I'd rather not vent but......

Hello All,
I'm installing a dual battery set up in my Pajero io this weekend.
For those of you who are familiar with this vehicle, you'll know that there is no space under the bonnet and about as much space in the load area where I plan to place the second battery.
I've been trying to research different battery types with lots of mixed messages and sales speak from different suppliers and I apologize if this has been covered in the past.

My question is this....... does anyone have/or know of a battery type suitable to use as a second battery (about 100ah) that does not require a battery box or venting?
The battery will be housed securely in a non sealed section of my storage unit.

I'm trying to avoid using a battery box if I can, purely to save space.....yes it is THAT limited, however I don't want smells or things going boom either.

Any feedback will be very much appreciated.
Cheers....Fab-io
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Reply By: Member - Rosco from way back - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 19:05

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 19:05
G'day Fab-io

You could consider an Optima Yellow Top. Expensive but a bloody good battery. It's my understanding that they are effectively sealed (you can lay them on their side), hence no problem with venting.

By the way, how often do you let the person out of your centre top storage box? He looks a tad cramped.
AnswerID: 524958

Follow Up By: Member Andys Adventures - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 23:31

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 23:31
Agree with Rosco, I have had 2 Optima yellow top and they are encased in a small enclosed box. Had it for 3 years now and still going strong.
Andy
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:29

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:29
Thanks Rosco and Andy .... will look into that one.
Rosco... the guy in the storage box doesn't get out as often as he'd like. Hehe.

Fab
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Reply By: Idler Chris - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 19:38

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 19:38
I have an Outback draw system. The 50 litre Waeco occupies only two thirds of the firdge slide. I had a bracket made which bridges the back third of the slide and put a 145aHr Delco gel battery on it. After seven years it is still going strong and when tested 3 months ago it is down to a 135 aHr battery. Having no room under the bonnet is really a blessing because batteries do not like heat. I am away 3 to 4 months every year and other smaller side trips so it gets a good workout. Who knows how long it will last.
What other people think of me is none of my business.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:31

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:31
Glad to hear that Chris. I get a massive discount on AC Delco batteries through my work.
I'll look into that type too.

Fab.
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Reply By: Member - kev.h - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 19:57

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 19:57
Talk to your battery supplier any sealed battery will be safe and legal
Any battery that needs topping up with water is not sealed and is dangerous inside your passenger area as it will release acidic fumes that is why they need venting to the outside they also have a corrosion issue in most states it is illegal unless its a sealed battery
Cheers Kev
AnswerID: 524962

Reply By: Member - John and Val - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 20:20

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 20:20
Fabio,

Provided you use a gel or agm battery (the acid in these is captive), you should not need any battery box. Venting is not required by such batteries either, provided you don't damage the battery by using excessive charge current. The manufacturer's recommended maximum should not be exceeded.

I'm sure you aren't planning to, but for the benefit of anyone watching but not aware, you should NEVER mount a wet acid battery inside the vehicle (in a box or otherwise) - the acid is dangerous and if you accidentally turned the vehicle, and the battery, upside down you'd already have enough problems without being bathed in concentrated acid! Also, explosive hydrogen gas may be given off by a wet cell battery during charging.

Just a thought - if space is a problem maybe you could fit a couple of smaller batteries more easily. By connecting them in parallel (ie the positive terminals connected together and the negative terminals connected together) you could create the required storage with two half size, half capacity batteries. This would cost a bit more but give you flexibility.

Cheers

John
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 20:46

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 20:46
How did we ever survive driving LR's for all those years with the wet cell battery under the seat?!
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Follow Up By: yarda - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 22:53

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 22:53
Probably because old landys were neither air nor water tight! Any gas or leaks wouldn't have stayed inside for long.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 23:51

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 23:51
VW Beetles had the wet cell battery under the back seat.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:36

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:36
Cheers John,
Being a motorbike rider too... I did ponder the use of some motorbike sized batteries. Mmmm....might be worth looking into that avenue a bit further too.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - John and Val - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:57

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 11:57
Guys,

I'm heartily fed up with the way every electrical thread seems to become a battle ground. This is usually the work of a very few voluble lurkers who might know their stuff but might also benefit from a personality upgrade. Unless you have a constructive contribution to make, please don't slip in a sentence or two just to undermine those who do contribute constructively. There are usually 1000 or more logged onto this site, many not able to weigh the merits of different contributions - easily confused and discouraged by the ego battles. There's a lot of good stuff here, but its effectiveness is too often undermined by point scoring.

It is true that the wet batteries in some vehicles such as the old open top landrovers could be accessed from inside the vehicle. So what?? This doesn't change the fact that it is very very bad practice to store concentrated sulphuric acid in with your passengers! Does any current manufacturer put a wet cell battery inside the vehicle....?

As Bantam says below, no battery is totally sealed, and all can fail catastrophically. Ventilation IS essential for wet cell batteries, and in my view desirable though not essential for agm and gel. Manufacturers might say differently, but their concerns extend beyond the technology to legal and compensation issues. As I said above, "Venting is not required by such batteries either, provided you don't damage the battery by using excessive charge current." There is a very very low probability that an unvented agm or gel battery will give trouble if charged and discharged in a sensible manner - this is an important reason for every auxilliary battery to be fitted with a fuse close to the battery.

Rant over - I planning on not responding to any further sniping! Let's keep this thread constructive and on topic!!

Cheers

John







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Follow Up By: Member - Boo Boo (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:49

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:49
John

Well said, thank you.

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:11

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:11
Take it easy, guys.

I read Lyn W3's follow up as a tongue-in-cheek comment - a little bit of humour - and the following 3 just picked up on that.

I that's all it was and that I'm not proved wrong.

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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:12

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:12
Should be

"I hope that's all it was ....."
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Follow Up By: Krooznalong - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:13

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:13
Yeah - well said John - but expecting that "Let's keep this thread constructive and on topic!!" will occur is like hoping you'll win the lotto next week - it most likely ain't gonna happen. Some people just love to $h!t stir or nit pick or go off on some unrelated tangent etc.

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Follow Up By: yarda - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:41

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:41
John,
Does any current manufacturer put a wet cell battery inside the vehicle....?

Certainly a couple of years ago BMW sedans had the batt under the back seat.

VE (and I assume the VF) commodore utes have the batt behind the passengers seat.

But I agree 100% that they should be vented.

My Delcor M27 marine batts are "fully sealed" but even they have lovely vent nipples to bang some clear tubing onto if needed.
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Follow Up By: Shaker - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:49

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:49
I don't think anybody was saying that manufacturers putting batteries inside vehicles was good practice, but it is fair enough to make the comment as it is/was obviously not against the law & the OP may not want to spend $400.00 on a battery.
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Follow Up By: Brian 01 - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 16:44

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 16:44
A little clarification here.
The Delcor M27 is not a "fully sealed" battery at all.
It is a maintenance free battery.
In other words, a flooded battery that you can't add water to.
Those nipples are designed to have a vent tube connected to them for when the battery is installed in an enclosed space, and MUST be used when this is the case.
Although less quantity than lead antimony chemistry, these Calcium batteries will still release gasses through those vents when under charge or heavy load.
Tip the battery on a big enough angle and acid will come out of those vents.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 17:23

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 17:23
yarda .... VE and VF Commodore ute do indeed have the battery fitted behind the front seat.
In addition to this, the Police Pack utes have another battery fitted behind the other front seat. Both of which are sealed acid batteries. They both run a small diametre vent tube out of them.
Now that's a big call for government employees to be driving around with that much "stuff" behind their butts. Thinking of the OH&S regs.
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Follow Up By: yarda - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 22:52

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 22:52
Maybe I should say " liquid sealed" as I've been using them for over 10 years off road and I've never seen any evidence of acid or fume venting. According to Delkor they are only 99% sealed!

Fab - that's interesting, wonder why the police pack utes get a second batt ? I used to service police cars in a previous life and they never had an extra batt.
You are right about oh&s concerns, I couldn't believe the amount of crappola mounted within head striking distance, and loose within the car. They were interesting road tests though :-)
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 22:59

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 22:59
yarda...no idea. I'm assuming it's to run the double bubbles with the engine off or to provide power to their KDT's and other devices when the engine is off.
Incidentally, I am the Supervisor for the area at which the second battery is retro fitted at Holden's Elizabeth plant.
FYI .... they use Redarc SBI12's as isolators.
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Follow Up By: yarda - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 23:37

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 23:37
Nice choice with the Redarc, good SA gear there.

Have you decided what retraining you want before the wrap up over there?
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Follow Up By: Member - LeighW - Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 00:20

Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 00:20
Well said John,

I had a Toyota Spacia about 10 years ago that had a wet cell that was mounted in a battery box under the floor accessed by a cover under the floor carpet.

However, the battery box was vented, had drain holes and the cover sealed when you closed it and it locked down.

My father also had a beetle with the battery under the rear seat, the car didn't have seat belts, but then other cars wouldn't have either, actually it didn't have any safety gear, I think you can see where I'm going with this!

Not a good idea to mount a wet cell in a car, even a sealed AGM's I would be wary about, have seen quite a few brand new ones from different manufactures taken off pallets and left on a bench for asset recording start to weep after a couple of days.

I would only mount any battery in side a car if I had absolutely no other choice, my personal opinion.

Cheers
Leigh

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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 06:05

Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 06:05
Thanks Leigh.
Your last line sums it up perfectly. I have absolutely no other choice.
The battery HAS to go inside the car. It's just a case of LiFePO4 or AGM.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 06:17

Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 06:17
yarda,
I have only given it a brief thought (re: retraining).
My credentials thus far are:
Toyota trained mechanic/Service advisor
ISO accredited auditor
HC Truck licence.

Experience entails:
Senior Technical Officer (Engineering)
Export Program co-ordinator
Quality Manager
Business Development Manager (SA & NT)
Sales and Marketing
Production Supervisor/Manager

I really don't know whether to chase the corporate dollars or settle back in to a regular 8 hour day doing standard tasks.

I'm thinking maybe a Service Advisor/Workshop Manager/Service Manager in a dealership.
OR
Fleet controller with a logistics firm.

I drove trucks for 2 years as a weekend warrior up north of SA and actually loved it so I may look at upgrading my licence to a MC and getting my fork ticket.

I'm not afraid to give anything a go....as long as it entails work and not standing around idle.

Thanks for taking an interest.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: yarda - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 00:13

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 00:13
Fab,

You've got some good transferable skills there, and that's what it's all about, don't fixate on job types but break down your knowledge and experience into transferable skills and look at where they fit elsewhere.
It's worked for me, my trade came to grinding halt Over a decade ago and I've done some weird and wacky stuff since but always applied and interviewed based on transferables.

Your ideas depend on a few things, do you want to travel? If so then a service tech job with a mining equipment company may be the go.
Do you lack morals and like spinning BS to people, then working in a dealer may be suitable.

I tend to look only at the political landscape nowadays to judge where jobs are headed, certainly the trucking lobby has great influence in keeping freight on the roads, combine this with a nation slowly becoming a gross importer of all goods and a job in logistics looks long term viable.

Politics also equals vote securing job placements, the recent relocation of special forces troops to Adelaide means they built, among other things a nice new heavy vehicle workshop. I'm not sure who has the current contract, tenix, BAE, trans field etc. but they may be lookin for competent tradespeople and maintenance managers.
Then there is the Adelaide ship port, being gifted a lot of Navy surface vessel work, along with the submarine maint and possible build. ASC are a huge, big dollar group and being Govt, they have lots of ISO 9001 related jobs like Quality Systems Manager, Lead Auditer, Internal Auditer etc. that's where I'd be looking.
The subs are very long term prospects, currently they spend over 500 million a year in maint, any new fleet won't be much different and the life of type of the Collins class plus the replacement will outlive us.
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Follow Up By: ModSquad - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 00:28

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 00:28
"Chit Chat"/"OT" warning :)
No more please.

Cheers
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Reply By: The Bantam - Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 23:54

Wednesday, Jan 22, 2014 at 23:54
First and most important, it must be understood that There is no such thing as a totally sealed battery in the lead acid family that does not require ventilation...NONE.

If you want to argue this one, I can quote chapter and verse from documentation of just about every manufacturer....including Optima.

Lots of the manufacturers will make various claims of being totally sealed or operating in any position in their advertising material....Then you get into their application notes or the material safety and data sheets and you find the real truth.

There are one or two battery sellers that are nothing short of wreckless about their claims and recommendations about batteries, how sealed they are and where they can be safely housed.

ALL and I do mean ALL lead acid batteries WILL vent explosive gasses and corrosive fumes or mists under certain circumstances......top of the list of causes are over charging and high temperatures.

The originators of the GELL technology "Sonnenschein" ( now owned by Exide)warn very strongly on their web site about ventilating batteries..all batteries.

There is also the very real issue that batteries fail..and sometimes catastrophicly....releasing explosive fumes and corrosive material.

As for the arguments about certain vehicles that had batteries under the seats.....Landrover batteries may have been accessed under the seat but the battery was in fact under the vehicle not inside the pasenger compartment or enclosed.

This is typical of many vehicles.

VW beetles had the battery under the rear seat....the single most popular rust repair section for the beetle is the rear floor pan under the rear seat...um..where the battery is.
It was also not uncommon for people to jump or dump the bottoms heavily on the rear seat of beetles and the seat springs short on the battery terminals...causing as a minimum excitement at worst fire.

Oh yes there have been a number of vehicles with batteries inside the boot...but in the past many vehicles had the petrol tank in the boot seperated only by the rear seat from the passenger compartment.....very much not common practice these days.

I do realise that in many vehicles the alternatives are hard or impossible.

If you must fit a battery inside the vehicle, first ask yourself..." Am I feeling lucky"

Then be very sure that the battery you select represents the minimum risk.

Always mount batteries upright.

Make sure that it is very solidly restrained...serioulsy this is more often than not underestimated.

make sure you provide as much ventilation as you possibly can

make sure your charging system remains in good repair at all times and the voltage regulation is appropriate for the battery.

AND.

you check on the battery regularly, to ensure that it is in good condition.


I would also sugest that you replace that battery early instead of waiting for it to fail.

Serioulsy think about this.
I know this is information a great many do not want to here......but these are the facts.

cheers
AnswerID: 524972

Follow Up By: Member - Tony (ACT) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 05:50

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 05:50
Ok you have given the problem but what's the solution?

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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:51

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:51
Thanks Bantam,
That's very comprehensive. I too am weary of any lead acid battery claiming to be totally sealed. I believe the "sealed" reference refers to it's ability to withstand fluid leaks under normal operating conditions and its "maintenance free" status.
Having looked a quite a few of these types of batteries from several suppliers, none are prepared to put their hand on their heart and guarantee no gases will be vented. It's all in the marketing wording.

Is there any other way?

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - Rosco from way back - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 09:06

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 09:06
"As for the arguments about certain vehicles that had batteries under the seats.....Landrover batteries may have been accessed under the seat but the battery was in fact under the vehicle not inside the pasenger compartment or enclosed."

Not quite the case old mate. To access the battery you lift the seat cushion out of the way and remove a cover plate. The battery is totally inaccessible from outside the vehicle. Still the same system today.
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Follow Up By: Lyn W3 - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 09:59

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 09:59
Yep......and the cover was missing more times than it was there.
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Follow Up By: The Bantam - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 23:25

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 23:25
Firstly on the landrover issue.
I did not state that the battery was accessable from under the vehicle.

As installed the battery was not IN the pasenger compratment and will in fact be vented and drained under the vehicle.

Apart from the fact that car manufacturers can not be held up as examples of safety and engineering excelence.....particularly in the electrical department.....lots of vehicles are prone to burning and every single vehicle manufacturer..every damn one of them..has had some sort of recall on a life threatening issue.....several of them have a string of class action law suits on safety issues.

The fact that any car manufacturer mounts a battery inside the car and there are several....is no indication that it is a clever thing to do.



On the matter of "sealed".
What ALL "sealed lead acid batteries" have in common is "VENT / VALVES", that are speciofically designed to allow excess gass pressure to escape in over pressure situations....there are no exceptions, they all have them....every single one.
There presence shows without a doubt that every sealed lead acid battery WILL vent explosive gasses and corrosive material under certain circumstances.

Tey should more correctly be called "non-spillable batteries"...if you read the optima MSDS, you will see that phrase used.

As for TONY (act).
I have not given the problem, it exist regardless of my saying anything, the general ignorance of the matter or anybodies opinion.

AND I have given the solution.
read my post.


There is NO WAY of removing this risk appart from mounting outside the cabin or sealing the battery from the pasenger compartment and providing adequate ventilation to outside air.



cheers
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Reply By: gbc - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:46

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 06:46
There's a few enterprising individuals over on the ford ranger forums who have been taking out the rear under seat storage inserts and mounting little optimas on a slant in there - nil bad effects thus far. You could always run a breather out through the wheel arch if you were concerned?
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Follow Up By: auzinomad - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:22

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:22
I'd like to do that on my Ranger , can you supply a link ?


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Follow Up By: gbc - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:51

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 12:51
They are only the little optima 45 odd ah. Seems like a lot if work. I just put a big optima in the tray. New ranger.net has the thread I think. I'll have a squizz tonight when I'm not browsing with a phone.
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Follow Up By: gbc - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:40

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:40
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/forum/viewtopic.php?f=210&t=127329

Found it. About the 5th post down even has a piccy.
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Reply By: WBS - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 08:53

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 08:53
No one has mentioned LiFePO4 batteries? I've been very impressed with what I've read about them during my research. I've read they are pretty expensive, light weight, can be discharged further than lead acid batteries without damage, are faster to recharge and they are fully sealed. It sounds great in theory. Does anyone have real life experience with them?

WBS
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Follow Up By: Dust-Devil - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:01

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 10:01
I have and still do.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:05

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:05
Dust-Devil...... could you be a bit more specific please? Are you saying you use a LiFePO4 battery and still do?

How long have you owned it for?
What sort of loads does it have?
How often is it discharged and recharged (Cycles)?

Cheers.... Fab :)
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:18

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 14:18
Fab 72

A considerable number of members of our Karavan owner's club have converted from heavy AGM battery packs to much lighter and better performing LiFePO4 technology. All are extremely satisfied and would never go back. When my AGMs die I will be doing the same.

I am told anecdotally that 50% of Bushtrackers leaving the factory are also LiFePO4 equipped.

I think the technology is the way of the future for recreational 12V, though it will have a hard time displacing the entrenched lead-acid industry.

Cheers

FrankP

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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 17:33

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 17:33
G'Day Frank. I'll do a ring around and get some prices.
At this stage, my budget (which perhaps I should have disclosed earlier) is around $300 to $350.
I rang my local Battery World store who emphatically insisted that an AGM battery they sell for $330 does not require venting. I asked this several times in different ways to make sure he was on the same page as me.
I then rang AC Delco who said the exact same thing. Their battery was $399 but discounted it down to $330 to price match.

I'm still undecided. It really is a toss up between the AGM or possibly a LiFePO4 (depending on cost).

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 17:48

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 17:48
LiFePO4 100ah battery for $1365.24!!!!! Crickey. Stick that where the sun doesn't shine.
I have no doubt that it's good and by jingoes it's light weight BUT I reckon my wallet would be light weight too if I bought one of these.

http://www.batteriesdirect.com.au/shop/product/24477/fusion-12v-100ah-lithium-deep-cycle-lifepo4.html
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:10

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:10
Gulp.

There's a wide variation in pricing between suppliers - some provide expensive industrial/military quality, others more oriented toward a recreational budget. Even the cheap ones properly looked after may outlast lead-acid by maybe a factor of 5 or more in terms of cycles. More expensive, sure, but maybe more economical in the long run.

Our members use EV Power in Perth. Try them here.

I wrote a post about the batteries in Thread 105774, Followup 805955.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:14

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:14
the place to buy LifePO batteries is here
As has been said there are lots of people using them in vans and motorhomes as well as 4wd's.
You do need to limit charging voltages from a vehicle and never totally flatten them, they do cost a bit more but when you compare actual usable battery capacity against LA's then they are a viable proposition.
Weigh much less, charge quicker and don't care whether they are fully recharged or not.
You typically buy four 3.2 v cells of your chosen capacity to make up a 12.8 volt battery.
Say you decide on a 100 ah battery which would cost around $600 which has usable capacity if you limit usage to 80% SOC equals 50% of a 160ah agm battery.
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - kev.h - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:50

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:50
Google "explosion batteries lithium ion" and see if you think they are as safe as people make out I have witnessed a laptop explosion not pretty
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Follow Up By: Ozhumvee - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:59

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 18:59
Kev
different batteries altogether, the LiFe batteries don't go boom. The Lipo's in RC cars do if not charged correctly.
Peter
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Follow Up By: Member - Frank P (NSW) - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 20:07

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 20:07
kev.h

The technology is NOT lithium ion. Note the absence of an "r" in ion. Nor is it lithium polymer, also commonly referred to as a lithium battery.

It is Lithium Iron Phosphate. Note the "r" in iron. Completely different animal.

Cheers
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Follow Up By: Member - kev.h - Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 22:13

Thursday, Jan 23, 2014 at 22:13
Hi Peter & Frank
OK sorry wrong animal I assumed you were referring to Lithium Ion after seeing a laptop go bang I don't want to be near another one when it goes off. Thanks for point out the errors of my ways I don't want to mislead anyone
Cheers Kev
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Reply By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 08:14

Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 08:14
Check ARB or other accessory suppliers - I have seen a couple of different styles of fitting 2nd battery under the Pajero bonnet - Tight, yes, but doable.

G'luck - Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 13:59

Friday, Jan 24, 2014 at 13:59
Thanks Phil,
But I doubt it. I'll be pushing it to even fit the isolator under there.
It's an io....not an "N" series.

Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - Phil 'n Jill (WA) - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 08:19

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 08:19
Hey Fab - am travelling at present, but just found 3 pics I took of same model fitted by ARB. Pics are over 2.5 mb - too big for EO upload from past experience.

They installed extra tray by mounting two rails from rear engine bay to front. They pushed one component aside to install. Tight but effective. Gotta be better than cab installation. Worth checking ARB.

Can probably send pics by email if needed - when next online.

Cheers - Phil
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 08:38

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 08:38
Trust me Phil..... if I could I would.
This photo shows the lack of space under an io bonnet.
I wasn't joking when I said even the isolator would be a squeeze.

I've yet to come across any four wheel drive retailer who is even remotley interested in helping me with my non-mainstream build with the exception of Fourplay 4X4 in Adelaide (no connection - just a paying customer). I've been to ARB and they stock or source ZERO for a Pajero io.

Have a look at the pic Phil.
Thanks all the same though.

http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/carsales/car/private/cp4851489836384438463.jpg?height=700&aspect=FitWithinNoPad&width=1050
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Reply By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 07:55

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 07:55
Well thank you to everyone for your feedback, ideas and other comments.
I've done a fair bit of asking around, reading and research and it was time to commit and stop procrastinating ...... plus, I believe this thread, like all other good ones needs to offer some sort of conclusion (it poops me when the OP's don't bother to offer feedback).

I've decided to go with the Optima Yellow top D31A. Although a bit larger in size than I would have liked (330 length - was aiming for 280-300mm max), the price, claimed features, warranty and popularity lead me to believe this was a sensible choice. I found one from a local supplier on ebay here in Adelaide for $335 which is $35 more than I wanted to spend (so no takeaway coffee for a week), but a lot cheaper than what I was quoted for the same battery from other places.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321240589610?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_2664wt_1124

I spoke to some people in the know regarding this battery and the expulsion of gases and the common consensus was that the likelihood of gases been expelled under normal driving/charging conditions with a 100 amp alternator is pretty much zero, even at higher cabin temperatures eg: locked up car on a hot day sitting idle. The same could not be said if using a battery charger, especially a high amp unit.

So again....a huge thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread. I've learnt a bit and solved my crisis.
Happy Exploring all.
Fab.





AnswerID: 525075

Follow Up By: Slow one - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 09:01

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 09:01
Fab,
try batteries direct $286 + $20 postage.

Batteries direct link

Just read the info on them as they have both cranking and deep cycle capability. Having that function they don't have a large a deep cycle amp hour rating.

All the best.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 09:57

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 09:57
Thanks for the link Slow one.

Yeah I was after a 100ah and the D31A comes close at 90ah. My Waeco fridge/freezer CDF-25 only draws 0.8ah, I charge my camera batteries while I drive and run the engine when using the compressor so other than a 36W camp light I use while setting up and cooking, I'm not a big power consumer. The 90ah should be plenty.

I'm usually only camped for a max of two days at a time before I move to my next destination.

If I get a bigger fridge, I'd have to get a bigger car too.
Cheers...Fab.
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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:01

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 10:01
EDIT:
The D31A is NOT a 90ah. It's a 75ah.
The one in the link is a D34 which is physically smaller and lighter but is only rated at 55ah.
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Reply By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 11:12

Saturday, Jan 25, 2014 at 11:12
At the risk of negating everything already posted on this thread, I have a dual battery system installed under the bonnet of my Pajero. It all fits fine.
Paul B Kalgoorlie

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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 at 08:08

Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 at 08:08
Paul..... please read the OP. It's not an "N" series Pajero. It's an "io" aka QA. 4 cylinder 1.8 petrol, SWB, about Rav 4 size.

If you can suggest where I'm going to fit a 330 x 170 mm battery amongst this lot .... http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/carsales/car/private/cp4851489836384438463.jpg?height=700&aspect=FitWithinNoPad&width=1050

......I'll buy you a pallet of beer.

Fab.
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Reply By: Member - Paul B (WA) - Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 at 09:56

Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 at 09:56
Sorry, my bad. Had no idea there was such a difference within Pajeros. All the best with your deliberations. But since you've shown me yours, I'll show you mine!



Paul B Kalgoorlie

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Follow Up By: Member - Fab72 (Paradise SA) - Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:48

Sunday, Jan 26, 2014 at 11:48
No worries Paul. I wish I had as much space as you have.
Incidentally, my io is not the smallest of the Pajero range.
In Indonesia there are 2 even smaller versions.

The Pajero Junior with a 1100cc engine and a Pajero Mini with a 650cc engine. None of which were available in Australia. At least the io was, albeit in small numbers. The Suzuki's were too much competition for them, although I'd take my io over a Sierra any day.

I'm glad I'm not trying to fit a battery into either of the two above mentioned Pajero's.

Fab.
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