puncture repairs

Submitted: Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:20
ThreadID: 103335 Views:2083 Replies:11 FollowUps:16
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The other night I drove over a broken windscreen wiper arm with my front wheel, which flipped it up just nicely at an angle to piece right through my rear following tyre. Almost new BFG a/t, the thing just found a gap between the lugs, more or less in the middle of the tread. It has pushed through the steel belt with the effect that you can feel a few fibres/splinters of the metal through on the inside of the tread. The hole is about 10/12mm and I thought I'd be able to plug it and at least use as a 2nd spare but the tyre fitters just took one look and said: "new tyre". I am happy to buy the new tyre but is it worth trying to salvage the near new tyre?
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Reply By: putrol - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:56

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:56
tyre dealers wont fix a puncture for $20 when they can tell you its no good and sell you a tyre for $300 if its in the centre of the tyre just clean out the hole & push some string repairs into it if it still leaks take tyre off rim & put a mushroom style plug from the inside out I have done this for years with no issues & saved a fortune
this is the type of kit you needhttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/38-pcs-Tyre-Repair-Kit-Off-Road-Heavy-Duty-Puncture-Repair-/251138160596?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a790037d4
mushroom plugshttp://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tubeless-Tyre-Repair-Patch-45mm-mushroom-with-Wire-48Pc-Set-/290948291187?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43bdde9a73
AnswerID: 515111

Follow Up By: olcoolone - Monday, Jul 22, 2013 at 08:57

Monday, Jul 22, 2013 at 08:57
I don't think the tyre dealer is trying to rip anyone off.

It comes down to duty of care and their liability, if something did happen and it went legal the tyre place would've been better off giving away a new tyre for free..... even if it wasn't his fault and there was no liability the cost to the tyre place would be BIG.

I find most places are on the ball and are not trying to rip anyone off.

As you know we are all experts until something happens and it turns pear shaped.
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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:42

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:42
I don't think anyones trying to rip anyone off.
I wouldn't plug a 10 - 12mm hole either. Especially if it has broken a strand inside, in which case you're not allowed to plug it anyway.
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FollowupID: 794517

Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:59

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 10:59
Gday,
Bloody oath....I would. All the extreme safety mob will attack now but I reckon if you can plug it properly, why not?
Cheers
AnswerID: 515112

Reply By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:44

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 11:44
they were making a big play about the metal (only small splinters) poking through the inside but if I file it off, and anyway, it isn't touching anything but the air inside the tyre. Can't see any problem myself, even though it might not be quite as intact as it should be. I reckon it'll do for a spare at least. That's what those kits are for aren't they? Ok, ideally just a nail or screw puncture but i reckon I can fill that hole. Just thought I'd sound out some unbiased opinion. Cheers fellas.
AnswerID: 515115

Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:08

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:08
Gday, Its hard to say without seeing it.....but if its only one or two wires and you can trim them back you could always patch it from the inside and throw a tube in it.
Your spare isn't any different than your normal tyre once its on, so if its not safe its not safe for a spare either but I think people get a bit paranoid about what's "safe" these days.

Cheers
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FollowupID: 794254

Follow Up By: member - mazcan - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:17

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:17
hi steve1
you could very carefully buzz the wire off with an angle grinder before plugging it
ive successfully plugged tyres like your problem and then run the tyre until it was worn out without any problems
its a bit like the paranoidals who say you should not use a caravan gas fridge while driving Ive done 50thousand miles with my gas fridge burning and nether had one problem
now i'll sit back with my flakjak on lol
cheers
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FollowupID: 794255

Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 13:44

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 13:44
First of all I admit I don't have a grasp of the intricacies of "belts" and what is coming thru is just a few strands of wire - and "belt" seems a bit over-stating it from what I can see, although I know it is part of the belt. I can see that a 10/12mm blunt-ish wiper arm would push thru the metal more than a nail cutting thru but it still looks pluggable even for somebody who has only used one once before. Even if one or two 2mm cut ends are poking through to the inside, they are not touching anything to damage are they?

As previously stated, I don't intend using this regularly on road and thought it might serve as a 2nd spare for the Cape or similar. On the other hand, I've enough junk and camping gear around the place without adding another useless lump to it all. If it will plug and get me down the road maybe a few 100ks with care it might be worth adding to the clutter??? I do have a spare rim.
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Reply By: Ozhumvee - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:24

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 12:24
If it has broken enough of the steel belts and plies for them to protrude with a 10mm diameter hole then the tyre fitters are probably correct in that the tyre is severely compromised and could let go at any time when inflated if you are able to plug it.
It really depends on where you are and how badly you need to use that tyre.
If you were in a remote region and needed that tyre to keep the vehicle mobile then yes go for it but to use it on the road at highway speeds then that is risking yours and your passengers lives as well as anyone else's that may be involved in any subsequent incident.
Is the cost of one tyre worth it?
Putting a plug in a tyre after a small stake, nail or screw has punctured it is very different to what you have experienced where the cords and belts that hold the tyre together have been fractured.
Personally if you are able to plug it then keep it underinflated and inflate it and use it for an emergency second spare during remote area travel and replace it as a soon as possible.
I wouldn't run it on the road as such.
Peter
1996 Oka Motorhome

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AnswerID: 515116

Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 16:18

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 16:18
I'd go along with what Peter has said. Definitely wouldn't use it for highway travel, but if you do desert or remote area travel where your speeds are very low, as in less than 60 or so kph maybe remove one of your usual road wheels and put this tyre on just after leaving the main road. If you stake it again you won't feel too bad about it and a failure at those speeds would be unlikely to result in a serious accident although you never know.
Not saying you should or shouldn't but that's what I would do.

Just thinking about that horrid Murphy bloke and his rules that say that would be the last tyre to re-stake. (;=((.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil G (SA) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 18:34

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 18:34
I agree with Peter. I've plugged lots of tyres but I struggle to get large tread punctures to seal - no matter how many plugs and glue you put in the hole. If I was out bush, it would get a big patch on the inside to turn it into a spare if desperate. But if I was in your shoes, I'd bite the bullet and replace it.
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Follow Up By: Member - DOZER - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 21:19

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 21:19
My son just put his 80 into the wire cable fence in the middle of the dual carriage freeway... after a rear tyre let go at 100km/hr.....before that, i would have said repair it, now i say beware....
b4 you bag me out, walk a mile in my shoes, then your a mile away and have my shoes :)

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Reply By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 15:08

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 15:08
Now this is not a lecture in safety, but..............

The issue is not that there are a couple of belt wires protruding from the rubber, it is the question of how many wires have been fractured by the intrusion of the wiper blade.......... almost certainly a greater number than just those that you can see.

So it is impossible to determine just how much integrity has been lost.
The tyre repairers know this and would not undertake a repair with the chance of subsequent failure and maybe having to explain their action to a coroner and possibly with legal accountability.

There are those people that recommend repair with inserted plugs and some of them have responded above, even having "done it for years". But the possibility of dramatic failure is still present so you need to apply your own risk assessment to such a repair.

So the question comes down to the option of saving money or taking the risk of personal safety. Its your choice.



Cheers
Allan

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AnswerID: 515122

Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 16:17

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 16:17
thanks Allan - that is more or less what they have said but I am just weighing up how much of that is in their own interests re: a) sales and b) litigation if it were to come to that. (not that they'd be responsible for my repair) I also know that none of the blokes drive 4x4 or offroad and that's what I had in mind as a 2nd spare, taking it easy, which is why I sought opinions here. I suppose it's just frustrating seeing a $350 tyre with 90%+ tread go down the gurgler. I felt if I were to use it I would be very aware.

thanks for the input guys
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 16:38

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 16:38
Spot on Allan
10-12 mm is a serious amount of damage to the steel belts that are no longer fully and securely anchored so now they can cause even more damage as they move around during the normal flexing that occurs during driving. Failure is likely to be due to either part or all of the tread coming off rather than a fresh puncture.
Check out the tyre caps lying on the side of the road, its interesting that most of them are the result of belt failure. The tyre companies did a lot of analysis a few years back due to the claim that only recaps were the problem. They found that most of the failed tyres were not recaps but original tyres. The steel belt failures had lifted the tread belt off. This was caused by belt damage due to impact, bad puncture repair or rusted belts. The tyres with rusted belts had either been worn so a belt was exposed (often on the edge of the tread from scuffing or from flat spotting) or unsealed puncture repairs, that allowed water to wick in to the belt and allow the rust to develop unseen.

The idea that you could do a string repair and restore the tyre is a dangerous fiction. I have experience of strings letting go at highway speed when a tyre service did a quicky repair without telling anyone. That is just from nail size holes..
Regards
A
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Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 14:37

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 14:37
Steve, I know it's frustrating, but I also don't think you are after "unbiased" opinion, I think you just want someone to back your theory.
They've tried to do the right thing by you, not try and rip you off.
You could plug it and hope for the best, if thats what you, your family, and your vehicle are worth. Good luck with it, chances are you might have a win.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 14:53

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 14:53
Thanks for your input but you should've stopped at "I don't think".

Stick to selling ice cream.

If you bothered to read you would see I have learned a little about the integrity of the steel belt being compromised and have decided to buy a new tyre. I didn't have "a theory".
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 16:50

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 16:50
I won't bother replying to your member message other than to say if you're going to offend somebody, don't be surprised if you cop a bit back.

For the umpteenth time, I was only considering the possibility of a repair for a 2nd/last resort spare on the advice of those who have more knowledge of tyre repairs than I do.
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FollowupID: 794536

Follow Up By: Tjukayirla Roadhouse - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 17:02

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 17:02
No worries mate.
I just offered up my opinion based on all the puncture repairs I do here and elsewhere, as you asked for opinions.
I'll go see if I can sell an Ice cream shall I?
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Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 17:27

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 17:27
You made a knee-jerk post before you'd read the thread and said I'd already made my mind up and was looking for somebody to back it up. You also implied I didn't value the safety of my family for the price of a tyre, which was the very point of my asking and deciding to buy new and forego the old one even as a 2nd spare. Before sharing your Freudian gifts with us, try reading the thread properly next time. Jog on.
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FollowupID: 794540

Reply By: Ross M - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 17:02

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 17:02
Steve M1
If you keep it and have it repaired with a large internal mushroom plug after grinding off the wires it will be good for off road and emergency use.
Yes there is a risk but you have to assess that.
Don't use a tube as suggested as any wires which do work through will instantly deflate the tyre where the mushroom plug will only be pricked through and will most likely still seal.

Balance
Because you add weight with a plug, weight the plug on digital scales and after fitting add about twice that weight to the opposite inner of the rim with a stick on weight. That will almost then balance the tyre again.

AnswerID: 515130

Follow Up By: Steve M1 (NSW) - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 17:25

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 17:25
actually Ross, I was thinking of just that, initially but I'm unlikely to need it for nearly 12 months so I expect I will have got over the pain and frustration by then and probably fork out for newie......and as I'll be opening the bar shortly, I expect I'll reflect a little more philosophically.

;)
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FollowupID: 794276

Reply By: Erad - Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 17:23

Sunday, Jul 21, 2013 at 17:23
What you describe sounds a largish hole. However, I would be tempted to get it patched with a mushroom type plug, or a patch, both from the inside of the tyre. Before repairing, clean it up well. The steel belt is a series of fine steel wires which you should be able to bend out of the way. It will be hard to cut the wires.

After repair, you could easily check the repair by over-inflating the tyre (max 50 psi) and observe how much the repaired area bulges. I would be surprised if you could even see where it had been repaired. If you can see a bulge (maybe greater than 1 mm beyond original profile), discard the tyre or at least do not use it on the highway. If you do use the tyre for highway use, check it after a few thousand km or after a hot spell, and see how it goes. You will not see any bulge then because the bulged tread will have been worn away, but the base of the tread will still be there and using a vernier you can check the tread height and see if there is a deformity in the casing under the tread.
AnswerID: 515132

Reply By: Rod W - Monday, Jul 22, 2013 at 14:16

Monday, Jul 22, 2013 at 14:16
Take it to a mob in your neck of the woods who repairs forklift etc tyres. They'll fix it for you.
AnswerID: 515168

Reply By: Member - Craig F (WA) - Monday, Jul 22, 2013 at 15:59

Monday, Jul 22, 2013 at 15:59
I put a 12mm bolt through a brand new (100km old) MT ATZ 315 75 r16. MT assesed it then fitted a 12mm mushroom plug. Was given the green light to treat it as it was never punctured. 25k later and its still going round.
AnswerID: 515175

Reply By: SDG - Tuesday, Jul 23, 2013 at 20:39

Tuesday, Jul 23, 2013 at 20:39
I'm guessing that BFG don't have the warranty where they will replace the tyre for free if not repairable like some others do?
AnswerID: 515265

Reply By: Member - Wozikev - Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:00

Wednesday, Jul 24, 2013 at 12:00
Jeeez Mazcan - you got away with it, not one person attacked you. Well done.

Cheers ........................ Kev.
AnswerID: 515307

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