Power Chips

Ron if you ask your vehicle manufacturer any non genuine accessory has the potential to void your warranty, the onus is then on the vehicle owner if the situation arrises to demonstrate that the aftermarket accessory did not cause the warranty claim failure.

yep - if you are still under warranty you'd need to check the repercussions if it all went teets up.

If you can find a 4x4 club specific to your vehicle, you'll get a lot of good, informed info.

A lot of these chips merely boost pressure which is ok in the short term, but I would rather go with something like a Steinbauer which synchs with the car's computer and enhances the original settings. Far better than merely increasing pressure, especially if you want to keep the car for a while and not trade in after a short time and then the car could become somebody else's problem. Just compare the different types - try the "4wd action" forum - there'll probably be a fair bit of discussion over there.

The notion that increased/higher than std diesel injection pressures DON"T affect injector pump and injector life is a view held by those who regularly change over their vehicles and thus avoid life expectancy issues.

They never see it and therefore it doesn't happen? Not sure about that.

Seems a bit self-contradictory there Ross? Not sure which what you are saying.

Anyway, plenty of info out there without getting into the usual waeco/engel, patrol/cruiser contest here. I'd suggest the OP does some research of his own rather than have to sift through the usual "mine's best" squabbles. Best to go for a vehicle-specific forum ( the 4wd action does divide it's tech forums into different brands of vehicle) and you'll probably find the best outcome is distilled through the discussions there. Just pointing out the differences which need to be looked at. You might well be right.

If you think logically about it increasing injector pressure will not have much of an impact, if you were running the engine and fuel injection system at 100% duty cycle then yes it will have an impact.

You are only talking a maximum 5-10% increased flow rate..... if your vehicle is loaded and running at 50% engine load all you are doing is increasing without a chip and you put a chip on it you will be increasing the load on components as if your engine was running at 52-55% engine load.

If you were running the engine at 100% and you added a chip you would increase component loading from 100% to 105-110%.

The added load that a chip places on components is very very small and within component duty cycles.

The way some talk it seems if you use a chip you increasing loads on components 10 fold..... this is not true for short periods of time you may increase component loading but a lot of the time there is no extra load applied.

As for Steinbauer chips, they are no different to the rest, they just have a cleverer marketing strategy.

So what's the difference of increasing fuel supply to a non CRD engine by winding the pump up and doing it electronically as on a CRD engine.

People for years have been winding pumps up on diesels for years, with most heavy vehicle diesel engines; to increase output it's just a reflash with no component change.

I had a look at the article Joe has written and parts I agree with but a lot I don't,

When the Hilux with the CRD engine first came out people said the same thing about chipping them...... funny thing is Toyota Team Europe offers a plug and play chip that is still covered by factory warranty and works the same as most of the other chips..... many factory backed tuning houses in Japan and Europe offer factory backed chip upgrades.

Another thing do you think all these diesel specialist would sell something that according to some "will destroy engines".

Good post Olcoolone
I agree with the theory of if you are increasing the load that it will in turn wear out faster but in practical "real world" terms is this any different to choosing to tow heavy trailers or be heavily laden as opposed to an empty vehicle driven on the black top only?

Well, I agree with everything that Joe says on his website. When the manufacturers engineers design their engines, they are designed to the optimum in performance, engine life, and reliability. Each is balanced against the other. You want more power? Yep, you can get it - at the expense of engine life and reliability.

"Toyota Team Europe" screams just one thing to me - they aren't interested in engine life - they're interested in maximum power, with an eye to winning and getting their name up in lights.
They don't give the proverbial rats rectum if the engine blows up 20M over the finish line - they just want the engine to finish the race, that's all.

Yes, lots of people have "screwed up the pump" on the old mechanical injection diesels - and they are the first to moan when the engine suffers shortened life. I've seen plenty of the results of it.

Why do so many owners make a point of removing chips when they sell their vehicle, and hiding all evidence of chipping?
It's because they know there's a large number of buyers who will immediately shy away from any used vehicle that has been chipped - and that includes most dealers (well, the honest ones, anyway).

I can show you product literature from Caterpillar whereby they measure engine life by the total number of gallons of fuel used - not engine hours or miles/kms - it's that simple.

Caterpillar also have engine power settings for continuous duty, intermittent duty and short-duration (emergency HP) duty. You don't utilise the last two power settings for continuous duty. To do so is to invite shortened engine life and component failure.

It shows your little understanding on the subject Ron...... Toyota Team Europe operate much the same as HSV, FPV, AMG and M Sport to name a few by offering a range of aftermarket gear and enhancements they sell to new vehicle owners.

Obviously you have no knowledge of these companies or what they offer.

With you opening paragraph you have forgotten three other very important reasons why vehicle manufactures don't run higher power..... 1) Next years model can offer more power or a higher spec of the same year 2) They have to make their vehicles reliable for to 0.1% who will abuse them (drive flat out, tow/carry maximum weight and never service the vehicle properly and use poor quality oils, coolant and service items) and NUMBER 3) Fuel economy for the average JOE in average driving comditions.

So you have seem many old diesels fail due to pumps being opened up...... how many? I've seen a fair few diesels fail with no pumps wound up and I know of heaps who have their pumps wound up with no reliability issues...... TD42's and 1HZ's come to mind.

A lot of owners don't remove chips and if the do maybe it's got something to do with them making more money out of the sale..... having a chip is not going to get the seller more money from the buyer but by removing the chip and selling it by itself they may make another $400-$700, much the same as why do they remove draw systems, roof rack, bull bars, UHF radio's and other accessory.

In a heavy vehicle application you're looking at BIG power and torque increases and these owners are going to use every ounce of power they can get with loadings of 75-100% most of the time unlike light vehicle owners with engine loadings of 25-50%.

In heavy vehicle use; an engine not operating in the 70-90% region 80% of the time is a waste and does more damage than good, all the truck manufactures offer load calculators to help select the best power option vs fuel consumption.

It's funny how a 500Hp Cat has the same engine rebuild life expectancy as a 600 Hp engine if used under the same conditions like B Double..... heavy haulage and RT are a different kettle of fish.... but I would say the 500 would die sooner.

Do you understand the theory behind thermal loading?

All vehicles should be serviced accordingly to fuel use, we have done it for years in heavy vehicle maintenance.

And as per Joes comments on Sprint modules...... obviously he has never driven a 200 series Landcruiser or some of the other late model diesels that a bordering on the edge of being dangerous with their delayed throttle inputs.

It's up to you if you agree with Joes comments, as you know he is an expert....... be interesting to hear his views on two stroke oil and Hiclones in diesels.

Ron,

Not sure who outbackjoe is but his article sounded like a rant from someone who has decided to go camping. Smart@rse comments about rail pressures etc contribute nothing. If you drive like a fool, your engine isn't going to last long whether it has a chip or not.

I use a DP Chip and drive sedately but when I need more torque its nice to know its there.

I've spoken at length with the people who make DP Chip and they talk a lot more sense than my Toyota dealership.

"Do you understand the theory behind thermal loading?"

Olcoolone - Yes, I do. 45 yrs of owning, repairing, and working diesels hard, gives me some cred, I'd hope.

None of the aftermarket chip manufacturers consider engine damage (or lifespan) when selling the products - as it's simply not their problem.

When you blokes find a chip manufacturer who will warrant your engine after you've fitted their chip - let me know. I'll be the first in the queue to buy one.

Until then, I'm happy to let highly experienced engineers with access to highly sophisticated design programs - tens of millions in research and testing facilities - and an eye to keeping their companys name up there in the "reliability" stakes, supply my engine requirements.

These people have more cred than people with limited research and design facilities, who see a "quick buck" in supplying "hot-up" devices that purchasers can be the test-bed for.

These aftemarket chip manufacturers have no emission constraints imposed upon them, and no interest in emission levels and laws.

Witness the number of U-toob videos where the owners of chipped diesel engines delight in suffocating passing and following vehicles in clouds of black smoke, reminiscent of some of Clarrie Cummins' first engines of the early 1930's.

The number of late-model 4WD's I've followed, that are issuing vast clouds of black smoke (usually whilst climbing hills and towing 'vans) is indicative to me that there's a lot of chipped engines out there that are purely and simply overfuelling.
You can't utilise additional injected fuel properly, unless the air input is substantially increased as well - a fact overlooked by many of the "chip" brigade.

Ron, 45 yrs of owning, repairing, and working diesels hard doesn't mean that you have a good understanding of everything diesel, nor does it make you an expert on the subject of diesel chips.

Ron I'm sure you were one who would've scoffed at these fandangle electronic diesels in the late 80"s...... fancy that 500+Hp..... they will never last.... what happens when the breakdown.

I can remember comments about Cummins Redheads out performing K19's, some could not get their head around it.

Heard it so many times from owner operators back them.

As for warranty.....

http://www.dpchip.com/home/info/guarantees-and-warranties/

Have a look under "New Vehicle Engine and Driveline ‘Express Warranty'."

Some more reading.....

http://www.dpchip.com/home/unbeatable-warranties-from-the-safest-chip-in-the-world/

As for black smoke, very common in CRD engines BUT the funny thing is I don't see many pouring coal and I do a lot of driving.

In a diesel there is no way of getting 100% burn rate, LPG injection comes close but still not 100%.

It's good to see you know more than the "chip brigade how according to you know bugger all and are just out to get peoples money.

I didn't see you on the election paper "No diesel chip or over fueling party".

And if you so worried about the environment why have you got a fossil fuel vehicle?

Your set in you beliefs and thats fine, I have no problem with that but you comments come from someone with little experience on the subject, all you have managed to do is quote other peoples comments that you have read on the world wide web....... if I wanted to find out how bad these chips are I would've just Googled it and read all the posts from people with very little real life experience on the subject, it doesn't matter what you do; there will always be a very small vocal group saying different...... chips are no different.

End of story!

Ron,

45 years experience doesn't mean much when you are talking about computer chips. They haven't been around that long.

I don't know how good a mechanic you were. Its possible that others have been fixing up your mistakes for the last 45 years.

I can only judge the quality of your knowledge by what you say on this forum. If you showed some manners I'd invest some time trying to understand your point. When you have this "everyone is stupid except me" attitude, people just ignore you. That is of course until you get up someone's nose, or you talk garbage and someone that actually knows, corrects you.

Don't stress too much Ron, it's all good.

There is nothing wrong with playing the devil's advocate and having a fiery debate, your contribution has some valid point.

Look on the bright side..... at least the mod squad didn't pull any post from either of us.....LOL.

There is nothing I hate more than a one view post where everyone agrees..... it reminds me of a bunch of blokes standing around a BBQ all grunting, groaning and all agreeing.

So you're not a tree hugging greenie...... LOL