rising costs

Submitted: Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 16:07
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Hi all, a recent post mentioned big 4 (Lancelin area WA) charging $50 a nite. as a member this checks out true ! last time I travelled, the average was $35 a nite for pwr site. sign of the times in WA?
One can only assume its a result of passing on costs- all utilities have increased for a start. I invite members to contact govt depts and accommodation providers ( c/van parks) and express their opinions. Maybe public opinion will curtail this trend.
don't think about trying to get a site in Karratha, port hedland or newman unless you've got your wallet handy and 6/12ths booked in advance. I paid $130 for 1 nite for 2 in a donga at a c/van park not long ago in newman. it was the only 1 avail in a park of about 500 people. they couldn't build them quick enough. the hotel/motel was $200 a nite if I remember rightly.

a single room in a house in hedland is $300-500 pw. the mining boom! . the law ( no 'free' camping in town or up to 20k out) favours monopoly style ownership and higher costs.

here's to happy retirement travels! BYO ATM
MG.
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Reply By: Shaker - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 16:38

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 16:38
Are you suggesting that it is wrong for businesses to pass on their rising overheads?

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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:13

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:13
Try being a farmer............

Our fuel bill last financial year was $87,000 up 7% YOY and electricity costs for irrigation pumps $104,000 up 19% YOY. Haven't found that magical person to pass the costs on yet.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:53

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:53
Yes electricity charges have increased enormously in the past few years and another increase from July 1 this year which has yet to multiply fully through the economy. There are many reasons but one is the carbon tax...one major power station in NSW had a carbon tax bill of $299million in 2012/13. This has to be passed on to consumers.
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Follow Up By: tazbaz - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:59

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:59
Main reason is privatisation - profit making by multinationals. The libs should never have facilitated this - but blind ignorance prevails. If its carbon tax that caused price increases then thats acceptable in my book because costs if pollution need to be met by the users. Economics 101.
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:29

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:29
Read my followup tazbaz.....I said "there are many reasons" for the electricity price rises. But its still a fact...$299m tax on just power station.
This forum is not the place (off topic) to debate whether or not we should or should not have a carbon tax.
Cheers
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Follow Up By: Herbal - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:43

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:43
87k for this and 104k for that? OK...So what was your profit. Or if you are embarrassed to state your profit, what was your takings?

No one in their right mind would spend $104,000 on water for a crop not worth at least millions!!!

There is no excuse for the prices quoted by the OP...There is a reason - GREED.

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Follow Up By: mikehzz - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 19:28

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 19:28
It's ok, when the carbon tax goes away they will all drop their prices....ha ha, just kidding :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - johnat - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 20:42

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 20:42
Yeah, mike, like that is a possibility!
The Carbon price was just an excuse the power companies used to increase prices. They'll not decrease their prices if/when the carbon price legislation is repealed. (I honestly don't think it will be, the government is all pi$$ and wind)
If this is not a place to discuss the carbon price, where is? Are we not affected? So, we should discuss the effect it has on us so we can make an informed choice at the next election.
Lyn is in the invidious position of having zero options - use the power and fuel OR grow nothing and make no income at all! Farmers sell their produce on the open market, where the BUYER decides what they'll pay for a product. Imagine Holden making a car and then asking people what they'll pay for it! This is what farmers do - they grow a crop with fixed (and rising) inputs, then sell to the highest bidder. IF there's plenty of others selling at the same time, the price is depressed (and so the farmer gets a lower return). And, because the crops are generally seasonal, there's every chance that there will be plenty of others selling at the same time.
Herbal doesn't seem to have a profile, so no way to see where he hails from, but assuming a city based person with NFI about the vagaries of weather, fuel/power costs, and the source of your daily bread!
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Follow Up By: Member - Wamuranman - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 21:22

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 21:22
"If this is not a place to discuss the carbon price, where is? Are we not affected? So, we should discuss the effect it has on us so we can make an informed choice at the next election."

Johnat please read carefully what I said re the carbon tax. I said this is not the forum to discuss whether or not we should have one....as that involves discussion about climate change, politics, level playing fields, philosophical arguments etc etc. That is why I said it is off topic here. Of course we can discuss the effects of a carbon tax and the carbon price...that is what we are doing. But please don't misrepresent what I said and perhaps read carefully what people say before commenting.
Cheers

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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 22:02

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 22:02
Interesting that you'd single out the carbon tax Wamuranman when it's actually a minor player in electricity cost increases and most taxpayers were compensated for its effect. That small part of electricity bills will certainly disappear if the tax is repealed but the biggest impact on stemming the flow of our dollars into energy company pockets is the change to rules linking prices to infrastructure investment - the so-called gold-plating they were allowed under the old (ludicrous) rules. That, and the over-the-top forward estimates of demand which were used to "fool" the regulator.
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 23:37

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 23:37
Remember to old joke..........
Someone asked a farmer what he would do if he won the Lotto..................
His answer was "Just keep on farming till its all gone"

Thanks Johnat for your excellent response.

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Follow Up By: Herbal - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 08:42

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 08:42
Quote from johnat - Herbal doesn't seem to have a profile, so no way to see where he hails from, but assuming a city based person with NFI about the vagaries of weather, fuel/power costs, and the source of your daily bread! - end quote

Do you have any idea? Or is it in fact you with NFI ?

Only members have a profile page! That might be a little confusing for you, let me explain. Personal Members have a profile page, Forum Members do not. Lyn W3 does not have a profile either, she is not a member! So that leaves your assumption of location = knowledge high and dry - In fact that makes you look like a chicken farmer, you have egg on your face!

At least the with the example given in the OP of the Law being changed or made, that a tent cannot be pitched with 20km is confirmable. One can even simply go to the caravan park and do a head count of tents and work out how much income they have!!

Lyn's almost sarcastic post of "try being a farmer" we spend 200K on fuel and power is not confirmable.

Just like the park owner twisting figures and screaming poor mouth to get a 20km buffer zone. It is all to easy for a "farmer" to twist figures by saying they spend 200k on fuel and power and conveniently omit what their income was...if they want to scream poor mouth to get a Government grant!!
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 10:10

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 10:10
OK seeing as were talking about WA power prices you might as well know the actual reason thy have jumped soo much.

while yes theres reasons like the carbon tax but the biggest reason is Under the state Labor government they were artificially held very low for a long time.
Great some might say .... Unless they opened there eyes

we had termite ridden poles being held up by hold ups holding up hold ups
most poles were in varying states of beginning to fall down.
pole top fires were a common occurance, fires were being started from falling and clashing powerlines regulary with losses to life and property.

the Libs put a stop to this and now you cant drive anywhere without going around pole replacement crews.
yes power has risen alot BUT its still cheap especially compared to other states. My typical bill is under $150.

power prices have risen but they had too and you can see where the money is going and if you think saving property and lives is gold plating ..... well......
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:28

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:28
Were we talking about WA electricity prices? Wamuranman actually mentioned a NSW power station's carbon tax.

In any case your generalised comments about the reasons for price increases in WA needs a bit more research - quite a bit more I'd suggest, as they bear little relation to facts.

There were news reports not long ago that Western Power, like their eastern states brothers, were playing the same game of overestimating their infrastructure needs in order to get the regulator to raise prices further. The WA state government doesn't mind because it actually "profits" from it, along with the energy companies and their executives, as this comment shows in The Conversation:

WA electricity prices

There's plenty more information out there on electricity costs in most states if you're really interested in facts rather than quaint anecdote. The main conclusion is that customer gouging, gold-plating, and gross overstating of power requirements are among the primary reasons for the massive increases in electricity prices across the country.
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Follow Up By: get outmore - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 19:46

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 19:46
id suggest you use your eyes

the state of our power poles was plain for all to see. Fires like at tenterton were caused by lack of maintenance and claimed lives as was the toodyay fires

also fact our power poles are now getting replaced at a huge rate - like I said , use your eyes

also fact our power prices were frozen under labor - thats just public record

Ill say it again anyone with eyes would have seen the state of our power distribution system - i used to comment on it looking 3rd world when you look down a street and all the poles are braced and some are leaning in others out
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Follow Up By: Bazooka - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 20:19

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 20:19
The facts on WA electricity prices are there whether you like or accept them or not. In this case your eyes tell you a tiny bit of the story. They could tell you a whole lot more if you bothered to actually read the huge amount of information and discussion available. It doesn't take billions of dollars to maintain and replace poles and lines.
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Follow Up By: fisho64 - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 23:37

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 23:37
statements like "powers cheap, my bills only $150" have to make any thinking person chuckle. Just like "my cars good on fuel-it does 700km on a tank"
How longs a piece of string!
We'd be better off if they didnt waste money on ridiculous windfarms which they then scam "green" consumers into paying extra for. Who regulates how many times over they sell the "clean" energy at a premium?
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Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:16

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:16
$130 a night for a caravan park, $2 of power and a shower! Probably a good reason to stay out of WA. I cant think of any good reason why that sort of money could be charged. Plenty of Oz to explore where nicer people are happy to take a much smaller portion of that rip off ! Leave it to the wealthy!! Its obvious why the free camp books are flying out of the bookshops! Michael
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Follow Up By: tazbaz - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:02

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:02
Well said Michael.
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Follow Up By: Member - Cruiser74 - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:23

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:23
Yes, well said but please don't generalise all of W.A. The south west and south coast are abundant with free and very cheap camp grounds. If you are self sufficient the most you will pay is $7 per person for a camp ground with basic facilities on top of your national park pass which if you are travelling costs $80 per year. Very good value and nothing like the places up north. Of course we're very happy for people to stay away if you don't believe me ;)
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:39

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:39
I have to say the south of WA is amongst the best, Esperance, Margaret River, Albany....and much more.. Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - Des Lexic - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 09:55

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 09:55
Michael, your comment about the free camp books flying out the shop door bought a smile to my face. I beleive that Camps Australia will no longer be printed as the buisiness was purchased byBig 4 to reduce the free camping options. Thankfully there are other options available.
Cheers Des
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Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:15

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:15
Des , most of those thousands of free camp books will still be ok in five years so big 4 will have to wait for that extra patronage. "Camping around Australia" is still available and they are expanding their state by state camp books. When the free camps books are not available any longer, that will be an opening for someone else to exploit the vacuum. Michael.
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Follow Up By: wombat100 - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:53

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 12:53
Hey Des Lexic
Is that 'tongue in cheek' or fair dinkum...
re Big4 buying out Camps Australia??

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Sunday, Nov 17, 2013 at 17:20

Sunday, Nov 17, 2013 at 17:20
According to this discussion and a quote said to be from the publishers, the story about Big 4 buying out Camps Australia Wide is not true. I have no idea re the truth of the story, but just pass this along
http://thegreynomads.activeboard.com/mobile.spark?p=topic&topic=53087204
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Reply By: Ron N - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:59

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 17:59
All the more reason to be fully self-contained and totally independent. I'm sick of the huge accommodation costs and the lack of competition in most of the country areas of Australia.
We've been to Europe several times since 2008, and travelled through France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, numerous Greek islands (including Crete) - and we got 4 star hotel accommodation for 1/3rd the cost of a pretty ordinary motel room in the North of Australia.

$50 a night in Europe gets you quite a nice 3 star hotel room, and campgrounds are substantially less. A 1L bottle of bottled water in Greece costs as little as 22 cents. A virtually-new hire car in Europe is $45 a day, all-inclusive. You pay that just for insurance excess reduction here. It's little wonder overseas tourists complain about costs in Australia.
AnswerID: 521514

Reply By: Dennis Ellery - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:40

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:40
Karratha, Pt Hedland and Newman are booming mining towns and I as a West Aussie wouldn’t holiday there in a fit. You should be able to find powered sites away from mining areas around the $30 mark off peak and around $40 to $50 peak period.
I travelled east in 2010 – we paid $70 night for spot in Byron Bay over new year – it was the pits.
AnswerID: 521517

Follow Up By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:55

Friday, Nov 15, 2013 at 18:55
Dennis, i have spent a bit of time at Byron Bay many years back, it was way over rated then and probably still is. Michael
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Reply By: Wayne's 60 - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 03:45

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 03:45
Hi Mike,

There are some interesting validities (is this a word??) to your comments ..... some are maybe notso.

With regard to your comments on the accommodation in Newman, NONE of the local "tourist" parks cater to the "TOURIST' anymore. Capricorn road house has very fancy accommodation that is aimed at the upper echelon mining sector, as do the other parks in Newman. We recently stayed at the Kalgan's rest caravan park. Sally and I thought that we were in the middle of a mine site camp (we have both been on site). Notices everywhere indicating that there are shift workers on site and to "BE QUIET!!"

THIS apparently DOES NOT APPLY TO THE MINE WORKERS AT FIVE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING!!
End of rant!! .........for now.

We understand that there are costs involved in a business ... like a caravan park.

To over charge your visitors by treating them like an open ended wallet .... is not on!!

BTW .... The Moss Vale caravan park does not appear to charge much less??
Go Figure!!

There are times when we are out on the road and after a time of free camping,
when we NEED a shower and we are very happy to pay a small fee for the services rendered.

FWIW fees for rooms in Newman are not too much below the room costs offered to FIFO people in Perth.

At the end of the day, we work hard for the few dollars that I earn per week. we get very little compensation from the big dollar earners in WA.

This will not stop us travelling.

Cheers,
Wayne & Sally.

AnswerID: 521534

Reply By: Member - Oldbaz. NSW. - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 08:34

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 08:34
G'day MG, I think increases in accom costs are a reflection of increasing operating costs..except in cases like the mining boom, where they reflect what the market will bear. This applies in monopoly tourist area too...Monkey Mia & Uluru come to mind.
Sometimes a Caravan Park will charge a lot more than others in the area for no apparent reason..usually reflected in low patronage. Then there are the really nice,
well located parks that are above average & charge accordingly...Woodman Point in
Freo being an example...very pleasant, even if a bit dearer.
Our strategy is as follows...
We consider ourselves "budget tourers" & as such research our camp spots very
thoroughly by studying the websites & other internet sources relevant to the location,
always referring to Badgers site, & even the images on Google. We make a selection
& mostly have a backup option, arriving early enough to change plans if it goes pear
shaped, always check the site before accepting it. We only book if popularity demands
it, & never travel in school holidays. We free camp where suitable .
This regime serves us well.
The only other point I make is that we don't cart heaps of supplies from home..we buy
as we need from local outlets. These businesses provide valuable support & rely on
tourist $$ to survive...much like Caravan Parks, I suppose..
cheers....oldbaz.
AnswerID: 521538

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 18:49

Saturday, Nov 16, 2013 at 18:49
I have to say that i'm a little tired of hearing about tight wad grey nomads, they free camp! We see it on here all the time, comments like, "they don't spend money in the towns or they come to town just to dump their rubbish off and don't spend anything. If a couple are on the road for a few months and they spend $10,000, it has to go somewhere! Everyone has different spending patterns and different routes so the money will be split fairly equally amongst the towns. And who goes to Longreach without going to see the Stockman's Hall of Fame. It all costs! Michael
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Follow Up By: Member - mike g2 - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 00:37

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 00:37
Hi all again, I'm impressed with how comment on costs went into a debate on carbon tax. wouldn't say we were grey nomads on a tight wallet either! have 95% of the time paid for c/van sites and are members of 2-3 of the larger c/van park groups. like most, there is a budjet and spending $ in your own country has something going for it. fair point about farmers- some are doing it tough if anything you hear or read is an indication. as my memories of basic economics in school are rusty, I must admit I should have remembered the effects of inflation on costs. the govt has just increased our debt ceiling by a few millions or so.. is that why all those boat people want to come here?
someone once said 'the poor' are well off here compared to the good old US of A. one could get into all sorts of 'academic discussion' on issues of the almighty dollar, rich vs poor , politics or religion . world peace here we come....

all for now. M.
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Reply By: AlbyNSW - Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:30

Wednesday, Nov 20, 2013 at 08:30
Not just the western states.
At Broken Hill NSW Big4 ,we were charged $75.00/ night for an unpowered campsite for a family of 4 in June 2010.
They were that busy that the only spot they could offer us was to setup in the gravel car park.
AnswerID: 521754

Follow Up By: Member - mike g2 - Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 10:12

Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 10:12
$75 a nite unpowered!? your kidding.
why so busy? I'll look them up in big4 site. MG
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:14

Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 11:14
MG, not sure if there was an event on or what at it was just a quick overnighter and back on the road heading for home, it was in school holiday period though.
I remember we had our 2 man tent set up next to a large motorhome and were warching his TV through the window LOL
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FollowupID: 802841

Follow Up By: Member - mike g2 - Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 20:36

Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 20:36
doesn't seem to be a big4 there now. c/van park that is- family parks- charges under $30 a nite for pwr site.
MG.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 21:21

Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 21:21
Not sure Mike, havent been back,It was on the western side of town on the northern side of the road.
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Follow Up By: AlbyNSW - Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 21:34

Saturday, Nov 23, 2013 at 21:34
MG I just had a quick look on The Broken Hill tourist park you referred to and if you put in two adults and two kids it says $49 for an unpowered site. I also tried a holiday period and the pricing was blanked out.
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