Fuel Dockets

Good points, but I think you have missed the point why they did it. It has been proven that the actions of Coles and Woolworths has caused the increase in the cost of fuel for everyone. The money you say you have saved is a false saving. Maybe they should have taken this action a while back, but something had to be done. Kevin

Its good its coming to an end BUT nothing will change, when you open the market to competition in an ideal world it results in lower prices......... In this case all it has done is allowed the only two and the biggest by a mile to control for their greed and profit four of life's biggest and most needed commodities being fuel, alcohol, groceries and hardware with a fifth commodity insurance and the sixth being pharmaceuticals on their target.

A country that only has two retailers who sell everything needed in day to day life does not make it competitive.

A largish shopping centre 10 minutes from us has two large Coles stores in it with in 3 minutes walking distance from each other, all this to reduce competition by not allowing another brand in...... So much for anti competitive laws and regulations.

For the last 8 months we have been using Aussie Farmers Direct for 95% of our food, brilliant quality, hassle free and in most cases cheaper then Coles and Woolies plus most of their produce is locally sourced..... For every thing else we use a locally owned Foodland and then occasionally the other two.

Greed is not good for anyone, even the share and stake holders.

I'm a bit bemused by all this. The original argument was to protect the independent operators who could not compete with the prices on offer from the majors. But the independent operators did not keep fuel prices down. They admitted they could not compete. So why protect those that cannot compete?

I shop in the major supermarkets, and where I could, saved on my fuel costs using the card, especially when travelling. Up to 18 cents per litre. More on special promotions. But conversely, when buying fuel locally I use either of two independents because I like the people.

This is a case of where we are, once again, completely over-governed, with gutless politicians swinging like wheat in the wind to appease any minority that will give them a positive headline.

I'm quite disillusioned with what we have leading our country and state. Quite frankly, we just don't seem to have enough grassy knolls :)

Rant ends ... time for a nice wine.

Jack

I filled up with Diesel at the new Costco Sore at Crossroads (near Liverpool Sydney) at Xmas and it was 22c cheaper than Woolies. The new store in Brisbane should be open in a couple of months.

I publish a trade magazine in the industry and I can promise that Coles and Woolworths aren't so much competing against each other as they are going after operators in other retail channels. They tried pharmacy and failed. But now they pretty much dominate liquor, pubs, poker machines, hardware, fresh meat and greens and jointly control 80% of the Australian dry grocery market as well as 50% of the retail fuel market. In no other country would this be allowed to happen.

This came to pass after John Howard's government relaxed the Trade Practices legislation governing excessive market power. He was conned. And so were we.

Yet our groceries are expensive compared to similar countries overseas. People from overseas arriving here to work in the trade are amazed at the high wholesale and retail profit margins here and openly refer to Australia as "Treasure Island".

Try buying groceries in New Zealand. You get the same stuff, from a smaller independent supermarket, for less money and your groceries are put in bag for by extra staff at the checkout. At least that was the case when I last shopped there two years ago.

IGA, supplied by Metcash, can't get the same prices because Metcash does not have the same grocery volume or enough muscle to bully suppliers. Some of the supermarket discounts, like milk, are genuine and came after the milk processors dropped their pants for the supermarkets, selling milk to them at cost. So the milk processors make it up by overcharging the smaller independent stores.

The same goes for products on promotion, where other stores, like corner stores and independent liquor stores actually go in and buy their stock from the supermarkets, because their own suppliers cannot compete when these items are on special. 15% of the stock in an average metro corner store is sourced from a supermarket. In the bush it's 25%. 87% of independent local stores buy soft drinks from supermarkets. How can that be right?

Supermarket specials hide the fact that everything else is overpriced. A big fuel discount is funded by overpriced groceries. That's why the system is broken and requires some remedial action if consumers are ever going to get a fair go.

Keith (My rave for the day)

The average fill for most people is 50L which at 4cents a litre equates to $2,,,apart from the fact that 2 bucks wont even buy a drink (rather get a free drink with every fill),,,do you really think that 2 bucks wasnt more than compensated for in your grocery bill?
I never use dockets and shop at Franklins saving more on my groceries compared to wollies prices than any docket would give me.
My son works for wollies they are tight fisted R-solariums who wont cough up anything unless they benefit in some way. You are paying more in the end.

I got 40cents a lt off yesterday with Coles/Shell in Inverell. Quiet handy when you put in the max 150lts

I support my local servo/corner store when on at home, he is a 150 metres away. He is always 5 cents cheaper all the time compared to the bigger names. So hopefully if all the locals support him, he will be there when I need him for other things he sells. He also employs a couple of guys in their 30s and run the operation 24/7. Otherwise if we use shopper dockets elsewhere, the station will end up a boarded up eyesore covered in graffiti ! Michael

As far as I understand it, Coles have cut back from 8c to 4c shopper dockets. I doubt you'd be saving anything here now.

They even cut back the flybuys deal where you could "buy" a further 10c discount with your flybuys points. I don't see how the ACCC can find that anti-competitive as it is really not much different than buying a food mixer with your points.

Also, I have never seen anything like 40c discounts posters have mentioned here.

I and my family own an independent agricultural business, we have been approached by the two big ones, who wanted to get into bed with us and promised all sorts of support. When we declined their offers, they said that they were prepared to buy 30% of business in the area and did not care if they made any money and someone would bleed to death, they then said that when we were gone they would then just put their prices up.
Since then one of them is in financial trouble with their share price fallen through the floor and we are still making a profit even if a bit less but we are still here. They are all the same and will cross subsidise one area to gain market share in another.

I can remember a survey a few years age when not all grocery stores had fuel dockets. The survey group bought the same items from the same company at stores that had fuel dockets and ones that did not. There was a difference of $7.00 between the stores that had fuel dockets and the ones that didn't. So your 4 cents would not be a discount until after you bought 175 litres of fuel. But thats marketing.
Lindsay.

Someone in the grocery trade recently told me, that for every dollar you spend Coles (Westfarmers) and Woollies get 70 cents. Competition ??? I don't think.

As has been said, its is these large conglomerates business, to DOMINATE the market in any area thay trade.

They want to be THE dominate player or one of no more than two or three dominat players....in an economy as small as ours it takes government regulation to ensure there remain three or more major players in a given market.

Their desire for dominance goes further then the wider market, they want a dominant share of your total personal spend.....there are statistics generated to calculate this.

Wesfarmers for examle.....owners of Coles.
Owns
Coles and everything that spins from it, that is BILO, Kmart, Target and their associated business.

Associated with that is the Alcahol business, that includes 1st choice liquor, vintage sellers, liquorland 810 liquor outlets in all and over 92 hotels....in some states it has to own the hotels to operate the stand alone liquor stores.....Coles has been critisies in the business press for not being agressive enough in it liquor business)

In the hardware and industrial market it own Bunnings ( that directly or indirectly concentrated 3 major chains), Blackwoods, Bulivants, Protector Allsafe, safety source, total fasteners, Packaging house and sundry subsiduary businesses

While in the indistrial area they have a variety of interests in chemical production and own one of the two dominant industrail gas suppliers Air Liquid, as well as Kleen heat gass.

In addition they also own, Harris Technology ( computers), Howard smith ( hardware distribution),Katies fashon, Loyalty Pacific ( a loyalty programe compay that adminsiters flybuys among others), Tyremasters and world for kids....among others.

In most areas they are dominant players not only do they controll a large slab of the retail or trade market , but they have a dominant share of the distribution...so smaller competitors have to buy from them.

So they are well and truly able to manipulate price and take with one hand while givveing with the other.

AND some people think they are great because they throw a few crumbs in the way of fue l discount vouchers.

We are only a few steps away from "owing our souls to the company store."

cheers

This is similar to the debate about solar panels on the roof.
I suggest we (all those that have them) go out and switch them off at midday and watch what happens.
Like wise Woolies and Coles close down the shops on wednesday arvo and open up 10 am saturday ?

Fuel discounts and "Specials" at the big two supermarkets are an illusion. They bank on us simple consumers being thrilled with a few cents "saved" on one item and assume we won't spend the effort to really check on their prices. I have started to follow prices in my local Coles a bit. It is common for the widely promoted "giant economy" or 2kg pack to actually cost more than two 1kg packs but you see people happily grabbing the 2kg packs and enjoying their "bargain". Then there are the items that quietly go up for a couple of weeks so the can come DOWN DOWN next week to where they were! As well as price manipulation these places promote all sorts of junk that we don't really need to buy - Wet Floor Wipes! Really! It is so easy to spend money on stuff you can easily do without!
I find that when I shop at my medium sized localIGA and do without a fuel docket I can easily come out in front. Also I never buy fruit and veg or meat in any supermarket unless I am in a town where the big two have killed off everyone else - and then they charge like wounded bulls!
As you gather supermarkets are becoming one of my hobby horses! Lynne

I am in a town where the big two have killed off everyone else


yes i am in the same situation here in Broken Hill in my ten years here i have seen 4 or 5 servos gone and a lot of small shops

Linsays fuel next to the water board the other day were asking $161 much dearer than coles or woolie

but i do vaguely r ember the days when some one filled the car up for you and when they went to self serve I was told to expect substantial savingswell i am still waiting for that

If the two main players are so detrimental to competition, and I think they are, why will no government take them on? Maybe it is partly because all of our super funds have shares in the two. If decisions are made that impact on their profits too much, your super earnings decline. That means less in retirement. Less travel around this great country! Would we all be happy with that? Or would the resulting competition bring the cost of living down thereby making the true value of our super better? What if the resulting competition did not bring about lower costs to the consumer? Glad I don’t have to make these decisions. I just shop where I can get the best value and ease of shopping. Mind you I don’t get my fuel via shopper dockets, just a personal choice. Kevin

About 4 years ago, on Marion Rd Richmond, Woolworths built a new servo bang next to an independent servo. For the first year they traded, they discounted lower than any other fuel station in Adelaide until that independent was forced to close. Once the independent closed, they cranked their fuel price back up. That's not competition, its picking off the opposition one by one.

Since then, we no longer buy food or fuel from Woolworths or Coles.

Foodland and BP get our business - BP has the higher cetane diesel as well.

Everyone wants to get the best possible value for the family dollar. You can't blame the customer for that.

But I think there is a case for the Coles and Woolwoths grocery duopoly to be broken up. Start by separating the wholesale and retail operations into two separate public companies. With Metcash, that would give us three major national independent wholesalers rather than one.

That way independent retailers could shop around for the best wholesale pricing and the retail majors would lose their ability to strong arm suppliers. Mind you, they'd probably start asking for rebates and extra fees even more than they do now. But at least it might be a step towards a level playing field and more transparent pricing - provided that there were rules in place to prevent supermarket rorts. This has happened in other industries in the USA with their anti-trust legislation. But I doubt whether we have the necessary political guts to do it here.

When supermarkets started selling fuel in the USA, every supermarket fuel outlet resulted in the closure of nine independent service stations. For the last 20 years or more, it has been the independent servos in Australia that have kept retail fuel prices competitive. Servo numbers in Australia have dropped from about 20,000 (selling multiple brands) forty years ago to about 6,000, now which may not have been a bad thing.

Half a dozen big companies (Esso, Golden Fleece, Total and so on) have left the market and now some others are looking a pulling up stumps as well. By world standards all of the Australian refineries are small scale almost backyard operations, which cannot hope to compete with imported fuel in the longer term. Plenty have been closed down.

Now Trafigura, a major multinational fuel shipper, is buying up a lot of chains of independent service station sin Australia. What that will do for retail pricing is anyone's guess. At the moment, it seems that Coles and Woolworths are actually keeping fuel prices UP which, in spite of shopper dockets, is allowing he independents to compete.

If Coles and Woolworths decided to put on a protracted price war in the retail fuel market, there is little doubt that they could force maybe 3,000 of Australia's 6,000-odd servos out of business. That's how much power they have. It scares me.

Keith

There are two ways that the supermarkets can put it to the consumer ......
Spend $30.00 in our other business & save 8 cents a litre on your fuel,
OR,
If you don't buy your groceries from us, we will make you pay 8 cents too much for your fuel!