Help with frog identification - Kennedy Range WA

Submitted: Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 18:13
ThreadID: 102785 Views:2140 Replies:7 FollowUps:13
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Hopefully this isn't regarded as off topic.

We were staying at Temple Gorge Campground in the Kennedy range National Park in Gascoyne region in WA a couple of days ago and after rain, we found a little frog sitting in the dark on our awning mat.

I would love some help in identifying him from any 'frog experts' please.
Hope these photos I took are ok.


regards,
Heather MG
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Reply By: Bob R4 - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 18:57

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 18:57
Hi Heather,
You may find this little guy on the frogs australia website. A lot of frogs have large variations of colouration within the species, so appearances don't always give a positive identification. If on the website you investigate species in the area of discovery of your specimen, you can often find a match, but sometimes a few different species may appear to match. The one feature which will confirm identifiation is the sound they make. On a lot of the species, if you click into the field guide section there is often a recording you can play of the species, and if it matches the frog you have found, provided you have been able to hear their voice, you will be able to confirm identification.
Hope this helps
Cheers, Bob
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Follow Up By: Bob R4 - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:01

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:01
Should have said this one looks like a burrowing frog (as opposed to a tree frog with suction pads on their feet. Burrowing frogs have pointed toes and tiny claws as this guy appears to have, and helps with categorizing for identification..
Cheers, Bob
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Reply By: Member - John and Val - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:09

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:09
Hi Heather,

Dont know much about frogs so can't help with identification, sorry. However I had a quick look at the Kennedy Ranges management plan - it says that little is known about frogs in the park. If you have a look at the Atlas of Living Australia here you may be able to contribute your photos. You never know you may have found something special.

No way would I see your question as off topic either!

Cheers,

Val
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Reply By: The Explorer - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:30

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:30
Hi

Pretty sure it is a frog of the genus Neobatrachus. It appears to be a juvenile and the sand doesn't help with making a positive ID. There are several possible species for that area, though a lack of records of most specifically in the Kennedy Range.

Its either Neobatrachus sutor (Shoemaker Frog) or Neobatrachus wilsmorei (Plonking Frog) from what I can figure...pattern is more suggestive of Neobatrachus sutor (Shoemaker Frog) (which is the only frog listed as being recorded in that area on the
NatureMap Database ...will run with that.

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:07

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:07
i agree neaobatrachus

Im at work but when i get back ill look it up in the wa museaum book frogs of wa
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Follow Up By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Sunday, Jun 23, 2013 at 21:27

Sunday, Jun 23, 2013 at 21:27
I have had a couple of emails, one from the Amphibian Research Centre telling me it is one of the neobatrachus so it seems you are correct, and another from the Fauna department of WA DEC technical staff who think it is a tawny trilling frog (Neobatrachu fulvus). They sent me some links which I am yet to have a look at as we have been out at Mt Augustus and only arrived in Exmouth today where we have internet signal for the first time in almost a week.
Thanks for your information..

regards,

Heather
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jun 23, 2013 at 21:53

Sunday, Jun 23, 2013 at 21:53
Hello

I did consider Neobatrachus fulvus as an option but this species is characterised by "skin and body extends across to knee so that the groin is indistinct" (Tyler & Doughty 2009). Your photos do not illustrate this, as far as I can see (you can see the frog's knee for starters),..but I'm just going off photos in the book and yours..they look different.

I have seen a N. sutor....never seen a N. fulvis. so no 'expert" but never any doubt it was a Neobatrachus.

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:44

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 19:44
Should have also stated that the campground is not close to a watercourse and he appeared to have come from under the red sandy earth at the campsite so I thought maybe a burrowing frog of some kind..
I realise the sand stuck to him doesn't help with ID however did not want to touch him as human hands and the germs they carry are not so good for frogs.
I might try to email the DEC website and include a photo or two.

Meanwhile thanks for the replies and keep them coming.

regards,
Heather
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:25

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 10:25
Hi

Hopefully you can get a second opinion from the DEC, though if they call it something other than Neobatrachus sutor (Shoemaker Frog) I will be surprised. Having said that I have been known to get some IDS wrong. Some species are very similar in external appearance and many are best identified from their calls which makes it a bit hard when you catch one as they tend to remain pretty quiet :)

Cheers
Greg
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Reply By: The Explorer - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 21:10

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 21:10
...another good frog ID website (for WA)

Alcoa Frog Watch

Kennedy Ranges is in the "arid zone" so click on that tab and have a look (keeping in mind the "arid zone" is huge and not all frogs are everywhere)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 21:32

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 21:32
Thanks Greg,
I have joined the frogs.org.au community so maybe someone on there will help me.
I will also have a look at both the websites you mentioned when I get time.
regards,
Heather
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Reply By: Life Member - Phil B (WA) - Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:56

Saturday, Jun 15, 2013 at 23:56
Hi Heather

I don't know much about frogs so I can't help with an ID - but last year I was travelling with friends on the west side of the Kennedy Range and we had rain just at dusk. This little frog turned up while we sat around the fire. It seemed attracted to the fire so my mate doing what he thought was the right thing, picked it up and put it in grass away from the fire. He then washed his hands because he said the frog was very ‘wet’.

That night he was violently ill and spending a lot of time dashing off behind the bushes. Eventually we got him to Carnarvon badly dehydrated. They said he more than likely ingested some 'toxins' off the frog.

Its took him days to recover and get his strength back.

cheers
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Follow Up By: The Explorer - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:47

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 00:47
..More likely a bad batch of Tawny Port I would say :)

Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 07:30

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 07:30
Thanks Phil.
However I was thinking the same Greg, or maybe food poisoning from food not kept at the safe temperature.
In my drinking days I had more than one episode of poisoning from (drinking copious quantities of) contents!
I would think that the frog would be in more danger from being handled by humans which is why I didn't pick up the one we saw!
cheers,
Heather
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Phil B (WA) - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:07

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:07
Hi Greg and Heather

I wasn't induced by alcohol or food, we all ate the same and drinking was just social.

When he carted him to Carnarvon Hosp he provided a urine sample which was almost black - this had us panicking about possible kidney failure and RFDS flights.

They checked - no blood was present and suggested he had an amoebic reaction.

We were then allowed to drive him home, he was so ill he didn't have the concentration to drive. After a few days the symptoms past and he started to recover.

cheers



If it wasn't the frog/toadlet then what caused such a reaction? I've never seen someone so ill so quickly.

One other thing I recall about the frog/toadlet was it didn't hop it 'crawled' around and it was very small -about a 20 cent piece.

cheers

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Follow Up By: Member-Heather MG NSW - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:12

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:12
Wow, that is interesting Phil. I'm glad I didn't touch it then.
The frog we saw was only small too, however it did hop because my husband saw it jump a few times and in the dark thought it may be a mouse before we put the light on it.
I emailed WA DEC and attached photos so maybe they will get back to me with some information.

cheers,
Heather
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Follow Up By: Life Member - Phil B (WA) - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:26

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 08:26
Hi Heather,

It would be interesting to see if DEC can ID your frog.

Re my mate - he is travelling at the moment, otherwise I would get more specifics from him.

One thing is sure he was a very sick 'little petunia'.

cheers
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:01

Sunday, Jun 16, 2013 at 12:01
We dont have toxic frogs in australia. Certainly nothing with the power to lay someone out just by touching it.
Even cane toad toxin in no where near that powerfull
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Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Monday, Jun 17, 2013 at 17:25

Monday, Jun 17, 2013 at 17:25
Hi Heather, just tried to send MM..didnt seem to go...we are in Mokey Mia..all good.
cheers.......oldbaz.
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Follow Up By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Monday, Jun 17, 2013 at 17:33

Monday, Jun 17, 2013 at 17:33
You can see how Bundy improves my spelling...:))))).....oldbaz.
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