Flags now mandatory for Simpson Desert.

Flags now required in Simpson for vehicles & motorbikes.

Effective March 2014 flags required

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

Back Expand Un-Read 2 Moderator

Reply By: MUZBRY- Life member(Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:18

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:18
Gday
Does that mean the EO flags are the wrong colour ??

Muzbry
Great place to be Mt Blue Rag 27/12/2012

Lifetime Member
My Profile  Send Message

AnswerID: 525757

Follow Up By: Kanga1 - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:35

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:35
Hi Muz, colour is ok, but they need to be 3.5 metres from the ground to the top EO ones are a bit short. Cheers Kanga.
Tempus Fugit

Kanga.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 807760

Follow Up By: Kanga1 - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:39

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:39
I put up the changes info in thread 105884 a couple of weeks ago, luckily before I bought a new sandflag. Cheers. Kanga.
Tempus Fugit

Kanga.

Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 807762

Follow Up By: Sir Kev & Darkie - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:22

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:22
The EO ones extend up to 3.2 metres then add the height above ground when mounted on the bullbar (one on Darkie is about 800mm above the ground) so in effect it could be 4.0 metres above the ground and therefore meets the requirements :)


Cheers Kev
Russell Coight:
He was presented with a difficult decision: push on into the stretching deserts, or return home to his wife.

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 807770

Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:01

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:01
As Kev mentioned the longer of our sand flag kits is most acceptable and well over the 3.5m height requirement once mounted. I have amended the linked shop item at the top to take you directly to the correct unit to purchase should you be looking for a really good set-up.

David
David (DM) & Michelle (MM)
---------------------------------
Always working not enough travelling!

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 807802

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:12

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:12
I use one of these mounted on the head board of the ute (4.0m).

Highly recommended, easy to mount & take off when not needed.



0
FollowupID: 807803

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:32

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:32
And here's a pic..........

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

2
FollowupID: 807805

Follow Up By: ExplorOz - David & Michelle - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 12:15

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 12:15
Here is one from the front of our car after we got bogged on a clay pan.


Do you remember this Allan.
David
David (DM) & Michelle (MM)
---------------------------------
Always working not enough travelling!

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

3
FollowupID: 807808

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 12:22

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 12:22
Sure do David.
And if it wasn't for that decent pole we would never have found your vehicle to dig you out!! LOL
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 807809

Reply By: Member - Leigh (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:42

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:42
Hi John. I would expect that such a requirement would be accompanied by a penality for non-compliance if such a law or by-law has been validly made? Did you see anything on this front? Perhaps trailers will receive some attention next?
Cheers, Leigh
PS I am not against the flags however!
AnswerID: 525760

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:50

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:50
Not as yet Leigh, the linked article is the first reference I have seen.
Perhaps SA Parks are intending to be more proactive going forward?

It can only be a positive move in my view.

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 807765

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 00:18

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 00:18
Just a thought, they may make it a condition to the SA Desert
Parks pass.
No flag means breach of permit condition and fined or prosecuted accordingly??

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

1
FollowupID: 807785

Follow Up By: ExplorOz Team - Michelle - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 17:35

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 17:35
I honestly would never believe they could administrate such a thing. It would never happen, and if it does, it won't stick.
Michelle Martin
Marketing & Customer Support
I.T. Beyond Pty Ltd / ExplorOz

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: HF Radio System: Codan NGT AR Voice with 9350 Autotune & Garmin GPS
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 807832

Reply By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:43

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:43
No one will see them because of the "hi viz" blindness plague that is spreading across this country.

We have a bright red one about 250mm square that will sit about 3M above the ground that we were given as a gift. Looks like the ARB one. If you can't see that one flopping around when I am coming up a sand hill towards you then get out of the bloody car and let someone else drive because you are blind!!

It really wont help making them mandatory. Only those who would have used them before (like moi!) will put them on anyways. Where are they going to police it.

Phil
AnswerID: 525761

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:46

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:46
A flag is supposed to gave a length and a height. It is usually only as wide as the material. Even then they got it wrong.

Just having a dig.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 807763

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:41

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:41
G'day Phil

Re: "Hi Viz" blindness

I was on a construction site the other day where there were approximately 35 to 40 workers all wearing Hi Viz - bar one newbie who had on a medium to dark brownish checked shirt with black lines. Well - didn't he stand out more than anybody else on the site !! Maybe all the OH& S mob should be looking into brown flanno checked shirts for safety ???? He was far more visible than anyone else !


Cheers

Gazz
0
FollowupID: 807774

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 21:02

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 21:02
Good one. Had to do more than click Thanks.

A bit like the old story of "The Boy Who Cried Wolf!".

But don't get me wrong. I think that the flags are a good idea but am disappointed in a lot of so called Australians who don't give a stuff about others.

Working on a new mount for mine as we speak.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 807775

Follow Up By: The Explorer - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 00:37

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 00:37
Hi

All about contrast to prevailing background..send the brown flanno checked guy into the centre of an operating mine site at night, tell him to stand still and see how long he lasts. Hi viz works in environment its designed for. Fluro stands out like the proverbial on a darker background (e.g. 35 to 40 guys/gals in brown flannelet shirts) .

Go dark (black/blue) colours myself as don't like to be seen by things I'm looking for.

Going OT..Flannelet is a great disguise in WA south west pubs like Mumballup, Nannup, Pemberton and Northcliffe but don't order Coronas as your cover will be blown :)

Cheers
Greg
I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message
Moderator

0
FollowupID: 807786

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:34

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:34
G'day Greg

There is a big difference between a mine site at night and a construction site in broad daylight under glaring sun ! I was just passing on my, and a few others observations about the guy in the brown on how much more noticeble he was to all the others !

Had a few beers with some of the overpaid miners in those establishments when I was in the west but definitely not Coronas !

Things are certainly different over in the west - most airports in Australia are packed with pend---s in suits but when I was in Perth I reckon 70% of travellers were wearing your beloved Hi Viz - was an amazing site !

All the best buddy

Gazz
0
FollowupID: 807796

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 13:09

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 13:09
Greg Check your emails. Phil
0
FollowupID: 807811

Follow Up By: get outmore - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 00:21

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 00:21
fluro on minesites is a relativly new thing
in the late 90s we only needed a fluro vest on nightshift other wise it was shorts and short sleeved sirt with a collar
and that was on one of australias biggest minesites

0
FollowupID: 807872

Reply By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:49

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:49
Thought the use of flags made a lot of sense! Don't need laws to follow a good idea and it will be interesting to see how they will be enforced.

Kind regards
AnswerID: 525762

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:58

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 19:58
PS our flag!
0
FollowupID: 807766

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:18

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:18
Yep! Looks 3.5 meters :)

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 807768

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:29

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:29
It may well be a long pole but look how it is bending back & down just in the breeze with a stationary vehicle.

I have seen a number like this with flexible poles that cause the flag to sit just above the roof at the rear of the vehicle and accordingly are not visible as they should be. Almost certainly the driver is not aware of the behaviour of his flag when the vehicle is moving.

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 807773

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 10:42

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 10:42
You forgot the red light. The one for the planes.

Mine is just about 1.5M above the roof of the car. Plenty.

Agree with you Beatit.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 807801

Follow Up By: Member - Beatit (QLD) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 23:09

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 23:09
G'day Allan,

The pole is actually quite rigid except for the very tip bit which is wippy. But at 160 kph it might bend a little more.

Kind regards
0
FollowupID: 807865

Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 08:40

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 08:40
Just a point to keep in mind. Not necessarily with flag poles but with tall whippy antennas.

Following a car back in the 80's when we had those tall 27Mhz antennas on the car. Some made their own from stainless steel. Very much like the HF ones that are around these days for 4WD HF.

Anyway, the antenna on the car in front of us, yep we had a "convoy", was mounted on the right hand side mudguard and as he went past a truck it bent over and actually hit the side of the truck and broke off. Okay No damage to the truck but the damned antenna nearly wiped us out as it flew past.

Just watch those tall whippy things people. That's all.

Phil
0
FollowupID: 807877

Reply By: Michael ( Moss Vale NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:22

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:22
Beatit! I hope you don't use that flag in aircraft flight corridors!! :) Michael
Patrol 4.2TDi 2003

Retired 2016 and now Out and About!

There's time to rest when you're dead,
Get out and do something instead!

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

AnswerID: 525766

Reply By: equinox - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:47

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:47
Gee John, I thought WA was the nanny state :-)

Next they will be grading the sand dune crossings flat!!!


Looking for adventure.
In whatever comes our way.
"Outback Yonder"


Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Blog  Send Message

AnswerID: 525768

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 21:10

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 21:10
Have read the odd complaint on various forums over the years about the French Line or the CSR even the Anne Beadell not being graded often enough :)

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 807776

Reply By: Member - Outback Gazz - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:57

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 20:57
G'day John

More than happy to and have always had a sand flag on my vehicles when I take my guests across the desert ( I own and run an outback 4wd and motorcycle tour company ) but no way in the world will I be putting a 3.5 metre spear on my bike when I ride the desert next - doesn't matter if it's plastic, fibreglass, conduit, carbon fibre or anything else !!!

I realise you only put the link up so no arguments with you but I will happily pay a fine to the revenue collectors ( they're the people that are concerned about our safety ) before I mount a spear !


Happy and safe travelling

Gazz
AnswerID: 525769

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 21:14

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 21:14
With respect Gazz, motorbikes are at the highest risk catagory of becoming a new ornament to the bullbar whilst cresting dunes.
Can't be seen & traveling at high speed, not a good combination.

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 807777

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 22:32

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 22:32
Its positively dangerous on a bike Gazz , no way would I do that at 3.5m it sounds like you , like me have ridden the place and know what a positively stupid idea it is.

A short flag that doesn't destablize the bike would gain some support, as would hi-vis clothing.

Visibilty is important but none of these people seems to understand the unintended consequences, and probably think a bike creeps along the track vertically, whereas a bike by its nature has to lean sometimes which puts a 3.5m high spear at an angle that can hit bushes and embankments not even taking into account the spears additional bending.

Do they even understand the mounting forces and destabilizing forces imparted to a bike frame !

Next they will be asking bikes to put on better mufflers so as to not disturb the Camels and guarantee that no car driver will hear the bike coming.

Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 807781

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 23:00

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 23:00
Gazz, I'm not a motorcycle rider so not familiar with the dynamics but it did seem a bit odd to me to lumber one with a 3.5m flagpole! I would imagine that it takes all your skill to stay upright without having that waving around above you.

Having said that, one of my concerns when tackling dunes in the Troopy is encountering a bike at the crest. Seen plenty of bikes in the Simpson but not at a crest thank goodness. I put my trust in my good mast & flag and hope that a bike rider will see it in time to take evasive action. That and the fact that my style is to roll over the crest at low speed.
Hopefully a bike can take faster avoidance than my Troopy.

So I understand your position on this.

Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 807783

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:16

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:16
I've never understood why motorbikes seem to be exempt from noise laws, having to obey road signage & to keep inside double white lines, maybe someone will enlighten me one day!

0
FollowupID: 807793

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:22

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:22
Hi Shaker as you could imagine , they are not exempt from noise laws but some make it worse with exhaust mods.

But an appropriate amount of noise from a bike is a saftey factor as you can hear them coming before you see a flag - works well in the desert where cars should be going slow and not making much noise so long as car driver doesn't have loud music on.

They are now discovering the advantage of some noise from cars after accidents caused by people not hearing silent electric cars !.
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

1
FollowupID: 807795

Follow Up By: Echucan Bob - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:38

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:38
Shaker, they appear to be exempt for several reasons:

1. They have excellent relations with police at a high level. At least in Victoria, some police were tipping off gangs before raids.

2. Police are too scared to go near them.

3. Police are too busy going for the low hanging fruit to worry about dealing with members of unpleasant criminal gangs.

Bob
0
FollowupID: 807797

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:43

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 08:43
G'day Shaker

The topic is about sand flags.

I have been travelling across the Simpson Desert for 25 years and have yet to see road signage and the double white lines and I have been on every track and in every direction !

Got any Pics so I know what to look for when I'm there in a few months time ?


Cheers Shaker


Gazz

0
FollowupID: 807798

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:26

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 11:26
Hi Gaz,

We have had a few bikes come through with a small 1m pole & flag attached to their backpack.

I'd think headlights on would be more relevant for motorbikes, as well as people actually looking outside their vehicles when travelling across the Simpson.

Are you coming through this season?



0
FollowupID: 807804

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 13:48

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 13:48
G'day Jeff

Good to hear from you !

Coming up your way in a few months - just a private trip with a few mates to try out their new cars and bikes and get away from their missus for a while! I won't be bringing any of those - I best make this politically correct - "crazy" Japanese with me though ! Wait til I see you and tell you about how the trip went after we left Mt Dare - funny funny people ! One of them has done the Dakar 5 times and the Australian Safari 8 times and just out of Katherine he wanted to drive down an embankment about 50 metres to get footage of him crossing a river in the Toyota - well, after telling him no less than ten times not to go down there as he will never get back up he said "I'm 5 time Daker driver" drove straight down and bogged the Cruiser in the river - very interesting recovery exercise to get him back up to the top with the dumb Aussie - me !!

Look forward to catching up, having a beverage and hearing some of your recovery stories !

All the best

Gazz

0
FollowupID: 807814

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 14:23

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 14:23
G'day John and Allan

Yes I understand your concerns about the bikes - but as you both know there are people that ruin it for others whether they be on a bike or in a 4wd. The riders on my trips are fully briefed on the do's and dont's of crossing the desert - pretty much number one of the rules is to throttle off when approaching a crest and go no faster than walking pace - look for oncoming vehicles first, check the downhill track for ruts, washouts, obsticles etc second, then start enjoying your ride and always slow down when you see another vehicle coming your way even if you are on a claypan ! Has worked a treat so far.

What scares me the most in the desert is the novice 4wdriver with lots of money in his new Cruiser with all the bells and whistles who has absolutely no idea what he is doing !

It would be very intersesting to see how many bikes have actually become bullbar ornaments because if there was an official statistic I would bet it to be very few ! At 40 kph at the top of a sand dune a bike. if had to, could stop dead still within it's length which is approx 6 feet - the ones that get hit would be by the inexperienced 4wdriver looking at the scenery not looking where he is going !

Remember guys - we share the same passion as you for the desert and outback travel - we just choose to do it on a bike !

Hopefully our paths will cross one day out there and we can share a drink and some great stories.

All the best

Happy and safe travelling

Gazz


0
FollowupID: 807817

Follow Up By: Allan B (Member, SunCoast) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 14:50

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 14:50
Gazz,
Never had any incident with a bike, only had concern for the potential on dunes. I know of no incidents and as you say, "I would bet it to be very few".
I'm sure also that my greater risk is a V8 powered Cruiser using heaps of power and momentum coming over the top and with no effective flag.
I'm happy to share the tracks with you and I have a great respect for anyone who can straddle a bike for day-after-day on those tracks.
Cheers
Allan

Member
My Profile  My Blog  My Position  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 807818

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 15:37

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 15:37
Cheers for that Allan

Here's an article from the Advertiser in South Australia about a rescue on one of my trips across the desert back in 2000. One of the riders - a very very good rider started relaxing and looked to the left to see the scenery not 2 minutes before we were to stop and set up camp. He went over the bars and cracked 3 vertibrae in his neck. No speed involved, no oncoming traffic just complete lack of concentration and a rut he didn't see. I'm not good at copying pics etc so I hope this turns out - if not I will try again.

Cheers

Gazz



1
FollowupID: 807821

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 15:46

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 15:46
Allan

Seems to work for me if click on and open link.

Re: straddle a bike for day after day on those tracks
Mate - Hyperthetically speaking of course - if there were no cars in the desert and on the right bike with fuel drops along the way, I could leave Mt Dare after breakfast and be in Birdsville for a counter lunch and a well deserved beer !

All the best

Gazz

0
FollowupID: 807822

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 15:52

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 15:52
Outback Gazz, the thread is about sand flags, as you pointed out to me earlier today!
0
FollowupID: 807823

Follow Up By: Member - Outback Gazz - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 16:19

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 16:19
Apologies to you Shaker - I got side tracked a bit - I'm not used to having a day off and spending time on forums - I got a bit excited !

Got those pics of the double white lines in the desert ????


Cheers mate and don't get too stressed

All the best

Gazz
0
FollowupID: 807826

Follow Up By: Shaker - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 17:53

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 17:53
Ha ha! I'll go through my albums.

0
FollowupID: 807833

Reply By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 23:05

Tuesday, Feb 04, 2014 at 23:05
If they make UHF's and proper radio protocols mandatory, that'd be something useful.
AnswerID: 525776

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 06:23

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 06:23
Here Here!

I wrote to fwdvic, even offering to develop a protocol in consultation with the various clubs and got zip.

There is no standard channel in most of Australia ( though there is on the Simpson), no reinforcement of the repeater rules. No protocol on use in dues, narrow tracks etc.



0
FollowupID: 807790

Follow Up By: PeteS - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 06:48

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 06:48
Ditto, and it's so basic easy and so basic.
0
FollowupID: 807791

Follow Up By: Member - Scott M (NSW) - Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 23:06

Wednesday, Feb 05, 2014 at 23:06
and do it for the Canning as well. Much better early warning than a sand flag IMHO.
0
FollowupID: 807864

Reply By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 11:14

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 11:14
If you have a sand flag that doesn't meet the new specifications, I wouldn't rush out with the credit card just yet.

I just got off the phone from SA resources and Lands and as an aside asked about the new sand flag rules. They said that it is a proposal only at this stage.

While anyone travelling on any dunes should of course have a proper sand flag, and if you don't already have one then it would make sense to buy one that as a minimum meets the specs in the 4wd Aust web site, if you have a decent one already that isn't 3.5m off the ground then it seems premature to buy a new one.
AnswerID: 525833

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 13:35

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 13:35
G'day Boobook,

I think that the main thing with the new sand flag proposal is the need to make them mandatory, there have been way too many people crossing the Simpson Desert with either no sand flag at all or all sorts of makeshift things that you just cannot see.

When I was asked for my input, one of the main things that I stressed, apart from everyone having a decent sand flag is that I think that headlights on should be mandatory as well.

I will see a vehicles headlight from 3 kms away, whereas I will only spot a sand flag from a couple of hundred meters.

Motorbikes are a whole other headache that I put in the too hard basket, we've been getting calls from motorbike riders already asking where they stand!

0
FollowupID: 807904

Follow Up By: prado 01 - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 13:52

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 13:52
Agree with the lights which should extend to the highway.
Are you able to say who asked for your input as I reckon everyone would like to know where the 4wd mob get their info from sometimes. No mention of this proposal on any govt. site that I can see.
Whatever we'll continue to use our flag which is 4m high and shove something frilly and bright up top.
Cheers
0
FollowupID: 807908

Follow Up By: Member - Boobook - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:49

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 14:49
I'm not sure why 4wd Australia aren't pushing for these things ( maybe they are). The flag rule will be great if and when it comes in.

Sand or mountainous tracks, there is often short notice of people coming the other way. Headlights, flags and UHF are all tools to singnal that you are coming.

My real bugbear is UHF's.

Lots get one as one of the first 4wd accessories which is great. But there is insufficient and inconsistent information on their use and they only have a fraction of their real value.

What channel should I use in the High country? - take your pick from about 70 channels. Even if you are on the same frequency people rarely announce their presence.

Then even when there are designated channels, like Ch 10 on the Simpson, people use it as their intra convoy chat channel. Then there are those that don't get them at all.

A code of practice for all of the above would be great.


0
FollowupID: 807915

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 17:28

Thursday, Feb 06, 2014 at 17:28
Prado 01,

The Department of Environment, Water & Natural Recourses asked for our input in the middle of last year, so not really a new development.

Boobook,

Having the supposedly dedicated UHF channel 10 for the Simpson Desert is good in theory, but in practice it only works intermittently, I much prefer to look, listen & watch out for other travelers.

People tend to be so wrapped up in their own adventure that they sometimes forget that there are other people out there.

I've been returning from a recovery & saw headlight shine approx. 3 ks away, so pulled up for a break & waited for them to get to me. (Yes I do call ahead every couple of dunes on ch10, as well as have the UHF on open scan).

While waiting I sat & listened to their radio chatter, & there was barely breathing space between comments.

I was in the cruiser, with headlights on & sand flag up, but they didn't see me until they came over the dune in front of me, I can only assume severe myopia on their part!


0
FollowupID: 807933

Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Tuesday, Mar 04, 2014 at 12:14

Tuesday, Mar 04, 2014 at 12:14
Recently got my Desert Parks pass a week ago for late April crossing, and noticed no mention of the proposed new sand flag rule . . . I had seen the Four Wheel Drive Aust website notice quite a few weeks ago, and was expecting something in the info, so I emailed them to confirm.

The reply received last week was . . .
"In regards to your email regarding the flags, I have been told that it will be mandatory for all vehicles to have one but we have not been told officially as yet!
So my best advice is to have all vehicles fitted with one just in case you are stuck in the Desert when it does become mandatory."

Not sure they could actually fine anyone before it gets put into at least an amendment sheet in the pass info packs, maybe a warning.

That said, we always use a flag in dunes, be it outback, Vic Desert parks, or down the SE Limestone Coast dune tracks.
Common sense stuff, and has saved me having a head on once down near Robe.

A few in our group may not have a flag, but ifthey don't wish to fit one for whatever reason, they would be placed well in the middle of the pack.

The UHF use is critical too, both calling ch 10 often (at least every second dune) and scanning on hand held for other chatter.
As soon as you hear it, you know you're pretty close.

The bugga of it is though, that many don't reply to a call apparently, as reported by many doing the crossing.
Maybe they just don't know how to respond or they think they're not part of the conversation, who knows ?
0
FollowupID: 810060

Reply By: TowJackar - Monday, Mar 03, 2014 at 21:32

Monday, Mar 03, 2014 at 21:32
I'm a newbie to this 4WD caper, but I was planning to take my 4JX1 Jackaroo into the Simpson Desert this April with 6 other vehicles.

I know, a big ask having to rescue the 6 other vehicles lol

Anyway this Sand Flag stuff. I have a 1.5m pole when attached to my Rhino AT1510 would be 3.5m off the deck, but that isn't good enough now, it has to be 2m above the vehicle minimum. How come when 3.5m off the deck is acceptable when not mounted on the roof.

I have the phone number for the guy that made these decisions at Port Augusta and I'm calling him in the morning.

The extra cost at this time to comply, might be the diference between going and not.

Cheers,

Dennis
AnswerID: 527605

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Monday, Mar 03, 2014 at 21:50

Monday, Mar 03, 2014 at 21:50
The height difference is likely because the roof rack mounting is further to the rear, hence lower than the bullbar on approach.
It therefore needs to be higher to equate to something like the height of the front mounted flag going up a dune.

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 810035

Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Tuesday, Mar 04, 2014 at 12:35

Tuesday, Mar 04, 2014 at 12:35
Yes, very much so, as with a diagram I did a while ago to confirm just how much more visible a flag is when placed on the front on a bull bar, rather than a roof rack.



Even if that roof flag was the same height as the front bullbar, it still wouldn't be seen as early.
0
FollowupID: 810062

Reply By: Ozrover - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 17:51

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 17:51
Update on Sand Flag Requirements for the Simpson Desert - Motorbikes are now exempt, but must have headlight on.

SAFETY FLAG REQUIREMENT

All vehicles must be fitted with a Safety flag as detailed below when travelling in the Simpson Desert Conservation Park, or Simpson Desert Regional Reserve.



Flag:

Minimum 300mm wide by 290mm high.

Made of Fluorescent materials, Red-Orange or Lime-Yellow in colour.



Vehicles:

With Front Bullbar - Flag pole attached to the bulbar, with top of the flag a minimum 3.5 metres from the ground.

Without Front Bullbar - Flag pole attached via bracket at the front of the vehicle, with top of the flag a minimum 3.5 metres from the ground; alternatively Flag pole attached to the front of the roof rack, with top of the flag a minimum 2 metres from the roof of vehicle.



Motorbikes:

Safety flag currently exempt however headlights must be kept on at all times during travel.



With the assistance of feedback from interest groups and members of the public crossing the desert plus Outback staff, we will monitor the effectiveness of these new measures and see if we can strengthen motorbike requirements.



Regards,

Tony Magor
District Manager Outback

AnswerID: 527774

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:06

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:06
I assume motorbikes accessing the Simpson must be registered for road use and would have a headlight, as opposed to a trail bike?

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 810234

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:16

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:16
All vehicles crossing the Simpson Desert must be registered.

How else would they get a Desert Parks Pass?

The last time I looked you must have working headlights to register any motor vehicle in Australia...

0
FollowupID: 810236

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:34

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:34
Somehow I doubt every bike would have its own Desert Parks Pass.
An example would be a vehicle that tows say three bikes up on a trailer and they then ride across with the vehicle following for backup and support.
Under that basis they would require four passes, one for the car and one for each bike.

VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 810238

Follow Up By: Les PK Ranger - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:42

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 18:42
One pass for every vehicle is correct, so 3 bikes and a support vehicle = 4 passes.
0
FollowupID: 810239

Follow Up By: Member - John (Vic) - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 19:08

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 19:08
I just checked which I probably should have done in the first place, my apologies.

Bikes in Victoria used on public property require recreational registration which means lights etc, I assume SA and other states have the same sort of requirement.
And as said above, every vehicle requires a pass.

My thought process not being a bike rider was a trail bike without a headlight which appears can't be used on public land.




VKS737 - Mobile 6352 (Selcall 6352)

Lifetime Member
My Profile  My Position  Send Message
Classifieds: Water Tank 55 Litre

0
FollowupID: 810240

Follow Up By: Robin Miller - Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 20:20

Thursday, Mar 06, 2014 at 20:20
Looks like the world hasn't quite gone insane.

I'm all for reasonable saftey measures on our bikes, and as a sometimes motocross offical, the forces generated by a 3.5m flag on off-line bike could have been seriously destabilzing.
Robin Miller

Member
My Profile  Send Message

0
FollowupID: 810244

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Friday, Mar 07, 2014 at 10:06

Friday, Mar 07, 2014 at 10:06
Spot on Robin,

The DEWNR have been in consultation with various parties about the risks to motorbike riders, & haven't come up with a satisfactory solution yet.

Maybe a flashing LED on top of the riders helmet, most of them seem to have GoPro's mounted up there!

0
FollowupID: 810269

Reply By: Ozrover - Friday, Mar 07, 2014 at 10:37

Friday, Mar 07, 2014 at 10:37
DEWNR flier

DEWNR letter
AnswerID: 527813

Follow Up By: Ozrover - Friday, Mar 07, 2014 at 10:43

Friday, Mar 07, 2014 at 10:43
Hmmm... Didn't work.

Try this.





0
FollowupID: 810270

Sponsored Links

Popular Products (13)