Big engine, big power, better economy when towing.

Submitted: Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 20:26
ThreadID: 103900 Views:6073 Replies:17 FollowUps:49
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Same 16 foot van towed by the following. Both petrol.

Mid size 4wd, 3.5L V6, 145 kW , 339 Nm, 2000 kg, 20L/100km
Family sedan, 5.5L V8, 285 kW, 530 Nm, 1800 kg, 14L/100 km

Confirms my long held view that small engines belong in small vehicles and one should never send boy on man's errand.
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Reply By: d04 - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 20:43

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 20:43
agree entirely, more power easier towing, no brainer.
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Reply By: hooks - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:07

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:07
What brand and model vehicle are you refiring to ?
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:36

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:36
Hyundai Terracan and Benz E500
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Reply By: Road Warrior - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:16

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:16
What were the vehicles..?
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:37

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:37
Hyundai Terracan and Benz E500.
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Reply By: Ross M - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:27

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:27
Not a good comparison as there are many variables operating with a 4wd which is heavier than the car and has more frontal area, the vans may be different other than the weight, and the engine of the car makes more torque lower down at the towing speed.
Although I agree in most cases a slightly bigger engine will do it bette, it isn't a good example. The sophistication and programming of the ECU's and the change characteristics of the autos will also have a direct effect as does the actual load and running ratios which apply the torque to the ground.

A 2000kg van and an 1800kg van are different weights and possibly frontal area and shape is different too.

I might fit a Rolls Royce Merlin engine 27 litres to tow a 2 1/2 ton van and see what it gets in the economy stakes. Do you think the lock up clutch will be ok?
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:32

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:32
Same 16 foot van as said in post.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:33

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 21:33
Best Off Road, the discussion is about Best ON Road.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 23:13

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 23:13
Odd perspective.
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Follow Up By: Member - Ian H (NSW) - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 07:16

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 07:16
Best Off Road,
You are "best off" just ignoring Ross M as he seems to know everything anyway. Well that is my experience anyway!
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:18

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:18
Ian H
Most times people are challenged by a comment, they take the " ignore them, they know all attitude" instead of examining the things they say in a sensible way and getting an accurate perspective of the issues at hand.
A perspective which may not be the best way of looking at it in the first place.
To present various other options or situations which may not have been considered in the original comment is quite valid

I get the drift that Mercedes are better than the others, from the OP. That is the only real info gleaned from the comments.

You have no experience with me at all only your perceptions of what replies may mean.

Your line says, Experience is something you get just after you needed it.
That sort of makes the, ignore Ross comment, look a bit silly doesn't it?
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:38

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:38
Ross if you're going to challenge, it would pay to read and understand the original post before ripping into the writer.
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Follow Up By: Dennis Ellery - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:07

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:07
Ian H
Playing the man and not the ball isn’t good.
If you have something intelligent to say about the subject then go ahead so we can judge your opinion.
Whether you like or dislike Ross M is irrelevant.

Best Off Road
What are you talking about?
Ross’ comments are valid
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 22:03

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 22:03
Dennis,

Read my original post, read his response. Note the reference to 1800kg and 2000kg, all will become clear.

Jim.
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Reply By: DiscoTourer - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 22:45

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 22:45
I think there be a bit more to it than just engine size.

Less than a month ago a friend towed with a 6 litre commodore wagon one of my 1.8 tonne trailers and average 24 lp 100. He complained about how fast the needle moved. He used a light foot.

I towed the same trailer back the following day, and average 14 lp 100 (diesel though) with a light foot.

Commodore 270kw 530nm 6 litre
Disco 180kw 600nm 3 litre twin turbo

I thought torque was the key but he has almost the same as my 3 litre. I guess torque more low down is the key.

So in my comparison back to back......size was more costly at the bowser.

Brett.....
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 22:57

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 22:57
1. Apples vs apples was my point.
2. 24L/100km, get him to get it checked or release the hand brake.
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Follow Up By: Off-track - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 23:02

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 23:02
Diesel v's Petrol is not a fair comparison.

A closer measure of the test would be to compare say a V6 Commodore with a V8 one of similar vintage and fuel/air induction type.
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Follow Up By: DiscoTourer - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 00:21

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 00:21
The comparison given by the OP was against a taller car with an engine with little development, next to a more aerodynamic car, with an engine with more development (comparison of a Korean manufacturer to a German one)....so where's the apples against apples with that comparo ?

If you compare the commodore to the Merc of a similar size engine and weight.....then something is wrong. Probably superior engine development in the Merc over an old push rod Australian motor..but would not have expected it to be that much better.

Far enough that you can't compare diesel to petrol, but my point was more torque and its sweet spot.

I had a VY 5.7 a few years back, and only once did I attach a horse float, and never again, as it sucked the juice down at an astronomical rate. The V8 commodore motors seem to tow well, but at a price. Even around town they both sat at around 15 lp 100 plus, much more than the Merc with a trailer. The Merc torque production may be flatter and lower down.

Torque and its location seems to be the way for better economy....not engine size.

Brett....
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Follow Up By: Nutta - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 21:57

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 21:57
The problem with the commodores is there ridiculously high diff ratios, kills them for towing.
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Reply By: wizzer73 - Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 23:50

Saturday, Aug 17, 2013 at 23:50
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you but you need to provide more info.
Was the tow test done by the same driver? What year were the cars made? Both in a good state of tune? Climate conditions (windy, cold/hot). Driven the same route?

For all i know you could be comparing cars that are 10 years apart in age?
One could have been driven at 80kmh while the other at 100kmh.

Not really "apples vs apples"

wizzer
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:51

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:51
It wasn't a deposition in the Supreme Court, just a little bit of information to share.
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Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:53

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:53
Without a lot more detail a totally useless bit of information.

A good mate of mine towed his 24' van from Perth to Esperance and got 34l/100klm fuel consumption using a Toyota Landcruiser V8 petrol. Sounds a bit scary until you also take into account that he was going into a howling headwind and this guy insists on travelling at 100 kph when in the country. He got 28l/100klm on the return trip a week later with a tail wind.
He now owns a new 70 series dual cab V8 diesel, still sits on 100 kph everywhere and gets around 22 to 24l/100 kph. depending on the road, prevailing winds, ambient temperatures, traffic, etc etc.

Cheers
Pop
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Follow Up By: wizzer73 - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 03:14

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 03:14
Are you talking about a Benz thats worth $180,000? Thats what redbook shows for a 2013 model. If so, who cares about fuel economy lol!

wizzer
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 13:44

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 13:44
The E500 is a relative bargain on the second hand market. Pristine four year old units with less than 40,000 km and Benz dealer 2 year new car warranty can be had for HSV money.
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Reply By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 00:07

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 00:07
I think you are bordering on the dishonest by not providing full figures of what you did, comparing a sedan with a 4WD and also not comparing engines of similar technology. Of course a Benz with its super refined technology will perform better than ancient technology.

I consider your post a waste of effort on your part.

PeterD
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 08:00

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 08:00
Why so bitter?
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Follow Up By: Nomadic Navara - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 08:44

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 08:44
Not so bitter but p155ed off by your attitude. You post bald 'facts' with little detail. Others have asked you to explain but all you come back with is you are comparing apples with apples. You are Not. Your vehicles are so dissimilar you are comparing apples with pears.

PeterD
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:12

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:12
You really need not to get so worked up, it's not good for your health.
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Follow Up By: Member - David M (SA) - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 13:44

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 13:44
Find this a most interesting subject so have decided to do a Spreadsheet of all the most popular vehicles, ie weight/engine size/
colour. Might as well start with yours Best Off Road, so if you can send me the tyre pressures of both vehicles ( just front and rear will do,not each tyre) I'll get on to it.
Cheers,Dave.
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Follow Up By: hooks - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 14:14

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 14:14
Hi David, would be most happy to receive a copy of your results. As we speak I am doing a spread sheet re all the vehicle brochures given out by the various dealer Sharks LOL.
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Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 00:59

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 00:59
Gday Jim
I understand what you are saying, the Benz is better and more enjoyable to drive , even with a van on the back.

Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:42

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:42
Murray you'll note I rarely contribute here any more. Every now and then I post something and remember why I don't bother. You can't post a simple bit of information/observation without every two bob knob trying to tear you down and try to promote themselves as some sort of expert.
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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 23:48

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 23:48
An accurate observation. Most forums are heading that way, not just this one. I read somewhere that the internet is only good for looking at funny cat videos or having arguments with strangers. :-)
But I digress, scientifically speaking if engine efficiency and aerodynamics are equal then it should take the same amount of fuel to get from a to be for the same weight. However, the larger motor won't have the throttle opened as far so will use less fuel because the combustion in the chamber will be more complete. The smaller unit with the throttle open more will probably be reving higher and sending more unburnt fuel out the exhaust. That's my theory anyway and the trolls can take it or leave it.
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 08:15

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 08:15
Gday Jim
I understood what you were saying because I read the post .

Will we see you at the Pyrenees?

Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 08:51

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 08:51
I've got a race meeting on that weekend. My latest hobby is doing some club motor sport. I'm involved in Super Sprints which is just a fancy name for timed track work, no actual racing as such.

Note the EO 'sponsorship".
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Follow Up By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 09:05

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 09:05
Gday Jim
So how many ltrs / 100 do you get from that lovely family sedan on track day?
Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:23

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 10:23
I've never actually measured it but six or seven laps around Sandown makes the needle drop a lot. I'll probably get lambasted for such an irresponsible answer but so be it.
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Reply By: howesy - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 06:45

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 06:45
has any one bothered to heck the economy figures of the 3 litre grenade in the Patrol while towing 2.5 tonne as opposed to the brunswick chev conversion after the nissan motor explodes.

Might be a better comparison putting a late model electronically over clocked 4 cyl diesel against an old school grunt master diesel in the same vehicle towing the same weight.
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Follow Up By: wizzer73 - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 07:28

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 07:28
Interesting to know the ecocnomy figures of the 3L vs the 4.2td. That would be a good comparison.

wizzer
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Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:31

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:31
A previously regular contributer here changed his 3lt patrol for the 4.8's that I love on the belief off what Jim is saying and was pleased to be able to confirm that lightly loaded the 3lt diesel was reasonably economical but that under load towing it did actually consume more than the much bigger petrol.

In measured tests I have shown that at 100kph cruise the 4.2td uses 33% less than the 4.8 petrol but on a long run thru sand the difference dropped to 17% - and to boot the diesel would bog down thru sheer lack of power/torque.
Robin Miller

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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 14:57

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 14:57
Robin,

I was simply trying to make the point that a big motor loafing will be more efficient than a small motor screaming. I know you get it. I really didn't think a thesis was necessary but others obviously differ; not much has changed.

Jim.

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Reply By: Batt's - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 08:15

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 08:15
16.6" pop top van towed at same speed 100kph - 125kw GQ 4.2ltr petrol 26lph - 101kw 2.5ltr turbo diesel disco 16lph...Just like yours not a fair comparison just shows how different vehicles perform and a bigger engine doesn't always mean you'll get better economy I'd like to how the results went if you swapped the motors over.
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Reply By: olcoolone - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:54

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 09:54
This happened in heavy road transport back in the early 90's, all the manufactures went to smaller capacity good HP engines.... like the 11lt Cummins M11, 10lt Caterpillar 3176 and later on the Caterpillar C12. According to the industry it was the way of the future.

Everyone raved about these engine BUT about 10 years ago they all started going to bigger 14-17lt engines with greater HP that gave them better trip time, more economy and longer service life.

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Reply By: hooks - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:39

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 10:39
Hi Best off Road,
Your post comes at a good time for me as I was actually discussing this motor performance technology with a friend yesterday. I am in the market for a twin cab that will tow a 5th wheeler with a tare weight of 2100kg and an ATM up to 2800kg. There has been a number of recent Threads reporting that some vehicles struggle towing loads up hill etc. I don't want to purchase a vehicle that fails like this.

I am looking at the current crop of 3 to 3.2 L, 6 cylinder, diesels with a towing capacity of 3 to 3.5 tonnes. Obviously fuel economy will be a major consideration in my decision making.

I read with interest and some confusion, the comments in this thread, as I am struggling to understand how an engine that is 2.0L larger, has 191nm more torque , 140kg greater power and 2 more cylinders albeit towing 200kg less weight, can all things being equal, consume less fuel.

As I have indicated in my few previous threads, I have a lot to learn and this forum is helping me greatly, but I have to sort the comments a bit from time to time. If you are able to qualify your experiment details a little more this will assist with my understanding.

Thanks.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:00

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 11:00
Hullo Hooks
I can give you another example.
We have just completed a 15 000 km trip around the Kimberley, Pilbara and Goldfields regions with a 2005 dual cab F250 (7.3L V8) and a dual axle 18' BT - total mass approx 8 tonnes. Usual cruising speed on open sealed roads was 90 kph in 3rd gear (auto box), revs about 2300 rpm.
Many fellow caravaners commented, when seeing the rig "I wouldn't want to be paying the fuel bill" and yet, when informed that the overall fuel consumption in these conditions was 22 L/100km, commented that they weren't getting any better than this (and sometimes worse) with their smaller units at similar speeds.
FWIW, the newer models - Fords, Chevs and Dodges, are getting figures in the upper teens and I understand that the Dodge Ram with the Cummins diesel is available in Oz at about the same price as a 200, giving no hassles re being over GVM and GCM.
Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By: hooks - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:40

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:40
Thanks Andrew,
Interesting. What is the 18'BT and the description of FWIW?
8 tonnes seems is a large GCM, but 22L/100km appears very good for this weight. If I quote the Ford Ranger twin cab 3.2 diesel, its GCM is 6000kg. I wonder what its fuel consumption would be towing the rig that I am considering on the trip you have quoted.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 18:04

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 18:04
Hullo Hooks
BT = Bushtracker
FWIW = for what its worth
GVM of the F250 is 5.7 tonnes (it has dual rear wheels and F350 springs)
GCM is 9.1 tonnes from memory
By the way, the 22 L/100 is with cruise control on and Toyo M55 M&S tyres, which together probably add 2 L/100.
As to your question re the Ford Ranger, I have no idea. At higher speeds, wind resistance may be the main variable affecting fuel consumption rather than weight.
Cheers
Andrew
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 13:38

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 13:38
Hooks,

The overall gist of my post is that a big engine will be loafing along doing it easily whereas a small engine under load will be working its clacker off and hence chewing huge amounts of juice.

Jim.

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Follow Up By: hooks - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 17:33

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 17:33
Thanks Jim, Its been a great Thread, I have actually learnt and I now can understand what you were saying. Today I quizzed my diesel mechanic re torque , power and revs etc and he said the same thing. eg bigger motors work less when compared to their smaller counterparts pulling the same weight.

Thanks again.
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Reply By: Hairy (NT) - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:13

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 12:13
Gday Jim,
As a general rule, I reckon your probably right.
There would be cases like an petrol 80 series compared to a new petrol Hilux, which might not get the same results but as a general statement (sorry....opinion!),I agree.
That's what I used for an excuse to the Mrs.to look at a v8 Lancruiser.

PS. be careful what you say on here these days.........opinions aren't appreciated anymore, only pure facts! Write posts as if your writing a uni paper or people can get a bit nasty....LOL

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:46

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:46
I rarely post here these days for reasons displayed in this thread. I recall the Mods cleaned up the "abuse" years ago. It clearly didn't work as people just do it in a different way. Not a very friendly forum these days.
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Reply By: Echucan Bob - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 17:20

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 17:20
3.0 L diesel 580 to 620 Nm, 10 L/100km - why on earth would you tow with a petrol engine?

Bob
AnswerID: 516640

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:36

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 20:36
Towing makes up less than 2% of my driving. For the other 98% I like to drive a car that goes and handles. And on the odd occasion that I tow I'll pay the bill to be able to maintain a decent speed. Towing at 80 or 90 and holding up traffic is rude and dangerous.
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Follow Up By: Ross M - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:00

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:00
Many of us don't have the money for a "BENZ" and so may have to travel at 80 or 90 and legally are allowed to do that, those people have experienced impatient and attitudes which do create some danger because of the non acceptance of some who are in a hurry.

"Get out of my way I'm coming through no matter what".

Now that is rude and dangerous.
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:25

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:25
" Towing at 80 or 90 and holding up traffic is rude and dangerous."
When I got my licence, I was repeatedly advised that the speed limit was ONLY a maximum, not a mandatory, speed. While it is discourteous to hold up traffic, it is not illegal, and only dangerous if the following traffic cannot get a grip on their impatience.
I drive at the limit where I can, but if I cannot, then I'll allow people to pass where I can SAFELY do so!
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 14:43

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 14:43
Towing requires three things

1. A tow vehicle with adequate power and physical weight
2. The van or trailer needs to be balanced ie a ball weight of 10 %
3. A trained/skilled driver. This includes being able to properly use the manual override on electric brakes.

If all three are present there is no valid reason to tow at less than 100 kph (except in very hilly or winding country). I do blame some of the outrageous towing claims by manufacturers to be, in part, to blame (underpowered vehicles towing overweight vans). I also blame the stupidly low speed limits in this country that have produced a generation of incompetent drivers.

And despite all the claims of "I pull over and let others past" I've never actually seen anyone do it.
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Reply By: troopy 47 - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 18:31

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 18:31
Hey Andrew how did you manage extra 2+ tonne on you're F250 yer right.
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew & Jen - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 18:55

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 18:55
Hullo Troopy 47
See follow up above to Hooks - duals and F350 rear springs.
Because it has such a stiff rear end, I fitted an Air Safe Hitch with shockers - works very well.
Cheers
Andrew
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Reply By: Rockape - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:21

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 21:21
Hell everyone,
Jim just posted what he had observed. Guess he won't do it again.

As Olcoolone said, they tried the smaller diesels towing freight around this country and they failed big time. Same as many years ago detroit tried a 53 series engine that screamed like a banshee and didn't do the business.

Hell! There was a recent post about a mag testing 4 vehicles, and no one was even interested in the fact that the 200 cruiser was carting all the gear around for the test, both in the back and on the roof. Then included the fuel figures for all the vehicles. How do you get a fair comparison when one vehicle is carrying the load. Not one person here questioned that I believe, and no I don't own a 200 series.

Thanks Jim.
AnswerID: 516657

Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 22:37

Sunday, Aug 18, 2013 at 22:37
I think I'll go back into exile, it's just too damn hard to participate.
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Follow Up By: Member - Geoff M (VIC) - Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 07:37

Monday, Aug 19, 2013 at 07:37
Jim - Please don't go into exile, I appreciate your efforts in posting in the first place and replying to several of the more 'constructive' replies. Unfortunately some people wish to just criticize and attack the poster rather than make a positive or informed comment, as I have previously discovered when I posted about my BT50 that fell to bits.

There are still lots of genuine people with plenty to offer on this forum, so please help with the balance and contribute when you can.

Cheers, Geoff
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 08:54

Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 08:54
G'day Jimbo old son

As they say in the classics ... "Nil Bastardo Carborundum"

It never ceases to amaze me how forums such as this attract the drongo and nutter element.

As soon as someone makes an innocuous and well-meaning contribution they all appear out of the woodwork with their pontificating and belittling drivel. It would seem the sole purpose in their obviously boring as bat sh1t lives is to play the man rather than the ball.

It was for this very reason I gave this place a miss for a few years however, like the phoenix arising from the ashes, it would seem we have to endure a new generation of wankers.

Treat them with the contempt they deserve cobber.
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:16

Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:16
Hey Rosco you crazy old bastard, you have such a way with words. I've got so much happening in my life I haven't got time for the misery that seems so prevalent.

Business is booming, one of sons has joined the business, our beautiful little granddaughter is almost two, we do a lot of travel both OS and locally. I've decided I need to make sure I'm around to keep enjoying it so as well as giving up the fags a few years back I'm now a "weekend only drinker" (except of course for holidays).

Jim.

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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:23

Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:23
Good to hear old mate, good to hear.

Smart move with the fags. Just make sure you don't turn into a wowser with your reduced grog intake ... ;o))
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Follow Up By: Best Off Road - Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:32

Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 09:32
Damn small chance of that. I note the latest medical advice is two per day. My assumption is that means bottles.
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Reply By: Peter S35 - Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 19:14

Tuesday, Aug 20, 2013 at 19:14
We are on our second 4.0 lt petrol Territory (SZ) and tow a 19ft 1800 kg full size van.
We just completed a 10 day trip from Adelaide, SE, down to Pt. Campbell and back home through Camperdown and the Grampians.
8 days into the trip, I was getting 13.8 L/100, then we had a horrible head wind for the next 2 days and consumption went up to 17/100 but I am chuffed with the big T's towing. ( Actual recordings, not off trip computer) 87 klm /hr when good driving 80 with head winds.
'Pumper'
AnswerID: 516802

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