Pedantic Replies

"The other problem is that Google makes everybody an "expert"!"

Ain't that the truth.

"Google makes everybody an "expert"!

Some years back I heard it said that, "Information does not equal knowledge and knowledge does not equal wisdom".

In this age of the Internet and Google I am sure those words have never been more true.

Yes Bazooka, you are quite right, particularly about 230v electrical matters.

My difficulty arises when a matter of personal safety becomes evident and readers are offered plausible but unsafe advice. It matters not about one's qualification or expertise, there are always those who are 'cocky' and truly believe that they know all about the subject who will at worst post unsafe statements or at best post responses which simply muddy the waters and confuse. Repeated efforts to clarify can then be viewed as "pedantic". I respond to try and resolve but eventually, as in a recent thread, simply opt-out to terminate the confusion, however I find it difficult to 'bite-my-tongue' when matters of safety are involved.

A few years back we had Collyn Rivers as a regular expert Member until, for much the reasons we discuss here, Collyn reached the limit of his tolerance and ceased to contribute. An extract from his final post is as follows:

(Quote begins) "Time and time again however the very basis of the postings are disputed - leaving one in the necessary absurdity of trying to convince someone that: 'No - the effects of Ohm's law are not 'personal opinions'. Etc. Within a few postings, the thread tends to leave the questioner more confused than previously.
It has also not infrequently caused others to state my advice is flawed or wrong and this is a serious issue for a professional engineer and professional writer/publisher offering advice in the same field. People are thus left wondering about my competence in the very area in which I publish - but with no way of judging it.
I have therefore and reluctantly decided to cease, as from now, to respond to all questions on this site in all areas in which I work, write and/or publish. I will however continue to post on other areas where I feel I may be able to assist.
I truly thank everyone who, over the past few years, has been kind enough to acknowledge assistance provided.
Collyn Rivers" (End of quote)

As a professional engineer myself, I can understand exactly where Collyn was coming from.

The entire thread can be read here and even after his "resignation" there were follow-ups of derision which substantiated Collyn's point!

The misfortune of it is that ExplorOz lost an expert and valuable contributor. And I would expect that such others have either never offered or have ceased to offer.

Accordingly, the uninformed reader has little way to judge the competence of a response on this site. Some similar forums do have subject moderators appointed to oversee such matters, but not here.

As you say Bazooka.... "I do know a few EOers who I'd trust (and others I wouldn't)" but a new poster to the site does not even have that benefit! It is a unfortunate and frustrating matter.

Agree with Bazooka and Alan.
Maybe we, and I include myself in the category, would like, and have gotten use to, having our information delivered to us like our milk. Homogenised, pasteurised and packaged ready for consumption with all the additives clearly listed.
Maybe we should pay a little more heed to sayings like "give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach him how to fish and he will feed himself for the rest of his life."
It's been many a long year since I sat in a class room but I do remember one piece of insight that managed to find it's way through the fog.
Learn how to learn.
My point being that if we were to consider a particular area of expertise that may not be much more than smoke and mirrors (maybe a bad choice wording....lol.) to many, dare I mention the dreaded "E" word. Yep, electricity...there I said it. Now you would think that any two sparkies, or at least those that have more than a nodding acquaintance with the subject would largely agree on how to avoid getting a bit too up close and personal with the stuff.
As any who have followed the bleep fights that have unfolded in numerous threads would know as per the words of that old song "it ain't necessarily so". This being the case how would the uninitiated know who speaks the truth and who may just be "bending" the facts little. My opinion, with bit of independant research, while that may not entitle you to add the letters that indicate you hold a degree in electrical engineering or even a ticket to do basic wiring could just give you enough insight into who actually speaks with a forked tongue. (;=))

Cheers
Pop

Pop,
I will reply to you and I see your point of view.

Now here is an example. Someone asked will both rcd's trip on the same fault. The simple answer is. Yes if they are both similar rcd's. In other words both are 30ma and have a similar tripping time.

Now we get into the pedantic area of nit picking. Some will say this is not correct because of blah, blah, blah and so the beat goes on. Now some learned person will say that is wrong. If they want to bet a beer on it I am up for it.

The simple question gets altered into 10ma rcd's which no one uses except hospitals. Having said that someone will say we do and the beat goes on. So it starts again. I come back and say bet you don't use a 10ma rcd in general industry, because you will forever be resetting the rcd because of nuisance trips, and the beat goes on, meanwhile turning the OP's head into a throbbing pumpkin.

Problem is the OP cops a heap of info and argument instead of the simple answer.

Yes! often they will both trip if they are 30ma and have similar tripping times.

Point is it is a simple answer and the OP can relate to it. Once the pedantics come in, thunder clouds appear and lightning strikes us all.

Someone said I speak with forked tongue, until they realise I am a lizard. Slow and lazy.

Like your style mate (:=))

Yeah I think what you have laid down is a pretty good example of what I was trying to get at, probably not that clearly.
Using the example you have used surely a quick search of RCD manufacturer's web sites would give the tolerances these devices work to. Now while that may not mean giving the whole story to someone with limited exposure to things electrical I would have thought that if a number of sufficient magnitude was the tolerance then it may give an idea as to how 2 same rated units would operate at slightly different points.
Then again maybe I am looking at this particular example in too simplistic terms. After all I am only an old retired mechanic and leave that 240v or more stuff to those qualified to handle it. Might just give me a few more years on this Earth....LOL

Cheers
Pop

Pop,
I don't know your walking frame manufacturer, but mine says I can walk all over yours anytime. LOL.

Do it easy young fella.

Agree with every one!This is one of the reasons I stopped commenting on various subjects a couple of years ago.
TTFN
Tony S

Nick, There would probably be as many 'thumbs' in each box as the other. LOL

To the second line of this, yes this really bugs me,your reply gets ignored and the copier somehow becomes a genius!

I find it happens more on those forums here they're more close knit and tend to lock others out.

And sometimes, another point is a particular post repeated later in the thread almost word for word as if it is the new posters original thought. Yes, I had a chuckle....my mind is small. :-)

G'day Mike, Glad you had that thought. Yes, I had a chuckle....my mind is small too. :-)

You have to also take into account that apart from `nit pickers' there is the different use of language. Some of us just talk in a different manner and it can be often read, not how it is meant.
Unfortunately crossing the `T's' and dotting the `I' sometimes is necessary, as it could mean the difference betweens something working, or something not. I guess it is all about the nature of the delivery?
I myself have been targeted because of my use of language. But I speak how we speak in London, and sometimes things have different meanings. It doesn't help!!!
By the way Steve.............how's Man U???? LOL. You've gone very quiet on that line... :)

who's "manu"? a Spanish waiter? or d'you mean the Champs? Paying for ailing American shopping centres right now.

Keep polishing your "top in January trophy" ;))

Hi Steve

We have crossed swords once or twice but with this one I must agree. Now THAT was hard to say. (see the smile on my face mate) I believe that the written word is almost an entirely different language with punctuation, grammar and structure all being part of the meaning. Leave one part out and the meaning can easily be off on a tangent. And even if proof read by the OP, this tangent can be missed. And others start answering along the wrong path. WWIII erupts.

What about a question that I answered once. The OP asked if he could drive to Cape York. Because he used the word "could", there are two interprertaions of that question. Is it legally allowed or is it plausable for him personally. Typical "can" and "may" issue. I don't remember which side I started with but most of the knockers didn't read all of my post and I copped a hammering.

You mentioned the "delivery". Very true mate. This is because the written word and the spoken word have to be different. When one says "Bugger off" there may, or may not be, a smile, or scowl, on the speakers face. But when written you can't see the smile so you could be offended. ie the deliver has to change. Face to face it is a different kettle where one can change tact half way through a sentence when the audience are seriously shaking their heads, looks bored or not interested etc.

And, a good point about customs, as you mentioned. Agggghhhh Which came first - the pot or the middy???

Cheers

Phil

looks a friendly enough wave at O'Hagen's and that'll do me mate ;)

A bit more friendlier than cartoons and abbreviations. Still happily a bit more "old school" here.

Phil

Phil,
Have you solved your potato problem?

Yes. Cut up and frozen. Handy having that freezer in the car.

Phil

Sand Man,

I guess I haven't been bothered.

Skull

Agreed completely

Ah, just try posting a query about an extension lead with a 10amp plug on one end and 15amp plug on the other. Then you'll get a REAL fight!

"Ah, just try posting a query about an extension lead with a 10amp plug on one end and 15amp plug on the other. Then you'll get a REAL fight!"

Amen to that .... * ducks head *

One thing I didn't cover is there are a lot of people out there that are house bound for various reasons and spend many hours pursing these sites to keep occupied. A lot of these people enjoy answering questions and helping out, ie doing research for others that they could do them self as it keeps then occupied.

Therefore as already covered, you don't have to answer, yes it may fill up the forum with duplicate info but if it does worry admin it shouldn't worry us. If the administrators wish they can always move it to other areas.

Nutta,
had a person tell me I was doing it all wrong, as he had just done a 3 day course and passed his slewing crane ticket. 1 week later he put a crane on it's nose.

Google and courses make many supermen. I know cause I just got diploma from doggy brothers.

Really though, I was more posting about pedantic replies and leading the OP's original post way off track.

No sweat, i was just kinda referring to penchys reply post 16, cheers.

...and no doubt it's where you learnt/were reminded of how to spell tyres correctly :)

Cheers
Greg

oh the panic .. was I tired when I posted tyres? I had to check :)

Sounds a good suggestion to me. I believe the OP should be able to control what responses he doesn't want, especially the ones that go on and on and on or ones that get off track from what he asked for.

Have a great time at Mapoon. Last time I was there was in the 70's with a mate of mine Gibson Hudson. Gibbo could sure fish with a spear.

The idea that the original poster controlls the discussion is totally unworkable.

Firstly it is a PUBLIC FORUM and no poster owns any thread.

Secondly giving the original poster moderation rights would open up the forum to anybody with a single opinion to push.

I have seen a couple of threads opened by moderators on other sites where the original poster has edited the thread to suit their own opinion.

Not very clever and not what internet forums are about.

If you don't like where the thread has gone, don't read and don't post.

For PUBLIC FORUMS to remain interesting and usefull, it requires people who can articulate a well constructed response or argument.

cheers

What a bizarre idea, editing out all the responses you dont like. Defeats the purpose of the whole exercise.

Cheers
Greg

The OP should be able to ask that others don't use his/her thread to hold a mother's meeting.

Quick, where is that delete button, I need it now ......
Just kidding hahaha
It is exactly how facebook works and works well but I do agree a "bit" other than the ability to get rid of some of the pathetic "trolls" that venture into areas that don't reflect the content of the original post and the poster is after evenly weighted replies so really if the poster deletes it who can complain, they created the post, not the "readers", it is up to the readers to make what they want of each post, if it gets constantly "trimmed" then they will lose interest from the readers anyway.
And "moderation" rights for a poster is a blunt way to put it but they did put it up as there own opinion so what if they want there own opinion, that is exactly why they posted, is it not, I also have seen "moderators" that have removed some things they personally don't agree with but the poster does, they are only human and not different to the faults of the poster ....
:-)

Hi

As the Bantam suggested allowing the OP to edit out responses they don't want to hear would just not work and cause more problems than it would solve. A public forum is way different to facebook (your own personal "forum").

I am not sure what example you are referring to but Moderators moderate using the existing forum rules - some of the rules are a bit subjective in borderline cases but action is generally not taken just based on the personal opinion of one moderator. If a thread is moderated there has to be a valid reason.

Also keep in mind anyone can request their own posts to be edited or removed...and therefore moderators are also allowed to edit or remove their own posts as well.

So as it currently stands - if you see a thread or a post that you think breaches forum rules - report it using the alert mod button. Unfortunately "pedantic" replies are not in breach of forum rules at this point in time. As mentioned you can request to have your own posts edited or removed if you wish, again just use moderator alert button.

Cheers
Greg

If the Moderators moderated to forum rules, this thread & many others would & should be deleted under the "chit chat" rule!

Hi

No, you are incorrect in this instance. The chit chat rule could not be applied to his thread - that rule is reserved for "covert conversations in the Forum that only mean something to a few in the know" or "prolonged to and fro reply exchanges" in forum threads. e.g. half way through a thread on tyres someone starts talking to their mate about the weather, their family, catching up etc.

If you see a breach of forum rules use the alert moderator button. It may or may not get moderated - an explanation for not moderating maybe be given in some cases.

Cheers
Greg

Like the question & answer about potatoes above?

Greg,
For me it is not removing replies I don't want to hear or don't agree with. It is about the ones that get off track and the OP has to put up with the inane responses to them. The moderators can lock the thread but the OP then doesn't get the answers he is looking for.

One of the worst offenders has even replied to this thread. There is nothing wrong with that, as it is an open post and not pinned to a specific answer or close enough reply. (No PJR it is not you and I don't think we have crossed paths.

What it gets down to is some are either googling us to death or showing how big the things are in their pants.

I agree with you this post is not off topic or related to any forum rule.

From my point of view it is about an OP getting a good reply from a someone, who can help them with their DIRECT REQUEST. Sorry about the shouting, it is not aimed at you.

Hello Slow one

Yes understand the intent of the idea (i.e. OP being able to control content of their thread) but still don't think it would work, mainly because not everyone would use the function for the same purpose or in a consistent fashion.

Cheers
Greg

Hello Shaker

The posts you mention represent a potential "Chit Chat" but as it is limited to two replays (at this stage) it's not worth worrying about.

Cheers
Greg