the best tow vehicle

You'll need more than deep pockets for fuel. I gave away F-trucks after being shafted continuously for spare parts costs. Way back in 1980 just a grille for a 4WD F-100 was $600 - and back then $8000 bought you a new Holden ute and $12,000 bought you a new 'Cruiser.

The injectors for the 7.3 Ford diesel V8 were around $1400 EACH at one stage. They've probably dropped a bit now - but St John in W.A. disposed of all their F-truck based Ambulances because the cost of maintaining them was horrendous.

They bought diesel Mercedes and they had money to burn with the substantially lower purchase costs and running costs - and with Mercedes, that's saying something, too!

I ran an F-350 service truck for a while, with the 4.1 Falcon motor - and that was a little better on running costs. However, the prices for everything F-truck have always been just for people with large sums of money to burn.

Cheers, Ron.

Ahhhh so much has changed in the last 30 years , but some still live there!.

Many parts are available ex USA by the world wide web at prices that can be cheaper than local prices for local vehicles.

Why did you asume that i was talking about a V8.

Well Bob, if you're referring to the mid-2000's F250's that were sold direct through Ford dealers, they were all V8's, you had the 5.4 petrol "Triton" V8, the 7.3 diesel "Powerstroke" V8 and then later another V8 diesel whose capacity escapes me at the moment but I don't think it was as reliable as the 7.3

[Quote] "Many parts are available ex USA by the world wide web at prices that can be cheaper than local prices for local vehicles." [end Quote]

Yes, and nothing has changed in the 36 yrs since I bought my first new 4WD F-100. F-truck still = rip-off.

F-truck parts are still 3 times the price of every other make - and it must be good fun waiting 4 weeks for your parts to arrive from the U.S., and paying another 30% on top for ridiculous freight costs from the U.S.

Tried air-freight from the U.S. lately for your urgent larger parts that you can't post? No, I thought not. Either that, or you just hand the exorbitant bill to the client and let him worry about it.

I guess if you have unlimited money, this kind of thing doesn't bother you - but most of us live in the real world, where every dollar counts.

Road Warrior...... Ford offered the 4.2lt six cylinder turbo diesel in the F250 as well in the early to mid 2000's.

We have a few customers who have them and they are a good vehicle.

"Tried air-freight from the U.S. lately for your urgent larger parts that you can't post? No, I thought not. Either that, or you just hand the exorbitant bill to the client and let him worry about it."

You seem to think a lot?

Yes we are freight a far bit of stuff out of the USA (at least every two weeks), most stuff now come air freight, the only stuff that doesn't is bulk container and heavy/large items or if you use a shipping agent who containerised there freight.

Most of our air freight is 5-7 days ex USA and we use USPS for small stuff or UPS for larger..... sea is 8-12 weeks.

Freight costs are not based on the price of the goods so you % figures is wrong.

May I suggest a better shipping agent or carrier.

There are many on here who source out of the USA and air freight in, what's the big deal!

"Either that, or you just hand the exorbitant bill to the client and let him worry about it."

Well who do you think would pay for freight, if our customers want something of course they are going to pay freight..... what world do you live in?

You argument is not very valid...... if something is cheaper including freight from OS it doesn't really matter what the freight cost is and if it is cheaper here I would expect one to use their brain and go with the cheaper option.... something you don't seem to do.

"I guess if you have unlimited money, this kind of thing doesn't bother you - but most of us live in the real world, where every dollar counts."

Sorry you have lost me, isn't this the idea of buying something cheaper to be able to make every dollar count.

Gotta agree, I have bought a lot of stuff from the US and often it will arrive quicker than things bought on line in Australia, plus they are more often than not delivered to your door by FedEx. My recent purchase is a spa pump delivered to my door at more than half the cost of buying the same in Australia

Definitely X2

If you want second best :-)

2nd best ??......spill the beans then ??

Love my 200 series x 3

Me toooooo

Ha ha Gary....I know what you mean.
Personally been there, done that.
Brett.....

i have driven trucks for 40 years and would never tow a van with a 4 cylinder ute.after so many years being stuck behind them i know that there not up to the job.i have been behind a couple of rigs recently towed by f250,s and was impressed with there towing ability.the only reason i thought about the nissan was there torque.

I know where you are coming from Bob.
I think they are asking too much from 4 cylinders these days as well.

The cruisers and Patrols are no slouches I can assure you.
Especially the latest generation of Cruisers.

Go take one for a test drive, you might be surprised.

Cheers, Bruce.

I realy dont want a v8 they are just too dear to register and insure for an old bugger like me.

Well Bob if you don't want a 4 cyl and you like Fords what about the 5 cyl 3.2 litre turbo diesel Ranger.
It has just won the 2013 best 4x4 dual cab ute category in Australia's Best Cars.
The latest model delivers 470 Nm torque at just 1500rpm and has more pulling power than Toyota's 70 series 4.5 V8 diesel.
It is rated at 3500kg towing capacity.
I would think you would have no trouble towing your van at 100 or 110 kph with a Ranger.
Cheers

I agree the Ranger would be a good choice for a dual cab or if you wanted a wagon then a Disco 4 SDV6 - not a V8, more room than a 200 series on the inside, smaller on the outside, similar power and torque, comfortable and tows 3.5t with ease.

Cheers

Garry

Bob W8,

Here in NSW, for an old bugger like me, registration is free, one per "Poor Old Pensioner".

That means the car is registered free and the van is registered free also as it is owned by the Chief Minister who is also a poor old bugger like us. LOL

Insurance on the V8 cruiser costs around the $700 mark given our location or post code, after shopping around.

All up, no penalty as far as I can see for owning and driving a V8 in NSW or most other vehicles for that matter, for the poor old buggers here. LOL.

Good luck with your search Bob.

Cheers, Bruce.

" I realy dont want a v8 they are just too dear to register and insure for an old bugger like me"

Bob, might want to check your numbers. I just renewed my 200series V8 registration - cost $833 for 12 months. My previous vehicle was a 6 cyl Landcruiser tratop and it cost over $1000.
My insurance is the same - $600 a year.

Beware of the cost of registering a ute!

In any case an extra couple of hundred dollars is nothing compared to other costs of ownership.

thanks phill but i don't live in sa and neither would i.And for Bruce i cant afford to pay what the charge for electricity in nsw and furthermore in qld we get very little as pensioners. usually the only thing is they drop the gst and that's all.And garrycol i have heard nothing but BAD reports on the ranger.even the coppers that use them in nsw think there death traps and don't like driving them.

Gee Bob every time someones makes a suggestion they get shot down in flames. But I think I can see where you are coming from now. You want a 6 cyl vehicle and preferably one that is easy and cheap to service and repair. But one that has plenty of torque for towing. You probably prefer the older technology engines (like the F250 with 6 cyl ).
Well here is a suggestion. An earlier model Nissan Patrol Extra Cab with the reliable 4.2 turbo diesel with coil suspension (and air bags). Plenty of torque for towing, economical to service and repair (do it yourself). 3500kg towing capacity as well. What could you not like about such a vehicle. Does that suit???

I have to agree but to be fair Bob was only interested in views on the Navara and F250. Now these vehicles are like chalk and cheese with completely different capabilities which does seem to indicate that Bob doesn't really know what he is interested hence I can understand people offering different options based on the information that Bob has provided.

My brother did have a F250 turbo diesel and really couldn't wait to get rid of it as it was one of the most unreliable vehicle it had. Given the size of its massive engine it had average performance and its huge engine reflected its huge fuel consumption for a diesel.

However it does seem Bob is locked into his two selected vehicles so I guess we have to accept he is not interested in anything else and is really looking for confirmation in his choice, rather than views that may indicate he has made a bad choice which he suspects - in psychological terms it is called Cognitive Dissonance.

garrycol you can be so wrong. what i was looking at originally was a tow vehicle that has good torque at low revs with a tow capacity between 3000 an d 3500 kgs. there are heaps of vehicles out there that meet that standard but you are wringing there necks to get to the good torque range (more revs = more fuel). the Nissan and the ford just happened to be the two vehicles that i found that met that criteria.Cognitive Dissonance indeed. i suggest a few more days in school.

Bob,
it looks like many who answered believe you are looking at the Diesel 250 and Navara.

The way I read it is you are looking at the petrol versions. Maybe wrong though.

Whatever you do make sure you buy a white one.

Wamuranman you have hit the nail on the head. I had considered the patrol and the Toyota but i consider them both to have a to high torque range.But in all fairness neither vehicle has been discounted completely.

Slow one You are definitely wrong mate Diesel and nothing but Diesel. Oh and nothing but a white one with a wireless in it. lol

Bob,
it is a pity Motherhen hasn't chimed in with some info, as they have travelled extensively with a 250 Effy.

Mate has a 250 and pulls a 5th wheel float carrying rodeo horses. Those narrow chested 1/4 horse trick ponies weigh a fair bit and he says it tows with ease. He is also very happy with the fuel consumption.

Parts out of the states are cheap, if you look around at the parts + freight you can get them landed here in 5 days at a reasonable price.

Have a look at this. If you get one of these, you may think your in the saddle of a T908.

Australian Silverado

Slow one mate i read upon your link and passed it through the minister for finance. The answer was that you and I would be knee caped if i ever spent $115.000 on a car. Soooooo back to the Nissan or ford. But they sure read very well .

Bob,
I know you have heard the Ranger/ BT50's are dangerous from someone in uniform. In my instance this is not the case. I do own one and I must admit I haven't raced it around a V8 super car track, but I have never had any problems with it. This is towing/4wding and general use.

Beats me. They are a bit funny in the rear end when unloaded, but a police one would have plenty of weight in it.

Thanks SlowOne that is a good link and is one I had not read before (although I am always searching for stuff on the Silverado).
The only aspect that I would disagree with is the low 20's fuel consumption when towing. That may be so if you are towing 10 tonnes but all the owners I have spoken to personally over the past 3 years have been getting 17 18/lt per 100km when towing vans 3 to 3.5 tonnes. This was better than the 19 to 20 we ever got with the 200 series.
About the cost $115,000. Yes Bill it is a lot of money but its about the same ballpark figure as a Landcruiser Sahara. Except with the Silverado you get far more truck for your money and it is already to go with electric brakes, towing mirrors etc.
I read a review done in USA on them and towing a 7.5 tonne trailer down a steep mountain in Colorado the exhaust brakes actually retarded the vehicle.They are that good.
I can't wait to get one in 2014.
Cheers

Wamuranman,
lots of people like to hang crap on yankee vehicles, the truth is the world has changed and so have they to some extent.

Towing big loads nothing beats yank tanks. LOL.

Many people don't move with the times and quote vehicles that are 20 years old.

For serious towing nothing beats the big bangers for life and ability.

I can't afford, either the ford or chevy, but if I could, I wouldn't think twice.

These vehicles don't suit Bob, but they are very capable of towing big load very easily.

I would love for Motherhen to give towing figures for their trips with a big van.

Yes Slow One I agree. From the ones I have inspected the quality appears very good. The LTZ has all leather trim, heated seats, extendable towing mirrors, electric brakes, exhaust brakes etc etc already fitted.
I believe if Chev ever decided to manufacture a RHD model and export it to Australia they could land it here for about $80,000.(RHD conversion costs about $35K and the importers who do the conversion just buy at retail prices in USA).
If that ever eventuated it would smash Landcruiser sales to smitherines. I was interested to learn from Silverado owners I have met that almost all of them (from memory) were ex 200 series owners.
There is an increasing demand for the big 3 yank tanks in Australia as vans get bigger and heavier and demand for 5th wheelers increases. Heavy vans like Bushtracker really do need something bigger than a 200 series (at least the larger models anyway). Look at the Harrison F-Truck website to see how many new F trucks they have in their yard for sale. When I visited Performax at Gympie they had about 80 Silverados to choose from. So its big business in Australia converting these 3 yank tank models.
Cheers'

Best may not always mean the most powerful and biggest rig !!

It may also mean the best allround towing rig.....now that could mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people..

A list for me ( and I repeat me ) would be the ability to also go offroad ( with or without the van )...price....comfort when towing ( and when not )...ease of parking ( at home and at say a shopping centre )...dealer network....reliability....

I think the 200 would win on that criteria.....but for sheer towing ability, sure, the Silverado wins hands down !!

The 6.6 is designed by Isuzu and manufactured by GM.

Yes you are correct olcoolone.
It has by all accounts gained a good reputation for a trouble free engine. It was first released in 2001 as the LB7 with a upgrade/enhancements to engine about every 3 or 4 years (LLY, LBZ, LMM). The current version from 2011 is the LML. But the engine has been a proven performer now for 13 years.
Specs say "engine has been developed to operate for at least 200,00 miles on a rough-duty cycle without the need for a major overhaul" . Thats 320,000km in our language.
I like the idea the engine has been around for awhile and is well proven in its field for reliability and robust performance.
The added benefit of Isuzu design is that any truck mechanic anywhere in Australia who has worked on Isuzu trucks can probably have a good go at fixing a Silverado should the need arise.

QUOTE [The added benefit of Isuzu design is that any truck mechanic anywhere in Australia who has worked on Isuzu trucks can probably have a good go at fixing a Silverado should the need arise.]

You would have the same amount of luck trying to get Hyundia to fix it.

Being a mechanic I and the rest have to same basic training but what sets one apart from another is product knowledge, not skills.

It's only an engine.

This is my GMC Sierra 2007 Classic 3500HD SLT LBZ on the power line tracks in Perth. A Toyota LC 200 tried to follow but got stuck, maybe it was the driver though :).

I drive it regularly and also park in the city if I have to, usually take 4 spots because the morons bang into your doors without even considering it being something indecent.

So far it has not seen a workshop since I have my own Tech II diagnostic computer (which you cannot buy for a Toyota at least not at the time of my decision). I can do all the service myself and do not need an overpaid mechanic. Parts are a fraction of the cost of any Jap vehicle. For example my main engine computer spare was $280. I have all electronic devices in the truck as spares and that was under $600.

Bearings with hub assembly are $64 and a brake rotor is $212 as a spare for example. I bought the truck myself in the US and had it converted in QLD before the conversion cost went crazy. A glow plug was $11. A set of injectors can be had for less than $300 (for 8 - yes for 8) the only thing is you need a Tech II to program the flow, which I can do and no I am not a diesel mechanic. Most information here on the American trucks is grossly wrong.

F250 get hot, we also have on (7.3) towing a goosneck horse float for 4.5t. Does not even have a transmission temp gauge standard, where all this is not a problem with the GMC or Silverado (the twin sister) for that matter. Crew cab and still long bed (more space efficient than the F250) and all the bells and whistles one could want.

I have done Warren beach (the steep dune where most need 3-4 runs to get up) in one easy go, because I do not sink in deep precut tracks from all the LCs.

We had a Nissan Navara for a while as a property vehicle to tow a hay trailer to feed the horses, I would not want to travel long distance in that thing.

Silverados are cheaper than a Toyota Sahara and the two cannot even be compared. It is a bit like a camper trailer and a caravan or something like that. We run the GMC as a truck at 5.2t (yes you need a truck license) and it is fully depreciated though the business since a truck is not part of the 54k company car rule.

We bought the truck while we had the cash flow and in 12 months from now we are off and go traveling for 3-5 years. The fuel consumption is totally acceptable to me, as a city driver I get 16l/100 and I do not drive it slow, I use my 400 horses especially when I towed the boat and had the camper on top.



So please if you only speculate and have never owned one of these vehicles don't spread the misinformation. I am happy to answer questions if there are any. I have done a bit to that truck including airbags and a very strong steering upgrade, long range tank and other things.

regards
gmd

Thanks gmd for that first hand confirmation.
I have yet to come across a Silverado (or GMC) owner who is not absolutely stoked with their truck.
I agree there really is no comparison with the Sahara in terms of what you get in the Chev truck....but I was merely pointing out that they are a similar price range.
If you have the LBZ engine there have been two upgrades since then (LMM and now LML) each with more HP. I think the emissions system have changed as well...in the LML you have a small tank of that blue fluid. But apparently the LML is more fuel efficient (according to Chev specs).
Where did you buy the Tech II diagnostic computer and what was the cost (if you don't mind me asking)? Would you recommend others to get one if they own a Silverado?
What other mods did you do to your truck...did you consider a 150mm exhaust?
Thanks for the heads up on your truck.
Cheers

gmd,
That's a great set up you have, and a great example of having a vehicle to suit your requirements. You've obviously thought it through. That setup would be ideal up north in the Kimberleys where a boat can really make a different to how much fun you can have. I can imagine the great fishing to be had off Exmouth for example.
WBS

to Wamuranman:

The Tech II was purchased through the dealer network and is a GM tool which is also used here for all Holdens. It is just loaded with different software and one can do an update for the latest models. I bought it through an US dealer and the Tech II plus Candy module (for the newer network in the truck - at the time) and the whole workshop manual with all service and repair diagnostics was A$ 4500.-

The LMM and the LML all have more complicated emission control. Mine was one of the last LBZ built and I ordered it deliberatly because I did not want the LMM. Mine was built on 26th of August 2006 and a couple of days later the Flin factory was retooled for the LMM.

I have the BD manifold, which gets rid of the kink in the breather
have other mods for better engine breathing including a 6" stainless steel exhaust front to back with additional muffler .. I like my trucks quiet. I have the leveling kit installed which brings up the front and has the dual shock assembly (Bilstein) with pitman idler enforcement. Pyro gauge before turbo, additional fuel filter with lift pump after the 260l long range tank. A Sterling bull bar, a DC DC charger and 440AH Batteries on the bed, double Alternators, rear Airbags, a decent onboard air system with a 100amp compressor, and many more things including my large HF antenna, HF and UHF/VHF radios (I have a ham licence - VK6GMD).

Recommend a Tech II ? Well, I had 3 problems from conversion where the guys made a boo boo: 1 was a stretched wire in the HVAC harness which led to hot air from the driver side, another one was a leaking aircon hose after 2 years - it was crimped wrong and third a missing hose clip on the right front which lead to rubbing the ABS sensor line on the back of the wheel. All this would probably have been covered by the warranty with the conversion, but I did it myself abd it was quicker and much less hasel than leaving it with a repairer who did not even have a Tech II. I can service the truck in all aspects, injector flow, transmission relearn, real time monitoring the engine and extremities if something is wrong -- I occasionally had a check engine light coming on when towing the boat and putting the foot down uphill when I was passing Caravans and Trucks puffing up the slope. I have a sensitive turbo and will get a replacement now from the US - just in case, but I know it was nothing serious so far, I am running a tune - programmed with the Diablo Sport Predator, but I do not use the max setting, since I do not have my Suncoast Transmission kit installed. It is on order with a few other things from the US right now, including tyres and an ABS trailer brake system which is directly integrated in the vehicles OBDII bus. So not a break controller which guesses what you do by sensing enertia but one which gets the info from the vehicles brake system, and the good thing still much cheaper than a local brake actuator which does not even have ABS.
I loos a couple of litres per 100 due to the additional weight and the wider tyres and the roof rack as well as light beam accross the top - not on the picture - oh I forgot - have a hydraulic winch in the box at the front on the bull bar.

Coming back to the Tech II and recommendation: I do not know if you want to spend serious money on the diagnostic computer but for me it is a nono to buy a vehicle and go bush, get a check engine light in the middle of nowhere and have no idea what is wrong, and that also would apply to any other vehicle. It would make me nervous. Also knowing that you pay good money for the dealer just to read a code is like putting speed cameras in a 80 zone which is a 500m long. This is entrapment, maybe it is just me but my peace of mind is worth $4500 or even more and I guess it will pay off when I do need serious servicing. There are cheaper solutions now - not at the time
Scan tool
also
scan tool 2
You will get away with much less money nowadays. At the time the GM module did not support the new bus (Can-Bus) and it took a couple of years for the guys to catch up. So I decided to have the original dealer equipment, today I would buy Autoingenuity no doubt.

Any more questions ?

here a couple of pics with my radio stuff

above is the Hi-Q 6" coil HF 160m - 10m antenna

above you see the radios with the 10" pc screen which is a full Windows 7 system (used to be XP) running 2 different navigation programs, my mp3's directly into the head unit of the truck with additional cabeling. Have internet and all the 8 cameras can show on the screen as well. Have an alarm system with voice output and proximity sensors.At the moment I rewire the cockpit with a custom roof console and computer controlled output and sensors via a TCP/IP bus. I am building a Caravan and will have the airbag pressures and cameras and other switches for the caravan wired to the TCP/IP module in the truck and can check and set everything through the touch screen. Why I am doing this ? Just for fun, because I can. I love gadgets as you can tell . lol
have fun
gmd

oops forgot to paste the link for the interior picture


hmm.. I thought I did .. but something went wrong

to WBS:

I sold the boat in the meantime and soon the truck camper will be history too , I am taking things out for my caravan project. Was a good setup but not enough space to live long term. I am working on a canopy for the truck and it will take my motorbike and an inflatable dinghy and will have the Kajaks on the top. The setup is more flexible than 5th wheelers, which I consider a waste of space for our purpose since we would have needed a toy hauler and we did not like the height of it. So I am building a 7.4m Caravan with a custom airbag suspension taking my wheels, so I only have to carry 2 spares and not 4 .

I forgot to mention that I have 3m Scotch Guard all around the paintwork of the truck, it is scratch resistant and holding up well. It was installed in the US and the Aussie shrubs have not yet penetrated it .. supposedly it has a life of 5-7 years, but it still looks like new.
Have fun
gmd

Wow gmd what a great set up.
No wonder you need two alternators and a 440ah battery to drive all that electronic stuff LOL
Thanks for all the helpful information.
I will print your response out and keep it for future reference.
I think I will get a bullbar and a 150mm stainless steel exhaust but that would be all to start with.
Might see you out on the road one day.
Cheers
GPM

I don't have mine yet so I can't speak from experience but I don't think it would be too difficult. If necessary just use a parking bay on the outside where there is more than one vacant together. On their way home from work I have seen plenty of tradies trucks (eg concreters) parked at Woolies car park. Some of their trucks would be bigger than the Silverado. They just use 2 bays end on end.
I am interested in the Standard Tray (extended cab) model Silverado and not the long tray one. This one has a wheelbase of 3660mm and an overall length of 5833mm.

Cheers

Yes. Parking a Ranger at a supermarket can even be a problem. Length of the vehicles is similar, Silverado is wider. I wouldn't go hunting for the park nearest the doors at woollies in one.

I think you may find it hard to find any/many who have the 2 vehicles you asked about .....but as others have said......they sure are 2 completely different vehicles !!

like i said in another post I have been a truckie for the last 40 yrs and i don't want a vehicle that is good at towing at 85 to 90 kmh. I want to be able to cruise on 100kmh plus because i know first hand how FRUSTRATING it is following a van at that speed when your trying to make a living.

Bob, I think you will find most of the current Dual Cab 4cyl TD's will happily tow any caravan at 100kmh (my Triton 2.5L will with my 2.6t van) which is the legal maximum in most states as you, as a truckie would know.

The vans traveling at 85 - 90kmh are doing that by driver choice not car necessity as they are NOT trying to make a living.

Yes, the travelling at 85-90km speed is my choice, including, and most of all, for safety reasons, not to mention fuel economy etc.

I could easily pull the van at 100Km, but why??

I am not trying to make a living, but trying to stay alive, and make no apologies for that view.

Plus it's great not to have to rush through this great land we live in.

Thats good first hand confirmation ttt.
I have spoken to every Silverado owner I have caome across in our travels over the past 3 years. First hand experience is always the most valuable.
Can you enlighten me on who Scoresby is? Is that a location or business name? Googled it but did not help. I am in Qld so have been focussed on Performax but am willing to travel for the best deal (as long as the quality of RHD conversion is the same). Thanks.

Bob, I owned a 4.1L 6 cyl-powered F-350 for a few years back in the early 1990's. It was a good little truck, but the 4.1L is still a little underpowered for a truck and caravan combination.

Fuel consumption was around 23 to 28L/100km at hwy speeds, because the 4.1L is quite low-geared.

You'll be struggling to find a good F-250 with the 4.1L, with modest kms today. They're getting to be an old truck.

The F-truck parts are a rip-off, they have always been a rip-off. I know one F-truck wrecker and parts dealer who is a multi-millionaire - and he didn't make that fortune by winning the Lotto.
I got rid of both my 4WD F-100 and my F-350 purely because they were too expensive to own and operate.

Go for the V6 diesel Navara, they have adequate power to pull a van at hwy speeds.

ron n just wondering if the gear ratios are the same in the f350 and the f250 also diff ratios make a world of difference.

Bob, the 4 speed New Process transmission is exactly the same in both of the 4.1L powered, earlier F-250 and F-350 models. The diff ratio is lower in the F-350.

I just had a thought - maybe the later F-250 with the 4.2L 6 cyl diesel is the way for you to go. These units use the VM 6 cyl diesel engine, and they are quite a good vehicle.
Not so heavy on fuel as the 7.3L V8 diesel - and all the blokes I know that own them are wrapped in them - and they don't show up used, very often - which is indicative of a good vehicle.

The 5 speed tranny is a must nowadays, 4 speeds are just too thirsty.
Here's a 4.2L F-250 with a 5 speed manual, with modest kms, for sale.
I still personally think the F-trucks are an over-priced vehicle, but we buy what we decide is best for our requirements.

http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/gilles-plains/cars-vans-utes/2002-ford-f250-rm-xl-4x4-white-5-speed-manual-super-cab-chassis/1025099256

Cheers, Ron.

thank you for that mate.That is the sort of feedback that i have been chasing that you know blokes who are either happy or disgruntle with f250 six cylinder diesel or the Nissan v6 diesel navara. I have my eye on a f250 2002 in brisvagas for $34000 with 115000 on the clock and a 2011 Nissan with 50000 on it. THANK YOU.

PS i dont think theres a car in this country that is,nt over priced

Could you please tell me is your navara a four or six cylinder.

we can certainly tow at 100 with it but prefer a more leisurely pace that ensures we can stop safely if needed in a hurry (have had several blow-outs without incident or damage)