The legalities of roadside/free camping and alcohol consumption.

Yes olcoolone it does seem stupid. I thought however that if you had the car keys in your possession regardless of whether you were behind the wheel, so to speak, then you were in charge of the vehicle...

If that is correct I could be charged with DUI if I were sitting in my own house with the keys hanging on a nail or in a draw and I had sufficient blood alcohol reading.

With respect J&R, the only part of that post that has any merit is the third point and even then you'd need to be in the driver's seat and trying to start the vehicle.

Not quite they still have to prove reasnable intent to drive.
If you have a set up camp then they couldnt.
You just in the drivers seat could well be even if your asleep
If your in any other seat its impossible to drive no matter where the keys are

Exactly.

My late brother was a policeman and i think he was only half joking when he told me once that basically, everything is illegal. If you behave in a reasonable fashion most of the time you will be ok, if you draw attention to yourself, trouble will surely find you.

Cheers

A mate of mine has told me the same.......it doesn't matter what your doing, there is a law against it if you do it wrong. A lot of it just comes down to common sense and attitude. Both yours and the coppers.

Cheers

Tim, thank goodness for an authoritative response. Mind you someone will attest that their brother-in-law was done for having alcohol on their breath whilst washing the car in his driveway!! LOL
If some of the earlier replies were correct then you could get done sitting in the passenger seat whilst your wife drove you home from the pub. C'mon already.

This only a small part of the act, you can still be prosecuted with "in control of a motor vehicle" on public or private property....... you are not legally able to put in motion a motor vehicle if you have been drinking.

Same as you can be charged with "discharge of a fire arm" on private property....... it comes down to what and why something happened.

What is a road related area?

About 4 years ago the removed a lot of the conditions surrounding when someone could be charged with an offence.

We have seen it happen a lot in work related laws.

There is no nice way to put it, you are wrong.

The only driving offences which exist which do not require it to be on a road/road related area involve either death or grievous bodily harm. (Neg drive death/danger drive death).

If you are charged with one of these and you are high range at the time it becomes an aggravated offence (aggravated neg drive death).

All other driving offences contain the proof of road or road related area. (see definition below).

The definition of drive does include a phrase including the words "control of" however that was tested and from case law it means "in control of the steering or propulsion".

If what your saying is true, I can be done while I am sitting in my lounge room with my car keys drinking a beer.

Show me legislation that states otherwise or take my word. I am not posting a resume however I will tell you that this is my bread and butter.


Sourced from the Road Rules 2008 (NSW Only)
13 What is a road related area

(1) A road related area is any of the following:

(a) an area that divides a road,

(b) a footpath or nature strip adjacent to a road,

(c) an area that is not a road and that is open to the public and designated for use by cyclists or animals,

(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.

i seem to remember that the term "or elsewhere" was added to the definition of where a drink drive offence could be commited .given the police the right to test and charge people on the water ways.
this change then gave them the ability to test and charge people on private property
brian

2weis, I am not posting my opinion or vague thoughts. This is legislation, can you see the term "or else where" anywhere in the legislation? It is very specific. Testing can only be done on private property that is defined as above "open to or used by the public etc etc" meaning that places such as car parks are valid locations to breath test.

Maritime law is completely different. Without researching legislation on that, I have no idea of the ins and outs. I believe on a vessel you may very well face the possibility of being tested if you are in charge of the boat even if it is moored or anchored. I don't pretend to know this legislation because I don't know it.

Tim

Tim

There is another post here saying: "we could never live for more than an hour without breaking some law"

While the situation is ludicrous and maybe in fact true wouldn't it then come down to the intent to do something wrong or the like. Wouldn't it be tossed out and the officer may get a "posting to Siberia"?

Courts aren't stupid. Maybe too lenient sometimes, but not stupid and not to made a mockery out of. Mate I do not really know how to say it. I hope you get my "intent" Hi!

Phil

tim
copy and paste of qld road rule 7.5.1 (im sure other state are similar)
i havent counted the number of times the term elsewhere is mentioned but i think it is in there somewhere and this is not maritime legislation
hope this makes up for my previous sin of giving an opinion


7.5.1 Authority to breath test
Section 80(2) of the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act (TORUM Act) provides the authority for an officer to require a person to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test if the officer has found such person, or suspects on reasonable grounds that such person, was during the last preceding three hours:

(i) driving a motor vehicle, tram or train on a road or elsewhere;

(ii) attempting to put in motion a motor vehicle, tram or train on a road or elsewhere;

(iii) in charge of a motor vehicle, tram or train on a road or elsewhere; or

(iv) driving or in charge of or attempting to put in motion a vessel being used or apparently about to be used in navigation.

Section 80(2A) of the TORUM Act provides that an officer may require a person to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test where a motor vehicle, tram, train or vessel is involved in an incident resulting in injury to or death of any person or damage to property if the officer suspects, on reasonable grounds, that such person was:

(i) driving or attempting to drive the motor vehicle, tram or train on a road or elsewhere;

(ii) in charge of the motor vehicle, tram or train on a road or elsewhere; or

(iii) driving or in charge of or attempting to drive the vessel;

at the time of the incident.

7.5.5 Breath test result below relevant alcohol limit
PROCEDURE

When the result of a breath test indicates that the concentration of alcohol in the subject person's breath is not over the relevant alcohol limit the subject person cannot be again required to provide a specimen of breath for a breath test nor be required to provide a specimen of breath for analysis or a specimen of blood for a laboratory test based on such breath test.




Issue 18 - December 2011

Last updated 14/11/2012
i
brian

All you had to say was Queensland was different and quote your legislation. What I quoted was clearly from NSW hence the "(NSW)".

You appear to know a little about QLD legislation and you could have answered the original post by talking about the exemptions to breath testing in QLD specifically for people who are parked on the side of the road?

As far as driving on private property goes (elsewhere) it begs another question as to what power of entry police have to enter your property?

PJR you are spot on the money, it is up to each individual officer to exercise discretion, as we all know common sense is not as common as it could be. I believe there are specific exemptions written into legislation in QLD for situations such as being camped on the side of the highway but I will let someone (maybe brian????) source that....

Tim

In Victoria the offence of exceeding the prescribed concentration of alcohol can happen anywhere. Doesn't have to be a highway/road/road related area. If you are driving on the lawn in your back yard in your car, you can be asked to do a breath test.

homer
i agree with you but at this stage i am still trying to find the act to support it.
but as the question was from qld i thought my previous answer would be enough
brian

Dont forget coppers can do what they like and charge you with whatever they want. .........
Wheather it gets through court is entire ly another matter

And police are not idiots. To book Jack for camping where Jack shouldn't have tells me there is more to it. We don't hear about Jack being abusive when being given some polite advice to move further into the bush. Nah!!! Jack won't tell you that. He is a little darling.

When ever I hear of people getting booked for such trivial issues or even for having a swig of the coffee while driving I cannot help but ponder "I wonder what was behind it?.

They also don't want to get a posting to Siberia for being a "public nuisance" and wasting their station supervisor's hard earned budget. Especially when a great deal of it goes to things like searches, safety lectures, Police Boys Club and school visits etc.

No I am not a policeman and I wouldn't be one for quids considering how some people on this forum say about them. Not on your nellie.

Phil

This is in relation to a charge of "In Charge of a Motor Car whilst under the influence" not in relation to an .05 charge..different kettle of fish.

Cheers

the simple fact of being in the vehicle, in THE DRIVERS SEAT.
and under the influence of alcohol will get you done on DUI.

keys dont have to be in the ignition.
the vehicle can be in park, or handbrake on, or in gear.
you will still get done for DUI.

a friend got done like this.
just sitting in the drivers seat was all he did.

Rot is it well hop in yr car with a skinful and see where the rot sets in

Mapesy, to avoid "opening a can of worms" never raise the subjects of Law, Tyres, or Electricity. LOL

...or ask which is the best 4WD vehicle! ;)

If you're asleep in your van...keep the door locked and tell them to pi** off.....lol

Fair dinkum....if you are sitting in your van...blind drunk....it's quite obvious you are not driving....and it would have to be asked, why would a copper be even anywhere near you in the 1st place ??