Is discount fuel the same quality as other fuel station

With regard to diesel, I think you will find that Australia no longer refines it and my understanding is that it is all imported. The different brand additives are added here.
I stand to be corrected though.

I'll correct myself this time sorry.....

http://transition.accc.gov.au/content/item.phtml?itemId=892856&nodeId=327dddf017dcc13e491bf3ce2badefaf&fn=Fuel%20facts:%20Diesel.pdf

Most but not all of Australian fuel comes from Singapore irrespective of brand - that is the base fuel without additives. Once the fuel arrives here is goes to the respective fuel companies who ad their own additives etc and then ist is marketed as BP, Caltex, Coles, Woollies, United etc.

So the base fuel is basically the same - additives may be different.

The issue is not the quality of the fuel as refined but storage management once it is here.

Garry

I can't believe how intelligent people get sucked in by so called supermarket discounts.
If you want fuel prices to drop, stop patronising supermarket owned fuel outlets. Once they have crucified all the independents, watch them run rampant!

Hi

A very small minority (the best you could hope for I think) of people boycotting supermarket owned fuel outlets won't result in a drop in fuel price. As far as supermarkets go the best option (taking into account all costs, convenience, product range etc.) for most people (I suspect) are the big 2 ...so why would you not use the fuel discount voucher if you happen to acquire one? Not that it amounts to much anyway..you would save more money on fuel by making sure your tyres were at "correct" pressure and taking it easy on the accelerator. Makes you feel good getting a discount though.:)

Cheers
Greg

Shaker
You may well say patronise the independants.
Coffs Harbour has the dearest fuel in the country.
Never see a caravan filling up at the independants here, they just drive another 60 k. north to Grafton and find they save 10cents a lt.
No intelligence here its been common knowledge for years.
No cheap tuesdays ever occur here.

Whats the fuel worth in Coffs?
People say here is the most expensive (Wagga) with diesel about 150-153 a litre.
Again no cheap Tuesday.
Or any other day for that matter.

ain't that the funniest thing ive ever heard.. ha ha

you run a business to give fuel discounts..
common people you pay for that at the supermarket, no business in THEIR RIGHT MIND GIVES OUT FREE HANDOUTS.......ha ha ha

its their way of getting you to use THEIR SPECIFIC WOOLWORTHS and COLES branded FUEL servo's....
another words.. shell is pretty much in with coles..
and Caltex is in with woolworths.........
hello ........ hello........

this aint competition at all..
they don't give a rats about the customer..
its all about their market share..

ooh and look at that.. their quarterly profits keep rising.. and share price while were at it..

they don't care about saving you a few dollars..
its market share and domination, its called whos gives a damn about the customer, we want global domination..

you only have to look at the milk and bread war..
how can a dairyfarmer survive when coles and woollies sell the milk for a dollar a litre..
THEY CANT
and then look at the dollar for a loaf of bread..
the farm gate price of commodities such as wheat have suffered.
who can run a farm when the big multi nationals are destroying the industry as a whole.

you only got to see the major supermarket recently heavily fined for the bread baked in store...... ITS NOT
ITS PARTLY BAKED OVERSEAS.. AND THEN FINISHED OFF in a aussie bakery, soo basically not even AUSTRALIAN WHEAT..

if you think the supermarkets are doing the fuel discounts out of good will...
YOU ARE A FOOL.
its corporate greed at its finest..
good old days are gone of looking after aussie companies and suppliers, its market domination and who gives a rats about the aussie suppliers, whether fresh or other products..

sadly the supermarkets, have way too much money..
and their false advertising gets customers early with their
"I love you " slogan or "down down, prices are down"
in the end we all loose out..

only need to look at the woolworths select can range..
meant to be a premium product, ha ha ha
every damn can in that range is ALL IMPORTED CRAP, NOT ONE BIT OF AUSSIE PRODUCE..
soo tell me now you think they care.......

HELL NO

Woolworth's "I love you" campaign makes me want to vomit!

Has anybody noticed that since they have crucified all the greengrocers, grocers, butchers etc etc that all of sudden they have greatly reduced their range of products, trying to force their own brands down our throats.
They charge their suppliers thousands of dollars for product position, who do you think pays for that?

If you think you are getting reamed with fuel prices now, wait until they have finished with their campaign against the independent operators.

You would have be a naïve fool to think that they are giving 16 cents a litre off out of the kindness of their hearts!

We need a nationwide campaign to boycott Shell & Caltex to get back to reasonable fuel pricing.

We have a 25 cent a litre discount voucher. Buggered if I am NOT going to use it. That's $37.5 in our pockets. We don't shop for discounts but why not use it if it comes your way for just doing your normal shopping. Where possible we buy our fruit and vegetables at the markets. We also avoid like a plague any home brands. We always buy bread at the independant bakery, not the supermarket. It is almost impossible to buy all Australian made but what we can we do.

I am not a fan of ethanol additives so we try to avoid them. But if that's all there is then so be it. We just hope that the stuff is not lessening the life of our cars.

We tend to bypass the discount fuel places. Sorry but to be cheap something must be missing. All be it lower quality fuel, no good or helpfull additives like a cleaner/detergent, no customer service, no shop, no fast food, I don't know. But there must be something not supplied to allow them to provide a cheaper product. Maybe they don't clean the tanks or have crappy filters. I just ask WHY and move on.

How many have sat behind a car going up hill and found that it STINKS. What is that? Tuning or lead free or ethanol?

Phil

Mountianman it's good to see there is someone else who thinks like me and can see through the maze of mirrors and smoke.

What you say is 110% true and correct.

How can we have two of the largest companies in Australia control six of the biggest fastest moving consumer market sectors in Australia...... Food, Fuel, Alcohol, Pubs, Pokies and Hardware...... and they are both trying hard to enter the 9 billion Dollar pharmaceutical market....... and then you have their insurance and credit card arms.

The funny thing is they use strategies and proven tactics to play with peoples mind to get you to buy more, this includes colours, words and placement of stock ..... and most don't know this.

The other thing people don't know is how much data they collect and how they use it to their benefit, Flybuys and specific reward cards collect so much data it's not funny ( you don't think your fuel discount docket is'nt linked to your original purchase and YOU), and yes the do customer profiling...... ask some one for their drivers licence number and date of birth and they get all protective BUT the amount of data these companies collect on an individual far out ways those two.

Mind conditioning is another great tool they use, this would have to be their number one tool in getting customers in, buy and spend more and keeping them loyal for generations to come.

Yes of course they are only looking out for our and their suppliers well being and benefit........ aren't they?..... what a nice bunch of caring non selfish non money hungry people........ fancy that; someone who really cares....... makes me want to go to their supermarket and buy some of their homebrand stuff, get my car filled up on the way home at their servo and take mu family out to one of their pubs for tea and a flutter on the pokies.

But this is no different to what we are seeing in some other market sectors like fishing/boating, recreational (inc. 4x4ing), sporting and the automotive arena...... a few players dominating big market shares.

Short term gains can be long term looses.....

Any regulation of the big 2 would need to be done by the government.
Suggestions of a public boycott (that would have any effect) wont ever happen. Most people will buy the cheapest fuel they can find (subject to their specific circumstances), they don't care about anything else....and I doubt anyone really thinks that any supermarket "cares" as suggested by some..not sure where that came from.

Cheers
Greg

Too true Greg.

They call it "lip service".

Two sons have bakeries and it's amazing who walks out of the supermarket next door with supermarket "baked fresh" bread. Yet when chatting away from the bakery they hear them say "always buy fresh bakery bread". Even our neighbours right here say the same. But when it comes right down to it they chicken out to save a few cents.

Phil

PJR
Wow this has been a good discusion.
Are the boys tradesmen bakers or franchisees ?

I agree that market domination is not a good thing (the lack of fuel discounting/competition in many areas where Coles Shell and Woolies Caltex are the major suppliers is a good indicator) but the catch all in regard to cheap bread and milk is simply wrong. The ACCC investigated Coles cheap milk and found the price was determined by Coles paying processors less and lowering their own margins. In any case it's a tiny percentage of the total milk market. No doubt having low priced options for some staples is a boon to poor families.

Both full Bakers and Pastry Chef's and franchisees. Made me a fridge full of éclairs one day. Tool a month to clean the flour up.

What about that supermarket mob who tell us the bread is baked freshly each day. Implying that it is made every day when in fact the dough was made days before and the bread is only baked in the morning. The ACCC is taking them to court over it.

Cheats and that is what someone previously was saying. Yep they cheat and we should have enough nouse to know that they do and buy accordingly. Too many are "led by the nose".

That goes for those who drop in on the cheap fuel places. We got two full tanks (215 ltes) once of crap diesel. But it was 300 kms back to where we bought it. Ahhh couldn't be bothered. That's why we have stuck with the main players. Good luck if you get good fuel. I am not going to take the chance again.

Phil

I was a third generation baker/Pastrycook.
We had shops in Manly and Dee why.
Manly at one time had 18 cake shops until packet cake mixes arrived and the lady of the house ditched the cake shop and bought the premixed variety. One by one we all went broke. That was our 15 years in that trade gone
Brother and I got out and bought a milk run. Ha ha, seven days a week delivered two tons of milk in bottles to customer's doorsteps every day including honey, eggs, quality cheeses, yogurt and juices.
Wore out a pair of runners a fortnight.
Nah, the householder would prefer to go to the shops and we were glad to say goodby how ever made some good aquantances to this day.
Brother and I became Paramedics and have never looked back.
Life is like that.

Not the Dee Why Pie Shop!!!!!

Well, it is no longer there or the one next door to the Dee Why Hotel.
However they hold good memories.

ever noticed how the discounted servo prices are a few cents higher than the independants most days of the week anyway? So that $200 you saved, isnt really a saving if you are paying more to begin with. I have a BP around the corner from home and a 7-11 around the corner from work that are always a couple of cents lower that the discounted servos, so I buy there during the week and save my discounts for the road trips.

The closest outlets are a BP (2K), 7-11 (8K) and two Caltex (4K and 8K) stations. The BP and 7-11 are usually the dearest at around 3-4 cents more than the two Caltex stations which are usually the same.

Where would you buy fuel in our case?

When on the road we go Caltex and then whatever is convenient or in a lot of cases the ONLY outlet.

Phil

To answer your question Phil, I would buy the BP every time cos that's what i buy. 4c a litre dearer, who cares? My Cruiser carries 275lt, @ 4c lt that is a saving of what, about $11. Not a saving worth worrying about on $400.00 worth of fuel.

Peter

What I do not understand with shopper dockets is why the basic discount has not gone up from 4c since they were introduced.

If I recall correctly the discounts were introduced around 1987 and the discount was 4c and petrol about 80c a litre dependant on where you were.

Now that petrol/diesel is up around $1.50 a litre some 26 years later the basic discount is still only 4c.

I do not recall any inquiry to understand why this is so - the basic discounts should be linked to either the real CPI or the actual price of fuel.

Hi

The price of fuel is made up of several components. I have no idea what fuel retailers add onto wholesale + tax price but this is what must be considered when determining the scale of discount...not the total price i.e. the profit margin may not have changed much over the years despite the price increase...but then maybe it has?

Cheers
Greg

I like the Caltex just down the road when home. As I used to like the BP which was closer. Then the nice bloke had the local BP franchise was put under heaps of pressure to up his franchise fees so he sold out and us like a lot of the older locals never went back. I may be a major city but there are still a lot of us who like the bush way of life. The next closer was the Caltex near a 4WD shop. We also know the staff there. As a known local it is nice to be able to move the car away from the bouser, park it and then walk in and pay. So that's where we now buy our fuel. Courtesy and trust go a long way with me. The bloke who cleans up will actually stop and talk to you. All part of the friendly approach.

That's what they used to do at the BP. They use to have the local scout wash, a sausage sizzle for the junior footy and even a cake stall for the CWA. Now you are lucky if the change isn't thrown back at you when you don't use the credit card. Sullen lot at the BP.

Despite what people thought that I was getting at before, our choice has absolutely nothing to do with price. Rather trust from mates, courtesy, customer service and access. The discounts are a bonus. Not shopped for. Just a bonus. And a smile is right up there.

Phil

"it's all got to meet the same standards"
Gday Richard, that's where I run into trouble with a diesel.
Aus Standards say Cetane Number has to be 46 or above.
My wife's VW specifies 50+ cetane and my Landcruiser 48+ so the 46 is not good enough.
BP state their normal diesel is 51 cetane and BP ultimate is 52 so that's what I buy. Shell is 49. I can't find info from anyone else. I emailed Caltex who simply stated it had to be above 46. Couldn't tell me what cetane the Vortex diesel is.

Good point Phil, we haven't really haven't noticed any difference in fuel quality in our 200 series and we have filled up at some strange places. The only problem we are having is fuel filters only last about 15-20k before the restriction light comes on..... may have something to do with the chip

We had this problem but with petrol..... seemed every new car we bought for the last 5 years needed 98 minimum octane fuel, we have solved this problem by having all diesels.

When our new Ranger had an issue that Ford could not workout they suggested we only fill up at BP servos...... in the end it was a faulty crank angle sensor. This is a Ford recommendation.

BTW how is you 200 series coming along and are you turning it into a two seater?

thank you that make a lot of sense

Bp cetane in Perth for standard diesel is 46.

Colder weather requires a higher cetane according to bp, so they so not use additives to boost cetane where it's is not required.....that was from bp.

I use woolworths vortex diesel....it's delivered by cootes in wa and its the same vortex diesel that goes to Caltex....I have a mate that delivers for cootes.

Brett...

Shell Geelong & Mobil Altona still produce automotive & aircraft fuels and they both export out of Hoden dock in Yarraville & the Shell Corio facilities to interstate & mostly Pacific Island locations.

olcoolone....yeah the 200series now has most things done - bullbar, suspension, tyres, snorkel, spares, storage, roofrack, lighting.....but the 3 trips we planned for this year have been cancelled - health issues with myself (cervical radiculopathy) and my son (who has testicular cancer and is currently on chemo)....so I reckon our next trip will happen in November (12 months after buying the 200series!) and then we'll make up for lost trips!

Brett, its hard for most of us to get specific info for what's delivered locally, so you're lucky. But I'd expect the BP Ultimate diesel in WA would have the higher cetane number for those who need it. The Vortex diesel may well have the higher numbers but I couldn't get it confirmed when I tried.

It was your jerries - if it was from the servo, even with only 10l in the car it would have stopped soon after filling up. The fact that it stopped much later after putting the jerries in shows that they and the crud they already had in them was the culprit.

The 10 ltrs I put in the vehicle was to take me to the maximum allowed by woollies.....150 litres...7X20ltr near new plastic jerry cans =150ltrs. I put 60 ltrs weeks later from jerry cans (Caltex woollies) then filled up before driving home at Woollies Caltex in Vic country town....2 weeks later with fuel on 1/4...vehicle stopped. I definately was not jerry cans. Anyway,my choice, I don't use discount fuels any more. Mobil,BP or Shell for me.

I'm not sure but maybe it depends what part of the country your in and if the service station owner will only accept good quality fuel to supply to his customers. Not having a go at BP but I think they have good reason to warrant their fuel after causing so much trouble yrs ago with the low sulphur diesel they supplied that caused a hell of alot of diesel fuel pumps to fail on their customers vehicles . I think they lost quite a few customers they also had to recall some of their diesel engine oil which had the potential to call minor health problems back in 1999.

Caltex buying out BP would be news to the ACCC I'm sure Bruce.

You may well be right Bazooka but about 3 years ago Caltex bought out Ampol. All the Ampol garages and depots around here were rebranded Caltex. This is why I do not find it too far fetched.

The chap who told me was an employee of the BP depot operator so I assume he has some pretty secure inside knowledge and am therefore inclined to believe it.

Interestingly this now gives us 2 separate Caltex distributors here.

Cheers, Bruce.

Bruce,
I used to cart out of Caltex Kurnell and Banksmeadow, They took over Ampol about 10 years ago. Ampol was very small company compared to the likes of BP Shell Or Caltex. Caltex started to change the names of the Servos to Ampol to make it look more Aussie but changed there mined about six months later & wiped the Ampol name out.
Cheers Dave.

hi all
I have read every thread on this fuel topic and so decided to use google
I typed in to google search?
who owns bp in Australia
it came up with current info stating that in south Australia
the shahin family have bought a lot of the bp service stations but a lot are still owned by independent owners S .A is the only state where any take over of bp has occurred to the best of my knowledge but I might be wrong
google it as above and read it all for yourselves in black and white there's more clarity on google than what jo blogs said on here
cheers

"Takeovers" as big as Caltex buying out, or even getting a controlling interest in BP require approval by the ACCC Bruce. The last buyout of Mobil by 7Eleven is the most recent example that I can recall. It's possible that people at high levels are talking but my guess is that the market would know about any moves in that direction well before 99.99% of BP employees. Perhaps he means that BP has rationalised its outlets and some have been sold off?

You have probably hit the nail right on the head there Bazooka with that rationalisation thing.

The guy that owns this particular depot has another further up the line which acts as head office and several outlets either side of the Great Dividing Range. He has gone from BP to Caltex in one way or another. That is to say he was either coaxed by a better deal, jumped because the writing was on the wall or was pushed so to speak due to rationalisation. But his employee was the one who made the comment and I guess he would have gotten it from head office, whether or not it was true.

Actually it makes no difference to me either way as both are foreign companies, but BP does have some good products.

Cheers, Bruce.

Jim, I never fill up where a tanker is dropping a new lot of diesel (guess you don't either) due to stirring up the bulk tank and it's contents. Another is a few CRD vehicles fuelling up on the Sydney F3 I think it was (Caltex from memory?) had all sorts of issues and the "story" goes that the tankers dropping off diesel were being used to also deliver water when not delivering diesel????? This and poor storage is the biggest concern to all CRD vehicles because we believe we are buying at least a quality fuel from reputable sources. I keep a continuos record of every fill for my vehicle and always pay by credit card so I can back up my fuel purchases.
Just another perspective.

When I was carting fuel 15 years ago we would drop a b-double load of diesel, and then because we were coming home empty we were told to use the fire hose at the drop off point and hose both tanks out. Don't know why, just did as I was told.

Hi Jeff,
Same, same. Stay away when tankers are unloading although I must admit that its just too hard to get in the driveway anyway.

I also use credit cards for fuel ups, mainly American express IF there is no surcharge. But my reasons were mainly for points. I never thought of the record of purchases.
But to my way of thinking I am not sure of how you would go about apportioning blame for faulty fuel.
In both cases of fuel warning lights coming on I had travelled long distances and had refuelled on at least three occasions over a few days.
I now think that the fuel filter in my ute might be getting a build up over a period of time rather than just the one hit from a particular servo.
Regards
Jim

Hi Rosss,
That sort of backs up what Jeff was saying in the comment above about water contamination of tankers.
In my case the fuel filters were apparently black with whatever. Also apparently they are supposed to be white in colour according to the mechanic.

What I do hate however is that little jump of the heart when I look down and see the yellow light on, especially in the middle of the Barkley hwy.

A Mr Funnel is now on the wish list.
Regards
Jim

Ross,
I don't know who you worked for but there is no reason to hose out a fuel tanker. Could say more but wont

I read that toyota say in their manual to change the fuel filter when the light comes on to bad if your in the middle of nowhere I'd carry a spare just in case

Hi Batts,
I have not read or heard that. I spoke to a Toyota supervisor and mechanic from the dealership where the vehicle was purchased and they said plainly that Toyota leaves it to the vehicle owner to decide on replacement schedule. From my experience so far that will be every second service.

In the last instance when the warning light came on we continued driving for about 400klms until we reached Mt Isa dealership late afternoon.

Carrying a spare is probably the way to go just in case. But I am also grateful that the filter and warning light were doing their job.
Regards
Jim

Any dash light appearing in the middle of the Barkley is enough for your heart to jump. Not just the fuel one.
Stupid lights appear for to many different reasons nowadays any way.

I think that one is for the Ripley manual Dave. Perhaps they were going to use the tanker for milk deliveries the next day?