How important is a winch?

How often do you think you will put yourself in the position to need one? If you do alot of solo travel, the requirement would be a bit more than if you go with others. How often would you go into areas where you might need self recovery? If you don't want the added weight on the front, you have the option of a hand winch. Terribly hard work, but if you only need it every 6 months then its not so bad. You won't need a duel bat for a hand winch either, just a good work ethic.

If you go 4wding properly Badude then your will always come across an obstackle beyond the capabilities of a standard car.

95 % of those times can be solved with just a snatch from a friends car.

But if you go alone then its quite different and you must have some means of rescuing yourself.

Your best friend is the ability to seriously lower and raise your tyre pressures.

In the snow or mud you should have chains, in the sand it might be some Maxtraxx.

But overall a winch gives one the most confidence and this really enables you to go further even if you don't use it.

I have used one many times when alone mostly and this is what you need to concentrate on.

One was used for 8 pulls just last weekend rescuing a 200 series 500m from our front door.

Suspension is nice to have but you don't really need it, lockers will take you further but its the winch that will get you out.

But unless you implement the winch properly then don't bother.

Remember the winch comes into its own when alone.

I choose to have no bullbar and a winch - this solves the weight problem and partly reduces the need for a bar.
(If you really need a bar get a plastic one).

Your winch must be operateable by yourself from within the car.

I did some special bits for mine such that you can throw the rope under the car and even pull backward with reduced force.

The actual pull of your winch isn't so important provided its 10,000lbs +

You need one with proper gears a strong motor (as opposed to low gearing).

Don't do what some do and have winch operating from just a second battery (this is inefficent).

Synthetic rope is a must and some acessories to be able to extend the rope and use it at a angle.

At the end of the day you could hardly call yourself "Bad Dude" without one.

I'd guess that 99% of winches to 4wds are dead weight.Winches are incredibly cheap now, but they are still dead weight.
I've owned the odd winch, but not for my 200series as I can't see myself needing it.
Desert travellers IMO never need a winch. Sure some people might use one but its not because they have to.
High country 4wders only need a winch when they go in search of the gnarly tracks and bogholes.
I see winches used when a shovel or towrope would suffice - just so we had the chance "to use the winch".

Its up to you. If you look for adventure, and are happy to dive into the hardest tracks to see what can be done, then get one and join a 4wd club where (hopefully) you can get some training to know how to use it. But if you just enjoy touring the country in a very capable 4wd then give it a miss.

In my case a winch is high priority, out of the five times we have used it in the last 6 years it has gotten us out of the bleep big time.

If we didn't have a winch on three of the occasions the chance of a major catastrophe we inevitable.

Bear in mind the only times we have needed it was in the Pyrenees in Victoria...... all our other trips including the deserts we have never needed a winch.

I look at a winch as a safety device and security, not something to pull me through big mud puddles.

As for power, the bigger the better. Winches are chosen for weight, efficiency, pulling power and and layer strength and speed.

If you have a look at the specs you will notice the pulling force is lower as it goes onto another layer of the drum...... a winch might be rated at 9000 pound but thats not over the full length, at one point it may only pull 5000 pounds.

We went for a Warn M12000 that the biggest ARB will allow on their bars, we went big for speed and pull over a long distance and also to be able to pull our 200 series plus our Ultimate at the same time if needed.

Make sure to get a wireless remote, best thing ever.

Those who don't have a winch will tell you you don't need one and those same people more than likely have never driven in conditions where it may be warranted.

BTW we only use steel winch rope..... synthetic rope is a waste of money and a bit of a wonk factor, great for comps or the "look at mu look at muuu" brigade.

It makes me laugh sometimes...... $500 winch with $700 worth of synthetic rope.

As others have said I would carry Maxtrax over a winch in desert country but in general I think a winch is great insurance. I just think of a how I would feel if was stuck with my family knowing that a winch would have got me out and I didn't have one so I think of it as a good safety backup
A bar is a must and it is not a big expense to add a winch for the odd time that you may need it

We mostly travel solo and during those solo travels we have only used our winch for a self recovery once. Looking at the cost it would have cost twice as much as I paid for the winch for me to get a tow truck in to pull me out. We are way ahead on that count.

But, and here is a bonus use for the winch, I had to remove a whole lot of ground cover from our back yard. Access was through one gate which is a meter wide. It was a manual job. I am not healthy enough to any digging or heavy manual labour myself. So I parked the 4WD outside the gate and reached in with the winch and pulled it out. A drag chain etc wouldn't do any good because it was not a straight pull. Snatch block was required for a lot of it. That took me most of a day. Cost of Jims etc to do it would be a couple of days at $$$. Say 2 days at $40 an hour and tip fees would be more than $500 plus. Cost of winch worth it. No tip fees for me as I just mowed it all down, roots and all, with the mower. Not all would use their winch for gardening but my brother in law used one a lot to clear trees from his farm.

We do not regret installing one. Cost was recovered.

Phil

The best type of winch, if you think you need one, is a hand, tirfor type winch. It will basically never fail and can be used in a multitude of directions (unlike an electric one that is mounted on the front of the vehicle and thus pulls you deeper into the bog) and it gives you exercise.

Ultimately it depends on what you want to do. I spent money on suspension and I believe it was far better value than a winch. I avoid being a hero by looking for hard stuff, I just go around it, I have nothing to prove.

Living out in the Alice has sure given me a different view of what you really need...Suspension, compressor, rear diff-locker and when you sink in the sandy river, maxtrax.. there were no winch points any where around and the sand was just so soft even with 12psi in the tyres, down we went :-)...The Finke River can be fun :-)

Its like insurance policies expensive and useless until you need it,then it is worth having,i was in a remote location ,no other vehicles,while crossing a river with the water only about a foot or so deep,i foolishly ran over a stump just tall enough to catch the steering rod that connects both front wheels.Bent the bar like a boomerang causing the wheels to toe out by several inches making the vehicle stranded and undriveable.
ran the winch cable to a tree and back to the apex of the bent rod and gradually pulled the bar back straight enough to drive home.(Replaced the bar when i got home and found the wheel alignment was only 5mm toed out ).
I was lucky and btw my winch is hydraulic not electric,both have their pros and cons,good luck with your decision.

Some really good points made in this thread. At the end of the day, if you can afford one and it is not a trade off for something else critical, then it is worth having. As others have pointed out, a number of uses other than straight recovery. They are great for straightening old strainer posts, dragging tanks onto pads, pulling logs out of creeks, etc.

A couple of points though, please, please, please get some training on safe use and have someone knowledgeable (such as a 4WD instructor or club) check out your gear (recovery points, shackles, etc.) Winches can be great insurance, but some training and practice is also great insurance. Secondly, remember to maintain and regularly test the thing. I learnt the hard way that if you just assume it is good to go, guaranteed it will fail when you need it most and becomes nothing more than a heavy bow anchor.

Cheers,

Matt.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I think you need to balance off likelihood of using it against the weight penalty and cost of having it.

Like anything else, it will be a trade-off. If you are going to go into areas that are challenging and likely to place you in a position of becoming stranded without one, then clearly you need one. And for sure, you don’t need to be on a difficult track to arrive at a point where one might be useful.

But for the main part how often do you intend to challenge yourself on difficult tracks on a solo basis?

If you are going to do the touring you are suggesting, then the need may not be as great as you think. Bearing in mind, you already have a potential weight issue with 2+4 in the vehicle, and all the other gear you will be taking.

You’ll have no problem being convinced of its usefulness, if needed.

But my suggestion remains, add less, go for a couple of trips, get used to the vehicle, and see how it develops, you can always add it later...

I think the old adage goes along the lines...if you have diff locks, and a winch, you’re bound to get yourself into trouble – so make sure you are capable and competent in their use!

Good luck on your deliberations...

Have you needed your winch? How often? How often do you find yourself in need with no one else around who has a winch and could help you?

Is one time of need enough to make it worth always having a winch?

In answer to the original question:

I had a warn winch fitted to a steel bar on my JK Jeep I owned previously, we did 130,000klms all over Oz in 5 years and used it 5 times, every one of those occasions was for others benefits.

One occasion I was happily camped near Streaky Bay and a fellow strolled up to me and asked if I could come and help him and his mates out with my winch. Drove a few ks down the beach to find four fellows standing looking into the surf, turns out they had tied a rope to their boat trailer with tinny on board to let it out into the water (by hand) and all of a sudden the trailer sank when it went “over the ledge” Their Rav 4 didn’t cut the mustard, the Jeep and its winch had it all out in ten minutes and a slab was earnt.

Three of the other occasions were in Tasmania on wet slippery tracks when we came across others bogged or on one occasion precariously slipped of a track where anything but the slow precise pull of a winch would have seen the Toyota Hilux rolling down into the river.

The final occasion was on the Simpson Desert, my friends LC200 slipped sideways into a washout pushing one side of his twin wheel carrier against the other, not allowing him to open the back of the cruiser without a lot of grunting and swearing. We used shovels to alter the washout and drove out but later in camp we set the Jeep up at 90 degrees to the LC and winched the steel away from each other just a smidgen, all fixed.

After installing the steel bar and winch in the early times of ownership it was noted it cost us at least 1.5 ltrs/100 klms and when we added the lift and bigger tyres we “lost” another 1.5 ltrs/100klms. At close to standard we saw just under 10ltrs/100 klms often but after “mods” we hardly ever saw under 13.5 ltrs/100 klms. 130klms at an extra 3.5 litres per klm was a high price to pay.

We have changed our touring chariot now to a new PX Ranger, we chose to lift it 50mm at the front and 100mm at the back (to accommodate our slide on camper) and just change tyres to All Terrains on the standard rims. We have fitted a smart bar, good recovery hooks front and back, carry 4 max tracks and good recovery gear including a long handled shovel, (but no winch) and 30,000 klms to date including another trip to Tasmania and a trip down the Canning Stock route has returned overall fuel use at 11ltrs/100 klms (with highway miles at well under 9 ltrs/100 klms).

Basically as we are getting older (and wiser) we chooses where we go to suit the vehicle set up and off course the Ranger does not look as rough and ready as the Jeep did so we are not asked to help others as often. The difference in fuel use and the extra comfort of the vehicle set up is allowing us to do more kilometres out in our great “bush”.

PS to all the Nay Sayers re the plastic smart bar….. do some research, read some reports. We haven’t hit anything yet (and we only hit one bird in the 5 years with the previous Jeeps steel bar), we pull over at dusk and boil the billy on the rare occasion we are not yet camped at that scary, dangerous time on the road. We also wait around our breakfast campfire until the early morning road is clear of animals (and fog in Tasmania). The smart bar added 30 kilos to the front of the Ranger including the two lights and didn’t necessitate an extra beefy front spring replacement as it didn’t drop the front any perceivable amount when installed. Its also much more aerodynamic (I think ) and does not seem to change the fuel use at all. My research showed that if we do hit a reasonably large fury animal the smart bar will fair just as well if not better than any other bar, yes even a steel one. I hope to never test this and in the mean time I will use the dollars saved to fuel up and go out and see more.

Steve and Carol

Thank you to everybody for your great feedback. As I have read through the responses I found myself first leaning one way and then the other, as I found people's thoughts persuasive in both directions.

In the end, I have been persuaded by the stories of those who have really needed their winches, even if only once.

I think that a winch will give me confidence to keep going and experience more of tracks than I would otherwise (whether or not I end up needing the winch).

I will be getting the steel bulbar, the winch, AND the suspension upgrade (and I'm sure making someone's day at ARB).

G'day OzBD,

There are some excellent responses and I know that it has already been mentioned about how you might travel but I want to share my story. I have travelled without a winch in all my travels but I was always in company of others and we supported each other for recoveries of which we have had a few. Last year due to circumstances I was doing an extended trip on my own and decided that a winch would provide the insurance I was looking for to replace my usual travelling companions. Did I use the winch? - No! Did it provide comfort in knowing that I had some mechanical means to aid in a recovery? - Yes!

Theoretically you do your best to not get into trouble and because we travelling on our own we reduced the risk by not taking the rougher roads but I doubt that most do not get into difficulties intentionally.

Kind regards

Warn 16.5Ti and synthetic rope.
Can be attached to any part of the vehicle and pull in any direction.

Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 Motorhome