This is scary

Submitted: Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 18:58
ThreadID: 103736 Views:3985 Replies:19 FollowUps:38
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Now before any ladies out there get stuck into me – the missus has already called me a misogynous old pig.
My wife’s young niece has become a volunteer member of FESA in a large regional centre of WA.
She has never driven off road in her life.
She was telling me today, that on her 4WD training course run by FESA, she started crying when driving downhill off a sand dune – it was all right going uphill, but on the way down she lost sight of the sky and got scared.
She’s a lovely kid but I wouldn’t let her change my tyre (and that’s on my bicycle).
The scary bit is that someday someone may rely on her to rescue them.
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Reply By: Member - ACD 1 - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:25

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:25
Yep! Your wife is right!

By your own statement - "She has never driven off road in her life."

Haven't you been scared the first time you did something? Give the girl some encouragement. It's people like her - those willing to give up their own time to help the community to keep us safe that makes this the great country that it is. Everyone has to start somewhere. DFES (no longer FESA) aren't going to give her the keys to a $170000 appliance straight up - but they will continue to give her training, support and encouragement though. Maybe you should do the same.

Shame on you Dennis! I hope you are just TROLLING and this isn't your real point of view.

I just hope that now one else replies to this thread and it is relegated to the archives where your sort of attitudes belong.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:03

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:03
It was a bit tongue in cheek but it was factual.
There are people I know young, old, male and female that would be a danger to themselves changing a tyre. Not all people have the aptitude to do all things.
Not being politically correct it’s a wonder I haven’t been moderated by the mod squad already LOL
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Follow Up By: Skulldug - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:18

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:18
You are a little late to add the LOL tongue in cheek cop out. People who share their experience should do so with humility. If you resent others learning the hard way, perhaps you haven't learned much yourself.
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 22:51

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 22:51
WoW! And you were worried about all the women getting stuck into you. So far not one has responded!

Well done to all the men folk who have and in doing so have made a stand against sexism.

There is hope for our species.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:47

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:47
Not copping out Skulldug– I stand by my observations.
No matter how well meaning they are - some people don’t have the practical aptitude or physical ability to be rescuing off road vehicles or hauling tarpaulins over damaged roofs during storms.
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Follow Up By: Nutta - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 19:19

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 19:19
Women police officers? Get rid of em!

We need 6'4 males to sort out some of the scum!
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Reply By: Derek Jones - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:40

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:40
Sounds like she hasn't had much previous experience doing this sort of stuff before and double good on yer niece for giving things a go - at a time when the number of 'younger' people volunteering is rapidly diminishing we need people like her in every DFES agency.

As someone who leads a voluntary emergency service agency we are very mindful of giving our people exposure and experience to these sorts of situations. The DFES course is but the first formal step in a long journey of experience. It gives them a ticket and then we do the rest.

Rather than casting stones at her ability to drive and serve how about encouraging her. Take her out, show her some ropes and let her drive your vehicle in areas she is likely to experience and support her endeavours.
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Reply By: Member - Duncan W (WA) - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:50

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:50
Dennis I was in the VBFB for 21 years and at one stage I was one of only 3 regional trainers for the Perth metro. Back in those days we taught all the newbies how to drive. Many of them women, and most had never been in a 4wd let alone sat behind the steering wheel of one. They soon became competent with practice. Just like you did when they first let you loose.

I learnt by the old hands and they by those that went before them. Unfortunately training these days all revolves around RTA's and Occ Hlth & Safety.

Good to see she's having a go and I still get the willies up when going over a big dune or drop off.

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Reply By: Ross M - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:52

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 19:52
Dennis,
When did you lose your licence and now on a bicycle?
You did say "my tyre" and "that's on a bicycle" so we believe you.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:14

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:14
Ross you're awake to me allready
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Reply By: Skulldug - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 20:51

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 20:51
Dennis,

What a negative post. If you are unlucky enough to need the assistance of a young medico, copper or ambo, I hope you are a little more grateful and a lot less arrogant than you have shown tonight.

Skull
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Follow Up By: Member - Ups and Downs - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:49

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:49
Hey Skull,

Dennis can look after himself but I could see that he wasn't having a serious go at his neice in his post.

Maybe we all look for the negative too often,Yep, me too.

Paul
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Reply By: Neil & Pauline - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:08

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 21:08
Generally speaking there are things that females can do better than males. FESA may not be one of those things. My experience has determined that there is a dispreporionate number if injuries to females within FESA.
Something like FESA should have volunteer jobs alocated relevant to skills and ability. Some people dont perform under pressure so get them out of the way and doing something more apropriate.

This is not sexists it is a fact of life. We are different.

Yeh, it is scary

Neil
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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 22:39

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 22:39
Oh Neil!

Please cite your sources and/or experiences before making such claims.

DFES - it is no longer called FESA (maybe this shows the currency of your claims) has many " jobs" for many people with many varying skill sets. I have seen people with amputations, birth deformities and even one guy confined to a wheel chair performing various roles at major emergencies in WA.

Anybody can do anything as long as they are physically and mentally able and have received appropriate training.

I can't see anywhere in that sentence that refers to someones sex.

The only sensible thing you say is that jobs should be allocated relevant to skills and abilities. I agree 100% - but job allocation should be based on skills and experience possessed rather than the genitals they were born with.

If you have any credible experience, you will know that through all volunteer arms of DFES (including VFRS, BFS, VES, SES, VMSR and VFS) a rank structure exists achieved by gaining skills and experience. A rank structure that supports those who are newer to the organization or have fewer skills.

As a fire fighter with over 25 years experience, having held the rank of Captain, Lieutenant and Training Officer in several brigades (both VFRS and BFS brigades) in the North, South and Metro area, I can honestly say I have no anecdotal evidence that supports your claim.

However, I will say I have worked alongside some of the most wonderful people with exceptional skills of both sexes and wide ranging ages doing their damnedest to make our community a safer place to be.

Unfortunately, I have also seen 3 fire fighting colleagues (2 of them were my mates, 1 was also our next door neighbour) die on fire grounds. Guess what? None of them were female.

Cheers

Anthony
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Follow Up By: Derek Jones - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:27

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:27
Be interested in seeing your stats Neil -

As an aside - the Local SES Manager is female and she is one of the most highly skilled operators I have ever come across.
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Reply By: rotor138 - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 22:53

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 22:53
I bet you wish you could take this one back Dennis?
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:52

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:52
No regrets Roto – just reporting the facts.
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Reply By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 23:41

Monday, Aug 12, 2013 at 23:41
I've pondered hard over this post, trying to work out why Dennis is so worried about his wifes Niece joining the DFES, I wondered if, after an accident a young girl around his wifes Nieces age came to help rescue him, would he feel the same way, is it because he still sees his Niece as a young kid, a little like when my kids started driving, we all have to start somewhere and I'm sure she would not be sent out on her own to any rescue, she will do the training first, you just might be surprised at how she improves as the training takes hold..
I congratulate her on trying to help out in the community, it's a pity more young folk don't take a leaf from her book..... I do hope that you can encourage her in her quest to help out.......

Cheers

Deanna.


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Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:38

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:38
Dennis,

Don't sell your niece short. With the appropriate training and a bit of practical experience she might just surprise you with what she can accomplish when placed in a stressful situation. None of knows what we are truly capable of until we do find ourselves out of our comfort zone.
Having said all that are you sure that what you are feeling isn't so much about some perceived lack of ability on her part, but rather a bit over an over protective tendency on yours. Having served in both volunteer bush fire and ambulance brigades alongside females we males were warned against loosing focus when faced with a possibly dangerous situation and becoming a little to protective of our female colleagues at the expense of concentrating on the task at hand and letting them get on with theirs.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:59

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 10:59
Pop she’s a very talented person but not suited to this sort of thing. After 25 years I know her capabilities. Some people are out their depth in this sort of stuff and are more likely to have an accident than others.
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Reply By: Member - Broodie H3 - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 12:51

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 12:51
Hi Dennis,
when I first joined the RAN I had no experience of the sea, I was seventeen, I couldn't drive anything other than a tractor, but I could milk cows at 5:00am, but the navy gave me something that I have never lost and that is a self belief in my self, and a great consideration of everyone around me and there own abilities, what I learnt from belonging to a large organisation was mate ship and ability to work in a team. Your niece god bless her in a couple of years will surprise the hell out of you. Probably like my fourteen year old grand daughter did the other day, she put a new set of spot lights on my car for me, and did the wiring too my question was where did you learn that she said Google pa, and that included wiring it up through the computer system and Granny put me in my place too. Your niece is to be commended, and you have every right to be proud of her, and the path she is going down at this moment of her life. give her time and she probably will be changing your bike tyre.lol. with your blessing.
Broodie H3
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Reply By: Lionel A - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 14:09

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 14:09
Giday Dennis, Pop by now and then.
As soon as I read your post I had that 'wink-wink-nod-nod' feeling I think you were trying to convey.
I was surprised, or rather not, at the 'storm in a teacup' replies.

Seems to still be a few thin skinned, Green Tea sipping Bob Brown supporters here.
One of the reasons I let my membership lapse many years ago.

Nice to be back in the real world.....lol.


Cheers.......Lionel.

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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 14:42

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 14:42
Yep it’s all good fun, but some do get their knickers in knot and take things sooooo seriously
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Follow Up By: brushmarx - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 14:49

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 14:49
Lionel, I tend to agree with you, but not to the extent of cancelling my membership.
Dennis related a story about his niece, and I read it as a statement from a proud uncle with concerns about the safety of his inexperienced relative based on personal knowledge.
Whether it was tongue in cheek, not stated with perfect grammar or whatever, it ended up with another group assassination attempt.
I understand "short person complex" and "tall poppy complex" but what is the general term for the worrisome responses from people slamming anything that can be taken out of context, a statement not backed up years of research, or even worse the dreaded spelling mistake? God help personal views without seven universities having studied the possible repercussions of the statement.
I understand these people are trying to be world leaders in prevention of sexism and the annihilation of personal statements lacking years of science journals backing them, but if Tony Abbott can screw up and use suppository instead of repository, I guess there is some hope for the rest of us.
Dennis, when you next see your niece, tell her that there are a whole heap of people on Exploroz that are looking after her.
Cheers
Ian
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Follow Up By: Lionel A - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 15:14

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 15:14
Hello Ian, Yes I do see where your coming from and understand what your saying. I quite agree.
The issue of membership relates to other reasons including that which I have mentioned above. Most veteran members will understand. It's not something that should be resurrected or revisited, it's simply history now.
I just voted with my feet......nothing sinister, no ill-feeling.


Cheers.......Lionel.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 23:29

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 23:29
I wonder if it would be "all good fun" if your neice read it Dennis? I admit though it's the first time I've come across the concept that people can't learn, make progress or mature beyond age 25 though. Some people with no experience can initially find certain things extremely daunting, sorta like your inability to accept young women (wink wink nod nod).
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 16:19

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 16:19
Denniss

On our first drive of the 100 series we went to Abercrombie NP with our son in his old Navara. We stopped at the start of a quite steep climb. You know the type. Sitting in the front seat you all you can see directly in front of you is "dirt". To see up the track you have to lean forward and look up.

The son goes up the track first with a bit of wheel spin here and there and my wife says words to the effect that she doesn't want to be here. But off we go and no hassle.

Nowdays she would drive up and down steeper and rockier roads and up and over under and around dunes without the blink of an eye. And without doubt drive rings around a lot of you blokes as well.

Don't sell your niece short, as said already by someone, because a bit of experience will go a long way to giving her the confidence to be dependable.

In nashos I did a stint as a driving instructor at 2 Base Workshops at Moorebank. We used to enjoy scare the living daylights out of "first day" trainer drivers in the Army. By the end of the course they were fine. There is nothing like being in a locked up APC113 and going full belt over the crest of a HUGE!!! sand dune. We never let on that the "sand dune" was only about a 1" high drop off a concrete ramp. Poor buggers. I am chuckling away like a hyeena here.

Phil

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 17:03

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 17:03
You don't ride inside a Tijuana Taxi. You ride on top.
Dave.
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Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 17:18

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 17:18
Mate I wouldn't stick my head up top over seas. Okay if you want to play cowboy back home. I heard too many whizzes's go by to do that.

Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 22:46

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 22:46
Long time ago mate and we definitely weren't playing cowboys. Did you ever see one on its back.
Cheers,Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 09:41

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 09:41
I was talking about the habit that the yanks had of travelling on the top. Too easy to get bitten by very fast flying mosquitos.

As far as one on its roof and/or side I actually have seen numerous versions. The one that I sometimes drove at Ennogera (7 Field Squadron Workshops), was like the one below. Not a good photo. It was a workshop and recovery version that RAEME used.

I prefer to ride inside thanks.

Phil

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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:00

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:00
To each his own Phil. Ah, Ennogera. Home of the Grey Eight.
Dave.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:09

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:09
Sorry The grey eight?? Who were you with? Memory is stuffed.
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:10

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:10
Wake up Australia. . . 8RAR

I wasn't infantry so don't know all the nicknames mate.

Phil
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Reply By: Rockape - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 18:38

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 18:38
Dennis,
I know what you are saying, maybe you just approached it the wrong way.

I have worked with some very capable women over the years and some would put shame to many a macho man. It doesn't matter if you are male or female, as long as the person in charge knows the limitations of their charges and delegates accordingly.

One thing is, you never know how a person will react in an emergency until it occurs.

Please don't sell her short. I assisted a very young slim girl who had very little experience. She accepted the help and started driving semi's, then ended up on road trains. She also would put many alpha males to shame. More balls than a battleship.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 21:16

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 21:16
Nice post, RA.
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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 19:15

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 19:15
It is interesting reading the sexist claims on this post, I wonder if there would of been the same reaction if you change the story to be about his nephew ?
Some people ( male and female) don't have a practical bone in their body and are not suited to this style of job and Dennis's comments and observations may not be sexist at all?

Just saying............too often these days issues get turned into a rascist or sexist or descrimmination issues
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 20:02

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 20:02
Alby spot on – if it had been my nephew with the same aptitude my comments would have been the same.
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 21:18

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 21:18
Another nice post. People need to calm down a bit.

Cheers
FrankP

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Follow Up By: Member - ACD 1 - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 23:11

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 23:11
I hear what you are saying Alby but;

Unfortunately, Dennis' post was about his niece.

Unfortunately, he opened the post with overtones of sexism QUOTE "Now before any ladies out there get stuck into me – the missus has already called me a misogynous old pig."

He knew his comments were inappropriate - he knew his comments would attract negative responses. He even knew all of this before he had even begun relating his story about his niece. That is why it was prefaced the way he did.

I can not see what positive contribution comments such as these could have on this or any forum

It is not my intention to attack anyone personally - I don't now Dennis (or his niece). It is however my intention to continue to challenge any comment that is sexist or racist. I will also continue to challenge any repugnant behaviour that I see when I am out and about. One day I will be bested by a young hoon who is abusing a disabled person, cutting up in the local park or tormenting an elderly citizen. But I figure that between now and then I can make a difference and stop some of the hurt others cause. Perhaps my boys will take up the good fight when I'm gone.

Maybe if Dennis' post related to "What scared you the first time you went 4 Wheel Driving" and he then related the part about his niece being scared when she crested a sand hill for the first time, the reaction wouldn't have been as strong.

Dennis, my apologies if you feel I have launched a personal attack on you.

Below is a quote that I have adopted as my mantra. Before some one suggests that it is sexist, I read the term men as being plural of 'man' - non gendered of human (both male and female).

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

~ Edmund Burke 1770

Cheers

Anthony

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 23:38

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 23:38
You never know what anyone is capable of until they are given the opportunity and responsibility Alby. Plenty of young guys (and gals) tarred with the same brush went off and served their country very well in wars. Writing anyone off so easily, in public, is pretty poor form imo. Don't see the humour at all but then again we all chuckle at different things.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 08:50

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 08:50
Yes I hear what you are saying and I was not necessarily sticking up for Dennis, he may well be as his wife described. I was just shining a different light on the post to keep a balanced view.
Regardless of whether his Niece is suitable for the job, good on her for having a go, I am sure she will find the place that suits her best
I agree with you Bazooka, you never know what you are capable of until you try and we all can make a positive contribution to society but not necessarily at the same things. I have never been to war but I would expect that when you are in the trenches I am sure there would be some soldiers you would have preffered to have next to you over others?
I have two children one would embrace that job the other would struggle on a major scale BUT in the areas he is suitable for he is top of the game.
That is reality, may not be "politically correct' in today's world. I don't believe in everyone is equal, everybody is different, but no one is better than anyone else.
We all make up society in different ways
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:28

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:28
Hi ACD 1
The term “a misogynous old pig” is mild for my wife, she’s a bit of a shrew, with a shaper tongue than Julia Gillard.
Your quote “my apologies if you feel I have launched a personal attack on you” – thank you but I took no offence.
Your quote “Perhaps my boys will take up the good fight when I'm gone” makes me see where you’re coming from.
Best of luck with your crusade.
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Reply By: Member - Dunworkin (WA) - Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 22:31

Tuesday, Aug 13, 2013 at 22:31
I'm sorry, but I must have missed something here, where is this post a 'sexist' post or have I lost the meaning of 'sexist'. Apart from a couple of replies most of them are encouraging Dennis to support his Neice, my comment certainly would have been the same had he been talking about a nephew.
The only thing I would add is that Dennis knows his Niece, I don't, so at least we should allow for that, I still wonder whether he is more concerned for her safety more than anything....

Cheers

D


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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:50

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 10:50
Gday Dennis,
If what you are saying is some people just aren't suited to some jobs, I agree.
Its just the political correct world we live in these days that says everyone is equal, and you cant discriminate against any one, sex, race, weight, height, mental capacity....anything.
You cant tell someone they failed (even if its for their own good) you must deem them not yet competent even if its extremely unlikely they ever will be!
I cant read anything into your post about she wasn't suited because she was female or that you were knocking her for trying.......just struggling and possibly out of her depth and certainly out of her comfort zone.
Maybe if she puts in a lot of work she may become good at it, but probably not as good as someone who can just do that stuff naturally. And being that no one on here knows her better on here than you Ill just have to take your word for it.
I wonder if you changed you post to describe me and say, Im over 6 foot 100+ kilos, have long hair, beard and tattoos and are training to be a jockey or a ballerina people would be so encouraging....LOL
A mate conducted a heap of job interviews the other day and a 64 year old bloke had some how made it through to the short list...........when he suggested to the panel that his age might pose a problem he was shot down in a second because it was discriminatory.
The bloke had no experience in the field, would take three years to train and was one year off retirement????? Go figure
I personally reckon were turning into a bunch of Latte sipping fags ( not that there is anything wrong with Lattes and I hope fags is an expectable term in the homo-sexual world) if we cant say what's on our minds or have an opinion for fear of people screaming discrimination all the time. (even if they don't know the people concerned)

Just my thoughts...

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 12:31

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 12:31
Hi Hairy – I glad I didn’t say she was a blonde – the other day my daughter in-law, said our granddaughter was no longer allowed to sing Bah Bah Blacksheep as it was considered racisist.
I tried teaching her Bah Bah Whitesheep but she won’t have it – she says “don’t be silly poppy”.
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 13:17

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 13:17
yep........Summer Holidays now, not Christmas holidays and no Christian theme to the "end of year" concert so not to offend...........its all crap in my eyes and I refuse to be a part of it and teach my kids the same.
Everyone's good at something....not everything, and you don't have to be the best at everything as long as you try your best.
I don't reckon there is anything wrong with saying I'm just not built for that or its not my thing or I just suck at that and don't plan on wasting time trying to be good at it?
Remember Monty Python "Life of Brian"? When Stan wanted to be called Loretta and fight for the right to have babies even though he didn't have a womb? We used to laugh at stupid comments like that.....its not far from reality now! Hahahaha
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Follow Up By: Nargun51 - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 14:22

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 14:22
Hairy,

Can you nominate the school in your local area that you know where this occurred?

My wife works in a school with a large Muslim population; at the beginning of Ramadan the teachers receive some education in the relevant aspects of the religious expectations over that period. This year the Muslim mums in her school got together at the end of Ramadan and provided the teachers with lunch to celebrate. The school tries to be inclusive for all their students; Christmas is celebrated.

Many years ago, my wife worked with a Jewish teacher who had no problems with participating in the celebrations in the classroom leading up to Christmas; she just put a Star of David on the Christmas Tree
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Follow Up By: Hairy (NT) - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 15:24

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 15:24
Yes.......
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 16:26

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 16:26
Hi Nargun 51
I not a religious person, but seeing you asked; last year in the quest for political correctness, Edgewater Primary School in Perth banned The Lord’s Prayer, so as not to offend other religions.
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:26

Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:26
You can call people latte sipping fags if you like Hairy as long as you don't mind having your views being labelled redneck from time to time. All 3 descriptions are perjoratives as we all know. It seems a lot of people have problems coming to grips with new behavioural expectations. There are a few cases where "political correctness" can be seen at work and certainly some people are better suited for certain tasks than others at times but that term is now a grab bag of excuses for generally ignorant comment and behaviour. Plenty of women driving the big Cats on mining sites these days although more than a few would have said they don't have the capability or "aren't suited". The good old days when men could treat women as little more than appendages and exercise their many prejudices are thankfully fading. I guess it's difficult for some people to come to grips with, but it shouldn't be difficult for any adult to understand the inherent unfairness of discrimination. Thankfully I've never been on the receiving end but I can well imagine what it feels like.
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Reply By: Scotts Paj - Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 14:15

Wednesday, Aug 14, 2013 at 14:15
Some of these posts are just another example of political corectness gone mad. We can't make any comment percieved to be critical of a female without being a misogynst (the new buzzword, another on the list to be eternally grateful to Julia for)!. Can't make an observation of any race without being a racist... and the list goes on! Whatever happened to being able to call it as you see it, NO, we might hurt someones feelings! I continue to fear what kind of world my kids will grow up in! There is one saving grace however, the silent MAJORITY are gradually standing up to this madness!
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:32

Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:32
You're kidding yourself if you think your attitude is part of a silent majority. At least for the sake of this country I hope you are.
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Follow Up By: Scotts Paj - Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:45

Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 10:45
My point exactly!!! Not allowed to have an opinion unless it conforms with the tree huggers. We'll see what happens on September 7th, I'll put my house on it that the silent MAJORITY will speak. You can't tell me that what's happened over the last 3 years in this country is what the MAJORITY of people in this country wanted (I know it's a little off subject but am trying to make a point about how dangerous minorities can be)!
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:08

Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:08
You're kidding yourself again if you think that Coalition politicians hold views similar to yours. One or two do as we know, thankfully most are far more mature. There's a huge difference between informed and fair opinion and ignorance. Your generalisations about "minorities" is utter nonsense. Look up "the tyranny of the majority" and have a decent think about it. In any case how you'd know what the majority of people want at any particular time on any particular issue, even allowing for their lack of knowledge about most issues, is a mystery to me. Just because we vote left/right/Lib/Lab/Green/independent etc doesn't mean we share the same views on every issue, nor that we support those parties in every decision they make or policy they have.
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Follow Up By: Scotts Paj - Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:23

Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:23
See this is the problem. It is all one sided, let's see who can shout the loudest! You say "even allowing for their lack of knowledge" as if this is open and shut. They don't agree with me so they must be racist, sexist etc. etc. Your "informed and fair opinion" is it, no correspondence entered into. People are fed up with it! Again, you can come back and call me ignorant, uninformed etc but this is your opinion. Why are minorities (and I stress again) minorities, the only ones allowed to have an opinion and everyone else is a racist etc if they disagree? This is probably the wrong forum for this discussion but this is creeping in EVERYWHERE you go. It is insideous!!!
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Reply By: ModSquad - Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 13:06

Thursday, Aug 15, 2013 at 13:06
Hello

This thread was barely (if at all) on topic to start with and probably should have been nipped in the bud at the beginning in hindsight. There are now several off (thread) topic discussions going on and its become a bit of a mess so unless advised otherwise it will be locked to further comment.

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The ModSquad
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