Patrol v Landcruiser

Submitted: Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 02:55
ThreadID: 10442 Views:2746 Replies:18 FollowUps:21
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G'day all,

I'm due a vehicle change soon and I'm thinking about either a Patrol or a Landcruiser. We do a bit of bush/beach camping and light towing (camper trailer now and again) and round town driving (75%+). I have 3 kids and when we go camping we are pretty stacked to the eyeballs. So it's either:

Patrol with: live axles, 3.0 TD, 130 litre tank, barn doors, spare on rear door, external roof gutter, 7 seats, 354 Nm (450 Nm if I add a DTronic), ~$50k new

or

Landcruiser with: IFS, 4.2 TD, 180 litre tank, table doors, spare under rear, internal roof gutter, 8 seats, 450 Nm (540 Nm if I add a DTronic), ~$70k new

C'mon give me your opinions.

Thanks.

Mike
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Reply By: goingplatinumcomau - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 03:49

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 03:49
If you buy the nissan

Patrol with: live axles, 3.0 TD, 130 litre tank, barn doors, spare on rear door, external roof gutter, 7 seats, 354 Nm (450 Nm if I add a DTronic), ~$50k new

Make sure it is well Insured so when you Burn it or leave it in Redfern with the door open key in ignition.
Make sure there is no replace vehicle clause in the Policy as you will want the money to go buy a Toyota.

Be the worst Nightmare car burnt out and they give you a replacement 4 Clyinder Nissam :(
Then again it is not Rocket Science 4 Clyinders or a 6 Clyinder

What sort of an Idiot would put a 4 Clyinder in a Vehicle that size ......... Well i suppose they give you the option of not buying them ?

Shane
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Follow Up By: Brian - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 07:39

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 07:39
Gee Shane, that was a well thought out response to the question.... NOT

Anybody else noticed it's usually the Toyota drivers that do the Nissan slagging thing????
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Follow Up By: cokeaddict - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:03

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:03
Never ceases to amaze me how silly some people can be.
They are both very capable vehicles, each one has its ups and downs.
In the end, its your call so go with what YOU really want. In my opinion, If you can afford the extra 20 grand Id go that Toyota, as the 6 cyl is a long term thing. Then again, save 20 grand and you can really deck out the GU nicely.

Thats just my opinion. Many would laugh at it,but then again....I know what i want and what i use it for to get enjoyment from it, and my GQ does the job very well for me.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

I love it when you talk DIRTY !
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Follow Up By: mick - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 14:01

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 14:01
What Grade in School are you??

Thats schoolyard stuff. " My dad can beat your dad"
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Reply By: Barry F - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:04

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:04
Hey i've got a Ford Explorer is that opening a can of worms ?
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Follow Up By: Barry F - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:08

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:08
Sorry for changing the subject either vehicle is good just come's down to personal choice !!!!!!!!!
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Follow Up By: Chris (W.A.) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 20:58

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 20:58
Ford Explorer or Ford Exploder....just stirring you Barry!!Nice southerly coastal fishing trip someday.
Chris
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Reply By: Dazmit - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:15

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:15
You're best bet is to go & drive them both & that will make the decision for you.

They are like chalk & cheese after having driven them both.

Cheers

Darryl
AnswerID: 46283

Reply By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:41

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:41
Both have + and -

If you go the Patrol in Diesel go the 4.2. Lots more reliable than the 3.0.
If you go the Petrol 4.8, they are thirsty.

If you go the Cruiser Diesel Price them and once your out of hospital from heart failure, drive them.

The Cruisers are from $15,000 more to start with. No better in reality, but they only have crap IFS on them now. They not a bad car if you like driving a bread box.

$15,000 buys a lot of accessories..

Both cars have different seating and power characteristics, as someone else said, drive both and see what YOU think first.

Search there are a trillion threads on this!
AnswerID: 46285

Reply By: ruts - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:56

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 08:56
G'day Mate,
I own a 3.0 TD PATROL 2000 model and had the same dilemma 3 years ago. I've been happy with it - contrary to what you read about them blowing up around 100,000 (check archives). It's beaut to drive, really good on long trips - around town a bit sluggish off the mark until turbo kicks.
Fuel consumption is unreal - close 30 mpg on trips and that's not nursing it. on the downside it's jerky in slow going because on the touchy throttle and has what i call turbo lag i.e a short flat spot at certain revs.
When i bought mine i couldn't go past the value - all set up with bars, wheels, ABS, duel airbags for under 50K.
I also have a 3.0 L Hilux 98 model which has 400,000 - have just put new clutch and gearbox in. Have owned it since new but it has had many drivers for work - tough as they say. it's the second HILUX I've had - previous 2.8 did 330, 000 without a problem.
I'm a real Toyota fan and if I made the decision again I'd get a 4.2 in either - probably the TOYOTA because of the resale but would definitley not pay for the factory Turbo but buy the 4.2 GXL and fit a good after market turbo.
If money's not a problem go for the real deal.
Cheers,
Ruts
AnswerID: 46288

Reply By: landcrusa - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 09:21

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 09:21
Cruiser's don't have 180 litre tanks as standard. Its 145 litre on the non turbo and 141 on the turbo.

I'd buy the live axle non turbo GXL as you will never be happy with IFS ground clearance.

Don't be fooled into comparing list prices either, Toyota will drop $1000's off their prices while Nissan won't. The real difference in similar vehicles (you can't compare a 3.0 with a 4.2) is neglible.

Suggest you have a good look at the 3rd row seat folding and removal mechanism's also and you won't buy the Nissan.
AnswerID: 46292

Follow Up By: joc45 - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 12:27

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 12:27
Depends if you need the third row of seats. Mine are sitting wrapped in plastic, taking up space in my garage till I sell the machine some years down the track.
Gerry
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 21:45

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 21:45
Joc hit it on the head, 90% of offroading 4wds have their back seats in storage, some clowns even try to offload them on Ebay for $500+!!!!
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Follow Up By: landcrusa - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:28

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:28
Mike said he has 3 kids. The seats will be well used carrying their mates around when not camping, so the seats need to go in and out frequently. Been there, done that.
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Follow Up By: duncs - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:48

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:48
I don't know how Toyota do it but in the NIssan I can have both seats out and my home made shelving system installed in about 20 min. I reckon thats not too bad
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Follow Up By: joc45 - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 14:36

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 14:36
Definitely kids seats, be it Nissan or Toyota.
Saw a Cruiser-load of Toorak-ites being run around by a tour operator in Mary River NP. The three adults in the back row didn't look all that comfy. And they would have been paying for a "luxury 4wd".
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Reply By: 10 Para- Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:31

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 10:31
Hi if you are going to spend $70k on a Cruiser then you got enough for the Nissan Patrol TI 4.8 got ours last year July 2003 brand new for $64,500 and came with ARB fron bar Spot Lights Rear Tow Bar tint windows Bonnet Proctors and wind deflectors also incl sound proof and rust protection just could not beat the value anywhere, the Patrol has been great since and would not part with it dives around town and off road the best, dont forget that when you get the Toyo at $70k then you might have to spend $10K to add the things that will take it off road such as spare wheel carrier front bar etc etc etc.
Good luck Going soon can't wait
AnswerID: 46298

Reply By: basecamp15 - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 11:50

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 11:50
It's been said a few times already here, 15 K can buy a lot of accessories and you will have to buy at least some. I've heard good reports about the 3L GU and towing. It pretty well suits everything you want it for. I've not actually been in a recent 100 series cruiser so I can't say why they're so much more expensive, I just know that the a GU is fine enough for me. The TI is definitely an option in my opinion when comparing to a cruiser as the interior is so much better (you even get a sunroof) and it has rear diff lock making it in my opinion, a better off road vehicle.
Cheers, Mark.
AnswerID: 46309

Follow Up By: flappan - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 13:12

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 13:12
The new 4.8 Ti doesn't have a Difflock anymore . . . not even as an option apparently.

The old 4.5 was the last with the Difflock.
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Follow Up By: 10 Para- Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:33

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 10:33
Stick a ARB locker in the front and rear still and your still in front just spoke to the nissan guy at Ispwich re the TI price he said it ws $78k but you would not want to pay that price would you i said no and he told me that he sold one lasy week to a guy for $68K so the price we paid last year of $64 is still out there they even have the DVD in the rar now so the kids can watch while the handbrake picks them up and drops them off, then when you want to go bush you have a great truck to go in
Best of luckGoing soon can't wait
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Reply By: Member - Captain (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 12:04

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 12:04
I went through the same dilema only 3 months ago when replacing my standard 4.2 diesel 80 series. After a lot of research and test driving I now have a manual 3.0TD with ABS and could not be happier.

The differences between the two are well documented already, but note that the cruiser has 424Nm standard and Nissan has 354Nm. I have fitted a dtronic and it now has 420Nm . It makes power right from idle and fixes the off-idle lack of power when towing.

I looked at a standard 4.2 Toyota after having such a good run with my non-turbo standard 80 series, but you cannot get a factory turbo or ABS brakes on it. When looking at the aftermarket turbo, I was told catagorically that I would have NO warranty on the engine AND the drivetrain if I did this. As I tow my offroad van regularly, I would not have a non-turbo diesel again, just simply not enough power for relaxed towing. Could not bring myself to spend $55K, add say $5K for a turbo and have NO warranty.

Also, did the research on blown 1HZ motors and as this is an indirect injection motor there has been quite a few cracked precombustion chambers. This is caused by too much boost and if one seeks the power you reduce reliability (and the 1HZ is a very reliable motor in standard trim).

I did not want the nissan 4.2TD motor at a $6K price premium over the 3.0TD, even though it is arguably the most reliable motor available. I prefer the modern design of high pressure fuel rail, multi valves, electronic controlled injection etc... as its FAR more effiecient. But then there are MANY who prefer the tried and proven mechanical design that can be fixed in the bush. Each to their own here...

There is a lot of doom and gloom about the 3.0TD motor, but its has been upgraded to overcome the problems of the first series 3.0TD, mainly pistons overheating. The "new" motor on the GU includes more oil sprays and galleries, upgraded pistons, more sensors etc. When you look into which engines actually died, the vast majority were ex-government (police, fire etc..) that had a high probability of being driven hard right from cold and/or otherwise abused. There are few original owners who had problems (check out the Yahoo GU patrol group). There has not been a failure of a genIII motor with holed pistons to my knowledge since.

As for price, I work for one of the largest companies that purchase many millions of dollars of fleet vehicles. The best fleet deal I could get for a 4.2TD cruiser was $67K drive away (NO extras) compared 3.0TD $49K drive-away with ABS safety pack, roo bar, tow, snorkel, spotties, seatcovers. Although I was in a position to be able to get the 4.2TD cruiser, I could not justify it to myself.

I made my decsion and do not regret it for one second. I am glad I talked to actual owners of 3.0TD and did not listen to those who's "brother mates uncle grandfathers cousins sister" had one that blew up. Virtually all 3.0TD owners passionately support their vehicle, and its only non-owners who knock them, probably jealous toyota drivers justifying the extra $18K they spent...lolol. Just look at the sheer number of 3.0TD Nissans on the road these days, they are everywhere!!!

I hope you are happy whatever way you decide to go. Both are very good vehicles and you need to decide based on what suits YOUR needs and budget

Cheers

Mark

Mark
Nissan 2003 GU 3.0TD
AnswerID: 46310

Follow Up By: Member - Andrew(WA) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:18

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:18
Captain....

re the Dtronic....what has it done to economy, anything?

Would you recommend it? and give me a personal opinion on the old '1 -10' scale. ( '1' being crap and '10' being can't live without it)

cheersFraser Island
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 00:08

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 00:08
Andrew, would rate the dtronic 11/10 !!!! I do a bit of towing and the 3.0TD lacks grunt at idle. The power increase is right across the board, but its at idle where you real need the extra power.

As an example
1) I could not back the van up my drive in low range at idle without stalling. I either had to slip the clutch or reverse too fast. Now I simply idle up in reverse in low range, a real clutch saver.
2)with the cruise set at 100km/h while towing, the speed would drop to 90km/h up a test hill. At the top of the hill, it goes downhill straight away. The cruise control would surge to ~ 110km/hr before dropping back to 100km/hr (cruise took a while to wind off the accelerator, was effectively flat to the floor). With the Dtronic it now simply sits on 100km/hr up and down the same hill.
3)In the peak hour grind, I now stay in 3rd right down to idle whereas before I would change down at ~1200RPM. Very smooth when accelerating.

As for fuel economy, I average 12.2l/100km city driving. After the Dtronic I got 12.8, but that was with LOTS of use of the extra power (gotta test these new toys!!!). Next fill was with the van and 4WDing on the beach, generally pushing pretty hard. Am currently driving like pre-dtroonic to get a fair comparison and based on the gauge looks better than normal yet still recieving the crisp throttle response at low revs.

So, I am pretty wrapped in this product. Compared to things like extractors, big exhausts etc I have put on previous vehicles, this been by FAR the single biggest improvement to power and its right across the rev range, not just top end like say extractors. Its far from cheap, but probably the best kw per $ value around.

Cheers

Mark
Nissan 2003 GU 3.0TD
Windsor Rapid Offroad
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Follow Up By: big john - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 01:01

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 01:01
whats a d-tronic worth - please tell

i have a 3.0 litre , although i reckon you spend half your time slowing the thing down ,as they go like stink

the sherrif
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Follow Up By: Member - Captain (WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 11:26

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 11:26
Sherrif, the Dtronic is an ECU (engine control unit), a replacement "black box" that controls the engine. They are a simple plug in job and can be removed at any time (ie. when serviced by the dealer).

Safari Dtronic website

They retail for ~$1500, but you can normal get a ~$100 or so knocked off the price.

Cheers

MarkNissan 2003 GU 3.0TD
Windsor Rapid Offroad
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Follow Up By: Member - Andrew(WA) - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 23:46

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 23:46
Thanks Captain..sounds impressive.

I'll have to have a look into it for sure.

Let me know how the economy goes running around like normal

cheersFraser Island
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Reply By: Martyn (WA) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 12:55

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 12:55
Mike_S,
Like the others it's your choice, it's whatever you feel comfortable in. I changed my 4.2TD GQ three months ago for a 3.0TD 2000 GU, despite all the negative stuff I'm very impressed so far, touch wood no problems. I towed my camper trailer down the beach two weeks ago before the dealer warranty expired to give it a go, no problem at all, and it was hard work, very soft. I took a few L/C's out for test drives, I like the fold down doors at the back, but apart from that I was getting a lot better bang for my buck sticking with a Nissan Patrol, I like my gadgets, and now I can at least afford some of them and have a 2000 vehicle, with the Cruiser with the extras I was looking a a 97 - 98 model and a few more K's and non turbo.
As Truckster says there is a "truck" load threads about this stuff if you have a search, plus there's a lot in the fourby mags if you want to read it. Over to you good luck. Keep the shiny side up
AnswerID: 46318

Reply By: kiwi2 - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 15:36

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 15:36
Mark,

Better take another look at your fleet deals. I got a 100 Series TD with auto, air, bullbar, alloys and towbar for $68,000 18 months ago. No fleet or company deal - just a straight sale from a Brisbane Toyo dealer (I didn't ask for the bullbar or alloys - they were on it when I took delivery).
AnswerID: 46346

Follow Up By: landcrusa - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:37

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:37
I second that. Just before xmas I was offerered 63,000 driveaway on a 100 GXL TD manual and 53,500 on 100 GXL non turbo. No fleet deals, just straight talking.
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Reply By: Wil - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 16:28

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 16:28
Hi Mike

Reckon you should go for a petrol Patrol. Stock, traditional and reliable.
Diesel is costlier, not good for short trips, higher maintenance and have technical problems in one form or another. Fuel prices do not give you too much incentives either way, think of the grunt from a petrol engine.

Good luck

Wil
AnswerID: 46355

Follow Up By: Member -Bob & Lex (Sydney) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 17:41

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 17:41
How you figure petrol is cheaper @69000 for the 4.8 & 52000 for the 3.0Regards Bob
Where to next
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Follow Up By: Truckster (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:13

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 22:13
Diesel is costlier, Bzzzzz wrong
Not good for short trips Bzzzzz wrong
higher maintenance Bzzzzz wrong
have technical problems Bzzzzz wrong

4/4 well done!
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FollowupID: 308273

Follow Up By: Wil - Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 06:42

Thursday, Feb 12, 2004 at 06:42
Hi Guys

Don't get me wrong, I have a diesel myself. It just seems that the Patrol & LC100 manufacturers are trying to ignore the market and do not furnish consumer with the right features. IFS on 100, 3ltr to lug a big patrol around with the worry.., big 6 diesel Patrol but not with creature comfort....on and on
Yet the petrol models are complete with all the right feature and less to worry about. Search your feelings and the thread. Never a real problem with petrol models LC80 & all.

Just peace of mind 4x4...Life is too short for trouble.

Wil
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Reply By: Brad - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 18:02

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 18:02
IMHO......Toyota throughout the range (Prado vs Pathfinder, LC vs Patrol, 75 vs Patrol ute) are 10% better vehicle for 30% more money.
Regards,
Brad.
AnswerID: 46379

Reply By: Member - Tim&jan - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 19:17

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 19:17
TI models are not for me for the bush if you get the red mud in the carpets youll never get it out I would stick to the dx model easier to clean wot ever you decide youll be travelling. The toyo and nissans have there faults they dont like building perfect cars because we got to fix them, gives them more monee?gu bush basha
AnswerID: 46390

Reply By: GOB member vic - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 20:25

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 20:25
I have the gu 111 4.2 td and happy with it but if you go the nissan specify what tyres you want not mums taxi tyres

steveimagine a 03 gu 4.2tdin the picture
as i am having trouble sizing the picture
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Reply By: john - Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:32

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:32
Jesus man just buy a 3.2 td pajero. More power than the pair of them. You dont have to put up with space sucking rear fold up seats and crap road handling. The Pajero will take you 99% of places the others will go and you get traction control and stability control standard even on the base model. They eat the sand. Dont discount it.
AnswerID: 46422

Reply By: Eric.- Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:59

Wednesday, Feb 11, 2004 at 23:59
All I can say is dont pay 70 K for the GXL TD Landcruiser , you can get them alot cheaper than that Venus Bay
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Reply By: Johnny_100 - Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 11:45

Saturday, Feb 14, 2004 at 11:45
Go the 100 T/D it's magic.!!!

I paid less than 67,000 drive away with Auto, tow bar and Cooper ST's without fleet discount. You just need to hound the dealers and they will come good.

Johnny

AnswerID: 46666

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