Why saying "tyre pressure is most important" niggles me.
Submitted: Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 09:36
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Member - PJR (NSW)
A rant from Phil
Many times, maybe too many times, we get told to slow down and make sure you have the right tyre pressures. And that is where the advice, yes helpful advice, stops. Both important, true, but when was the last time that we were reminded to make sure that we had a fire extinguisher, a
first aid kit or even a spare set of fan belts.
Driving in remote and isolated areas is a complete package which includes the car, driver and environment, and don’t forget the passengers. The passengers who have to get out and help or even take over the driving. There isn't any special formula. There isn’t any magic key that if polished it will always get you through.
Take driving over sand dunes. Why stop at tyre pressure. What about a sand flag or radio. What about discussing the gears/revs combination. What about not driving in the raised edges in case there is a hidden stake waiting to
puncture a tyre.
No. There isn't any "special" part that needs more attention than the other.
We were actually talking about just this last night. There was a post just this morning about tyre pressure. I also do not do my own service or anything mechanical before I go. I get someone who is both experienced and qualified to do the final service and pre trek
check. I am too familiar with my car and liable to just skip something because it was “good last month”. I wouldn’t even change the oil before a trip for that reason. I get someone that I can trust to do it. And for something like the Simpson or high country drive it is done as far ahead as is sensible to allow time for any repairs.
NOTE: I am not attacking anyone in particular nor belittling ANY part of a trip preparation. I know all that good advice is given with the right intention. But I am getting a bit frustrated that all these other things are never mentioned. When was the last time you heard “survival kit” mentioned! What about a set of fan belts. And for some deserts when was there any mention of a pump action water sprayer.
This is why I say to people to do a 4WD course and also suggest that they join a 4WD club. And not just for the driver but for the wife, partner or navigator as
well, who may have to take over at some stage. You break your arm moving a tree out of the way. You can’t drive. Who do you call. NOT Ghost busters guys. Your wife, partner etc etc. Bloody Google wont help if your remote either.
Phil
Reply By: Ross M - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 09:53
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 09:53
I bought a box of common sense and used carefully it can last a long time. Hopefully the TIM TAM variety.
Perhaps some people haven't found the place which sell it and they use something else to decide their future.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 09:57
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 09:57
That's no good to me. I don't like Tim Tams.
Good on ya mate!!!!
Phil
FollowupID:
811701
Reply By: Wayne NSW - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 10:52
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 10:52
Phil,
All the points you raised are equally important, however adjusting speed and tyre pressure is something that can and should be done everyday on a trip.
An under bonnet
check in the morning should be included in your pack up and departure plan. Part of this, is to
check tyre pressure while the tyres are cold and adjust for the days drive.
You also said that having you vehicle checked before a trip by a someone you can trust is a good thing but also checking the essential fluids under the bonnet every morning on a trip is something that you as the driver should be able do. The most common, while doing our
driver training course under bonnet
check, fault I have come across is battery brackets that are loose. I bet that if everyone who reads this post goes out and checks the battery brackets, most would be loose.
Your last point about doing a 4wd course should have been the first one. A good course will cover all the points about how to drive your vehicle and also how and what to
check. Unfortunately most 4wd courses are done in one day and because of this a lot of safety checks are left out.
Wayne
AnswerID:
529057
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:19
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:19
No argument Wayne. It was not my aim to point out everything. You also missed things. What about
first aid kits and courses.
See what I mean. We can't be expected to name everything so it is encumbant upon us, when giving advice, to make reference to the fact that it is a "whole bunch of issues" that need to be addressed. Not as we tend to do just mention two things tyre pressure and racing to get there.
Hows this for a quick try: "Get your tyres pressures right but if aren't skilled in 4WD, desert/sand driving then get some experience or training before you go". Isn't that more responsible. Maybe not perfect because I don't have a "subject".
Yes. Maybe I should have put the club/training first but my aim was to show how negligent we could be in only mentioning one or to things.
Thanks for the response Wayne.
Phil
FollowupID:
811706
Reply By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:20
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:20
Hi Phil,
All the points you have raised are very valid for any trip, even relatively short ones. The longer and more remote the more "valid" and extensive the
check list becomes.
A simple tyre
puncture if it occurs during a trip to the local shopping center can be an inconvenience at most. Have that happen in a remote area and without an extra spare tyre or the means and knowledge to repair it could be a bit more than inconvenient. Keeping an eye on tyre pressures before and during a trip and adjusting to suit load and conditions is generally considered to be a very basic piece of information by those that are familiar with more remote travel. Also the accepted concept that reducing pressures should be accompanied by a reduction in speed. All very simple and basic to you, me and many reading this. Unfortunately not so basic to many others. Even a simple piece of advice like making sure your tyres have plenty of tread and of the right construction and pattern.
As a now thankfully retired mechanic/diesel fitter whatever and 4WD owner and user for more years than I care to think about I could take your expanded list, add to it, and create a post of if not biblical, then definitely mini series proportions.
As
Ross has alluded to I still haven't found a store that sells or a training organisation that instructs in that pretty rare commodity know as "common sense", but hey, if you got any spare, treasure it. Either before or during extended travels it's worth it's weight in gold.
Cheers
Pop
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:36
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 11:36
I haven't found one of those shops either Pop. Good one.
Yes tyre pressure adjustment is basic to a heaps, but isn't it just as important to be in the right gear at the right time? Why are tyre pressures apparently more important. They aren't. We are making them sound as if they are and if you don't do this you will die!
I thought about starting a thread where people were only allowed to respond with ONE DETAIL/ITEM to be covered for a remote trip of a few weeks. You would have to read all the previous posts and then find something that had not been mentioned before and add that to the list. eg: for desert travel.
Can you imagine the list. It could go on and on. But I will bet you that everyone of us would secretly (we have our ego's) say "Hmm that's a good one". I bet you.
But didn't bother because people are lazy and we would get heaps of tyre pressure posts.
Thanks for the response.
Phil
FollowupID:
811708
Follow Up By: pop2jocem - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:03
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:03
Actually not a bad idea Phil, as you said anyone could add an item as long as it was not already mentioned. Maybe also a suggestion as to a method of getting around the problem it if parts, tools and a bit nous is missing.
Are you sure you haven't located on of those shops and are keeping it to yourself in case the stock is limited. (;-))
Cheers
Pop
FollowupID:
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Reply By: Mick O - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:12
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:12
Phil, you raise some interesting and valid points however you need to remember that in most cases on a
forum, people are only seeking specific information. They only want information about tyre pressures in a desert for example.
If that’s what they want, they don’t want to be weighed down with other information that may be of no value to them (it may
well be on value but it’s not what THEY want to know at that time and in far too many cases, trying to impart information that you might think they want (I use a universal “you” there and not “you” specifically ;-) can create issues.
If they want to know more, they’ll ask.
There is already much of the information you mention included on the EO site as a suite of comprehensive articles all written by learned and experienced contributors to the site.
Hey, you could always write a blog or an article yourself. The site welcomes the contributions.
Cheers Mick
AnswerID:
529060
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:17
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:17
What if they go to a club and come across something they have never even thought of before. Wouldn't that be better.
What if they don't know what to ask. Where do they find out what to ask? Google won't tell then.
They need education or schooling or training, whatever label you want to put on it, and not from the school of hard knocks. And that is the idea that we should give them. Sure answer their question but let them, there know that there is more to it than just pointing the nose of the car at a sand
hill.
I disagree about "most cases on a
forum, people are only seeking specific information". For acmping at ABCDEF National Park. Yes. But for the ones that ask; "Which road is the best up on Cape York" I would say they need moire than just a tracks name. They need to know that their car will make it. They need to know how to swim it. What about a water bra. There are more things they need to know. But they don't ask because they have never heard of a water bra!!
And besides a
forum is a place where any topic under the rules of the
forum is allowed to be discussed, bisected and then examined. It is a tool to give the members of the
forum a place to chat or talk about topics in any way they wish provided a set of social rules are followed.
It's not just a Q&A site.
I don't like
blogs myself. I would rather meet and talk, all-be-it on the internet.
Phil
FollowupID:
811716
Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:45
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:45
..Also keep in mind the context in which the word "most" is used when referring to tyre pressures. I would take it as meaning "very" important NOT as "the number one thing" on the list of "important" things..but I is not much good at English speaking so could be miss taken.
Cheers
Greg
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 14:00
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 14:00
Please lets not go down that track mate. My wife tell me that I always forget to do such and such. I forgot one day a few years ago and she still thinks that I don't do such and such. I don't but I only miss a few times. But to her I never do it.
Context - Your right mate. But I will let that one slide and not bring it up with her.
Hi Greg.
PS Whens the move?
FollowupID:
811723
Follow Up By: The Explorer - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 14:21
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 14:21
No worries.
Not moving anywhere ??
Cheers
Greg
| I sent one final shout after him to stick to the track, to which he replied “All right,” That was the last ever seen of Gibson - E Giles 23 April 1874 Lifetime Member
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 14:55
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 14:55
My mistake
FollowupID:
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Reply By: BrisVegas - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:59
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 12:59
As a newbie to this site, I just had a quick search through the articles and couldn't see anything about tyre pressures.
I'd be interested to hear suggestions from the experts on what's a good pressure to run 265/75R16 Bridgestone D694 LT tyres on rough dirt roads and patchy bitumen, typical of outback roads and tracks. 2002 NM Pajero 2.8 diesel, usually pretty
well loaded up for touring.
In the past I've run
mine at 30psi when on the dirt, down from 40psi on good bitumen. Should I go down further than that or should I go up a bit to 35psi?
Cheers in advance.
AnswerID:
529068
Follow Up By: Wayne NSW - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:33
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:33
BrisVegas,
Tyre Pressure Guide
Bitumen 32-38 psi
Sand 18-26 psi
Fast/Smooth Gravel 32-36 psi
Slow/Rough Gravel 26-32 psi
Rocky Gravel/
Rock 22-28 psi
Mud 22-28 psi
Wayne
FollowupID:
811717
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:37
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:37
Welcome mate. A bit OT but we shall see if anyone complains. I just entered "tyre pressure" into the search window and got heaps of hits with more then 300 on the
forum alone.
A bloke I met once at
Oodnadatta said that for rough dirt roads for a large 4WD it's 20 front and 26 rear. That may do yours. However I don't know your tyres so I do not know what the side wall is like and can't specifically say what you personally should use. But 30 seems too high to me. You did say road so I have looked at sand, mud, snow or rocky tracks. They can all be different depending on the track, the tyres, the weight of the car front and rear, the weather and more that I can't think of at the moment.
Try the search again with my text then click on
forum and you will see
forum responses by the hundreds with a reference to "tyre pressures".
That being said you may want to have a look at what other users of those tyres set them to for other vehicles and terrains. I don't know your background so I would just say that there is more to driving on rough roads than just tyre pressure. If you want know more ask or try some 4wd training. Please I am not truying to tell you to suck eggs. Okay?
Have a good one
Phil
FollowupID:
811718
Follow Up By: BrisVegas - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 15:10
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 15:10
Cheers Phil. I was looking directly in the articles, not the
forum, so I was off on the wrong track from the start. newbie mistake, sorry.
20 front and 26 rear is definitely lower than I'd have guessed, so I'll do some more reading.
FollowupID:
811738
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 16:55
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 16:55
I did the same thing until I learnt how to read that table. That's a good page to read.
Yes That page is there. It would be so easy to say to search or "Google is your friend". But that's not my way. I prefer the human touch. And Google is definitely not my friend.
I personally feel that it is impolite, not wrong mind you, just impolite to say those things
Have a good day mate
Phil
FollowupID:
811751
Reply By: OBJ - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:31
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:31
Stuffed if I know what you went looking for. I entered "tyre presssures' into the Search box here on the
forum and got more than 5 pages of entries. Enough to keep you entertained for days :)
I'm not game to enter "what is the best fridge" in case my computer explodes.
OBJ
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:38
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 13:38
Good on you OBJ. Miele is the best but they don't make an extension cord long enough.
Phil
FollowupID:
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Reply By: The Landy - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 15:39
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 15:39
For those with an interest there is plenty of information available on “expedition planning” on the internet.
They may not specifically relate to a “four-wheel drive” expedition but it does give many pointers as to what you should be thinking about when undertaking remote area touring.
A good question to always ask yourself at the planning stage is “am I fit enough to undertake this trip”. And that isn’t to say just physical condition, but opens the door to a whole range of considerations, such as expertise, knowledge etc.
It might be having a good knowledge of tyre pressure, first-aid, weather interpretation.
They key is to have a frame-work under which you can plan a trip that encompasses things to think about that ensure a safe and successful trip.
AnswerID:
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Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 17:08
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 17:08
Too true Landy.
However there are some people who really should do the courses because they learn much better with a hands on approach. Our club has one specific trip each year as a navigational exercise. You go through the whole shebang from initial concept to locating the start, finish and selecting the best route from many options. No internet yet. Just paper maps, books and glossies.
And then you get to fire up the computer or what ever your toy of choice is and get down to some serious route planning and track definition. Finally the next day it's into the cars and off we go and hopefully all get to the end. We haven't lost any to date. That must be good.
Some people can only learn this way. Others can read a book and learn that way. I can not. Even though I went tertiary with Applied Mathematics I can not learn by book alone. No way! Strange isn't it! An excellent weekend.
I think it has something to do with needing to use other sense/s to actually assimilate it. To burn it in - so to speak. Touch, smell and bumping your head on the laptop.
Human nature. And then some never learn!!!!
Phil
FollowupID:
811757
Follow Up By: equinox - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 21:54
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 21:54
Hi Phil,
I agree with Landy, and Mick O above.
You might have the best 4wd set up in the your street (oh I wish) however you need to know how to use the set up.
Mental preparedness (or fitness as I think Landy is alluding too) is a one of the necessities too. No point stressing out when you can get to your destination with your rig and the way it is set up, but are too scared to go there.
Mick O is right though, if someones asks a question they are usually after specifics, they are not asking for a Thesis on remote travel, though it wouldn't be off topic here to offer advice if you think they need it. Many of the posts here are on tyre pressures, if someone offered a question on "what do I need to have to plan, complete and enjoy a remote outback adventure", then I'm sure there will be many respondents offering their advice based on their own experiences.
I for one read most of the threads on here, and take note of the advice that is giving, I don't agree with all the advice however make my own judgement and work with that when I'm planning my next trip - there's always something more to learn.
Cheers
Alan
FollowupID:
811800
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 22:21
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 22:21
I think that 99% of those on this thread are correct. We just have to try and be aware of the skill set of the person asking the question. I got in a mess once because a user asked "Can I go to
Cape York?". The answer is really "Beats me. Can you drive etc etc". I questioned the use of the word "can" as opposed to "may" and started asking about skills and if he didn't have any them maybe the answer is no etc etc etc. Made a big mess of what I was trying to get at.
Everyone else was saying yes go right ahead you will be okay with that car. And so on. At no stage did anyone apart from idiotic me question him on his driving skills and physical capabilities.
I don't recall how it ended up because I gave up. He was
young and to me sounded unskilled.
But I will still be aware of giving bad advice to a novice and telling people something that they should already know.
Still it has been an interesting thread.
I wondered a while back what people would say about "what do I need to have to plan, complete and enjoy a remote outback adventure". In fact isn't that like what I said in post 811708.
Thanks for the post mate.
Phil
FollowupID:
811805
Follow Up By: The Landy - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:31
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:31
And one of the first things that should go into a "tool kit" for outback travel is a set of paper maps, compass, and the knowledge to use them...
Just thought I'd toss that in the mix, and I'm sure, Equinox, with your remote area travels this is in yours for sure.
All food for thought!
FollowupID:
811836
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:39
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:39
I even carry a spare potato peeler in the back drawers. I can't remember how many times that we have forgotten one or broken it.
Phil
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811838
Reply By: wizzer73 - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 16:14
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 16:14
Are you still insured if you are running say 25psi in your tyres and you have an accident on a gravel rd? Lets say the accident was caused by a tyre blowout and the vehicle rolled. If your tyres are lower then what the manufacturer recommends, then what happens?
wizzer
AnswerID:
529086
Follow Up By: The Landy - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 16:51
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 16:51
If the tyre is blown and no air in it, how will they know?
Just a thought ;)
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811750
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 18:17
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 18:17
I personally don't consider it. I would rather decrease the risk of not even getting to the other end than worry about insurance.
But if it's going to take the hire of a Chinook to get the car out I would think that they would want to find a way out of the contract. I would.
Phil
FollowupID:
811769
Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 19:26
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 19:26
This has been discussed so many times....
Your chances of getting punctures and blow outs are much reduced with lower pressures on gravel and sand, provided, and it is a very important provided, that you speed is also reduced according to the tyre pressure.
Those figures that the maker gives are recommendations for pressures at highway speeds and have nothing to do with the sorts of issues when driving in soft sand etc. What destroys a tyre is heat. The more flex in the tyre at higher speeds, the more heat generated within the tyre, so you will note that tyre pressures go up for heavier loads at higher speeds.
FollowupID:
811774
Follow Up By: Member - Brad S7 - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 19:44
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 19:44
If the tyre fails due to low pressure and over heating, they can tell by the colour of the tyre case. Any tyre that has been over heated will a have blue colour throughout the tread and inside the case itself, it's the same if the tyre has been doing burn outs.
Regards
FollowupID:
811777
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:28
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:28
Please read all this post and don't think that I am picking on you two.
You can go and talk about tyre pressures but that has nothing to do with the point of this thread. By JUST talking about tyre pressures we could be held liable by a novice who goes for a drive at your tyre pressures and doesn't take any water to drink when he runs out of fuel. That's because you stressed the high importance of tyre pressures and this novice took you to be saying that if he gets his tyres right the all the rest is not important.
I do not recall any of the learned people on this site saying that tyre pressurers are not important. We are saying that the whole 4wd skill set is paramount.
Personally I am saying that the tyre pressure gurus and the speed kills group appear to forget that fact. At least they don't seem to mention it. And in my mind that is negligent.
A bloke says to the
young city fella standing next to him: "Here hold this gun and don't drop it in the mud. We don't want it to get clogged up do we." The city fella looks down the barrel and bang. I forgot to tell him it is loaded. I just effectively killed him.
Phil
FollowupID:
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Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:49
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:49
Your heading says "...tyre pressures are most important..' Why does that niggle? They are indeed "most important". This however is different to "THE most important..." I would never say (and I have never seen, here or anywhere else) anyone say tyre pressure is "THE most important." On the other hand, drive too quickly on tyres that are too low a pressure and it will very fast become "THE most important." It's a bit like a chain, any weakest link will break it and it doesn't matter too much which the link it is when something goes belly up. Cars are complex things and many vehicle components or elements of the driving process are critical.
Cheers
FollowupID:
811791
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:57
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:57
If you read the heading again you will see that I am referring to the whole phrase between the quotes. Not just the tyre pressures.
This is about the continuous lack of attention to things other than tyre pressures and the negligence we show in not warning novices that the gun is loaded, that tyres pressures are just a small part of the whole.
Is it clearer now?
Phil
FollowupID:
811793
Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 21:11
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 21:11
I think this is a straw man argument. You have set up a straw man and then proceeded to knock it down. I have never ever, here or anywhere else, seen anyone argue that "tyre pressures are THE most important" but that is the way you are interpreting your own quote and then going on to argue that many other factors are important. I am sure we all agree, ie we think that tyre pressures are most important, along with many other factors, any one of which has the capacity to become THE most important in a particular situation.
FollowupID:
811798
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 22:08
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 22:08
Mate
Get with it. Your very first sentence showed that you were off topic. Yet you still can't see why.
Phil
FollowupID:
811804
Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:42
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:42
You mean you only read the first sentence of the first post? Perhaps you might like to read the rest of what was said???
FollowupID:
811840
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:59
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 08:59
What a stupid comment. Of course I read the rest. Not very interesting though as you only talked about tyre pressures and tyre pressure issues. Not the topic.
The topic isn't and never was tyre pressures.
Others understood that and I can't understand why you don't. We would like to hear your opinion as
well.
Phil
FollowupID:
811843
Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 09:29
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 09:29
This is more of a discussion about literacy. You set up what is known as "a straw man argument" more or less claiming that those who regarded tyre pressure as "most important" were annoying because they ignored everything else that is important. No body disagrees, it is just that I have never seen anybody make such a claim. You have confused "most important" with "the most important". I initially added a bit to explain that it isn't just a matter of tyre pressure but the relationship between tyre pressure and speed. This is certainly "most important" but I never, ever would claim that this is the be all and end all of discussion on 4wd safety and preparedness and that it is "the most important" (and yet again, I have never seen anyone else make this claim either). But your post leaps to the assumption that that is what many people say!
I think Bantam's comments explain the position nicely and I'll leave this one there.
FollowupID:
811847
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:34
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:34
Okay I see what you are saying. However I still feel that you don't understand what I started out with.
Try changing the heading to "Why saying 'don,'t rush' niggles me". What I am trying to talk about is not a single item like speed or tyre pressure. I am saying that we should be aware that there is a role to be played when answering a question by a novice. Maybe some times we should go further and say that it is a whole package. But not at the expense of telling people to "suck eggs".
My health, not tyre pressures, is our most important issue and we have addressed that. And it can be different depending on where you go. Tyre pressure is just a part of the daily and running checks that we carry out.
I don't understand the statement "straw man argument". Maybe that is the problem here? I never read nor saw Alice in Wonderland. Is that a reference to a movie thing etc?
Anyway. I think that I have bored you to death enough and that I may just give it a miss. fair enough. We can't find common ground.
Phil
FollowupID:
811859
Follow Up By: Member - Mfewster(SA) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:53
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 10:53
OK Phil
A "Straw Man Argument" is a term used in debating, rhetoric and formal logic. It is a technique whereby one claims the opposition said or believe something and then you demolish their argument. Except that the position you claim they have doesn't really exist. It is a "straw man" argument because their is no substance to the view that you are attributing to the other person.
I don't think we are disagreeing at all on the importance of all those other checks.
Regards
Mike
FollowupID:
811862
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:11
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 11:11
Not one of them.
Cheers.
Phil
FollowupID:
811863
Reply By: Idler Chris - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:55
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 20:55
Hi Phil, if you ever see an old bloke in a 100 series with a Hannibal RTT probably better to go the other way. If we ever met we would spend a long time solving the problems of the world, patting each other on the back, constantly agreeing with each other, and knocking the odd green can, that we would miss part of our holiday. But it would be fun though.
AnswerID:
529113
Follow Up By: Idler Chris - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 21:05
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 21:05
odd green can "off"
FollowupID:
811795
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 22:06
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 22:06
Chris. We could start with a very old 20+ year old stone jar of Brown Brothers Milawa. You willing to "test" it??
I only wish that I was in this mood more often. But after chemo I really stuff up.
Take care mate and drop in anytime.
Phil
FollowupID:
811803
Reply By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 23:49
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 23:49
I think tyre pressures are imporatant.....because they are an indicator of knoweledge and preparedness.
A person who does not know about the benifits of tyre pressure reduction is likley to now very little else.
A person who has a simplistic view will likewise only be partly informed about other issues.
Some one who has a good understanding of tyre pressure, and can mount a well reasoned arguemnt about the issue, is likely to be well informed about other matters.
The same goes for care and diligence.
One who pays attention to their tyre pressures and adjusts them every time it is needed, is more likely to be otherwise carefull and diligent.
Its like police inspecting cars....they look at the tyres....the type and condition of the tyres is a fair indfication of the rest of the car and the driver's attitude.
cheers
AnswerID:
529134
Follow Up By: The Bantam - Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 23:51
Tuesday, Mar 25, 2014 at 23:51
Of all the things that matter, tyres are the easiest & cheapest thing to keep right.
cheers
FollowupID:
811816
Reply By: Kumunara (NT) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 16:03
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 16:03
Phil
A good rant. You are
spot on in that everyone, including the trouble and strife, should do a 4WD Course and thoroughly check the vehicle and equipment.
You did mention a
first aid kit but I would also suggest everyone do a
First Aid Course.
Regards
Tjilpi
AnswerID:
529176
Follow Up By: Member - PJR (NSW) - Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 16:09
Wednesday, Mar 26, 2014 at 16:09
The St Johns ambulance runs one for us. You have to pay but so what. I should also mention that the doctors only approved my trip if I got a satellite phone. Yep got one.
Mate I have a checklist that has grown to three A4 pages long. And that does not include the kitchen and cooking stuff.
You could go on adfinitum, couldn't you. To be really self sufficient is no mean task.
Catchya
Phil
PS: Just booking out last night in Alice before the Canning drive. Stick that in ya pipe and smoke it. I have been waiting to do this for years. And finally got the medical stuff good enough for a conditional yes.
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