These issues are overcome by a DC-DC charger which also incorporates the necessary battery isolation function. Extended cable length is not the only reason to consider DC-DC charging modules.


Sure, simple parallel charging has worked and will continue to do so to a limited degree, but for an optimum charging system use DC-DC.
Cheers
Allan

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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 21:19

Wednesday, Apr 24, 2013 at 21:19
I upgraded my dual battery system a couple of years ago to a DC-DC charger after reading a post of the benefits from Olcoolone on another forum.
As a result my second battery (AGM) held a better charge and capacity so also agree that they are beneficial

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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:17

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:17
I mounted my Redarc BCDC1220 just inside the firewall in the cabin. In nice cool air and with very little extra cable length. Even if it could take the engine bay temperature, there is no need to stress it.
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Allan

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Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 09:14

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 09:14
Before someone points out that my cabin location of the BCDC1220 does not reflect the temperature of the auxiliary battery in the engine bay I would point out that I have installed thermal insulation and ventilation for the engine bay batteries. Not perfect perhaps but hopefully good enough.


When the auxiliary battery in the engine bay next needs replacing I will consider using a flooded or hybrid battery in that location. It would have the added advantage of being a perhaps better cranker backup.


I have a second AGM auxiliary battery in the Troopy cabin area with its own BCDC1220. Both auxiliaries are relay-connected in parallel when the ignition is off.
Cheers
Allan

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Reply By: Sand Man (SA) - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:41

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:41
I have a D250S Dual, but would not consider it suitable for mounting in the engine bay.
As the connection points are exposed they can not be considered waterproof.

They are a great unit but are best suited for mounting inside a vehicle or camper trailer/van, or other compartment protected from the weather.

Bill


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Reply By: Thinkin - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:49

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 07:49
From the feedback on this topic one would think the the manufacturers of these products should be more informative in the correct fitting instructions of their products.

It's obvious that if not fitted correctly it could be a waste of money or at worst damage the product.

Whats with the manufacturers if they don't spell out fully the fitting requirements?
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Follow Up By: olcoolone - Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:35

Tuesday, Apr 23, 2013 at 08:35
Have a look at this article on RedArcs website.....

http://www.redarc.com.au/handy-hints/tech_tips/one_bcdc_for_two_batteries_in_different_locations/

Also have a look under their "handy hints", "Forum" and "News" links..... heaps of useful information.
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